Step-deck, RGN DD or what?

[Musicman]

I’ve been considering adding a trailer and I think that with regulations being what they are, I want to move into a niche where the number of miles you drive is less important than what it is in the reefer segment of the market we’re in now. I really don’t want to go back to enclosed auto transport, so that leaves Step Deck or DD RGN. I readily admit that in all the areas of trucking, I have the least experience with these segments of the market. Years ago I drove a flatbed for the water and sewer division of Hughes Supply, but that’s as close to RGN or step deck as I’ve ever come. I have some experience in securing equipment with chains and binders and have lots of experience strapping all kinds of loads. I’m leaning toward RGN because of the close proximity of equipment manufacturers to my residence, and I have little desire to be inconvenienced with tarping loads.

I know I’m taking a risk by moving into something completely unknown to me, but I’m pretty sure I can fumble my way through with cash on hand and with the sagacious advice I know I will get from experts here on CAD.

My first set of questions is about equipment options. I have a ’06 Pete 387 with a 565HP / 1850 ft*lb ISX (EGR programming hacked out) with 12k front and 36k rears running on LP 22.5 tires. Obviously I’m not set up for doing any serious heavy hauling, but would it still be worth buying a DD RGN with a flip up third axle? What would my max gross be in that situation? What about an expandable RGN? They are a bit pricier and without trading in my reefer (which I want to keep for now because it’s paid for and valued at about $26k) I would have to get a little financing to swing the $70k+ price tag they carry. I’m thinking the best way to go would be with something like the following I’ve seen for sale for $46k:

“Fontaine Double Drop Mechanical Detachable with 29’ 4” in the well. Versatile trailer with very low deck height. 10’ top deck and rear 9-10’ over the wheels. Trailer comes with weigh scale and 2 position ride height. 40 ton capacity”

With the above trailer, I could not only haul equipment but even a good deal of flatbed stuff, couldn’t I? It doesn’t have the third axle, but would I really need it, at least fumbling around in the dark like I will be doing at first?

[allan5oh]

Wow where do I start?

Doing RGN work is a lot more serious than step deck. You have heavy machinery most of the time, wide loads, high loads, etc.. For that reason I'd suggest pulling a step deck. As far as the equipment manufacturers, that's only good if you can get in on their freight. Some manufacturers have exclusive contracts with certain carriers. So if you can't haul their freight, what's the point? Tarping loads isn't all that bad. A lot of times these loads pay well.

The 36k rears could hinder you. Theoretically you're allowed to permit 20k on each axle and 12k on the steers. That would be 112k. However since your drives are only 36k that would be 108k. But I'm guessing your drives will always be at the limit compared to the trailer. So you might be able to gross 100k, depending on how it is loaded. Remember with RGN's you can't really move the freight around. RGN's don't really haul general freight. I've seen it very rarely. Mostly lumber and hay, which you wouldn't want to haul anyways. RGN's are very heavy. There's guys here with heavy trucks that tare well over 40k with their trailer.

Look into XL specialized, my company uses them exclusively. Pretty sure they have the lowest deck. Make sure to get a deck on the front and the rear, just in case you need to load tires or other LTL with the load.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck.

[Musicman]

Wow where do I start?
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck.

Like I said, I know I'm clueless about RGN. Stepdeck I suppose I'd have a frame of reference for because I've done a bit of flatbedding in my past. A stepdeck is a heck of a lot closer to a flatbed than RGN, I know. Perhaps it would be easier and cheaper starting with a stepdeck .

That being said, any suggestions as to the ideal stepdeck setup? There's tons of that stuff in my area. Currently 3438 loads posted on Internet Truckstop picking up within 300 miles of my house. I'm not going to go out and buy a trailer tomorrow, but I would like to start looking and maybe be up and running after my first big produce payday wraps up at the end of April or so. I think I'd like to keep the reefer trailer and run it in the winter months.

[Musicman]

To better explain why I’m thinking of making such a huge jump…

It’s not that I’m not making money running the reefer we have. This year so far, we’re averaging about $1.72 all miles, about $1.85 loaded (averaging about 3,500 to 4,000 miles a week) and I’ve managed to pay off a 4 year $35k trailer loan in eight months. I’m simply fed up with fighting for rates with guys who can’t speak English (yes I know that sounds racist, but it is true nonetheless), don’t have a house payment and maybe even live in their trucks. My two “go to” produce brokers tell me that we’re getting their standard rate plus a few hundred whenever they can spare it, but they aren’t very optimistic about where the reefer and van industry is headed. Both these guys have been brokering freight as long as I’ve been alive and both are scared about where they see things are going. They say they spend all day making calls fighting with customers who tell them Total Quality Logistics quoted them 20% (or more) less than the their normal rate.

With the government’s ever increasing regulation, it just makes sense to make a move away from the “high mileage” segments of trucking.

[allan5oh]

You sound like me 3 years ago. Those are definitely good rates, but if they cannot be sustained I understand your concern. Our mileage contract right now pays about $1.65 for all miles, usually around $1.70 with all the extras in there. Just to give you an idea. I'm on revenue and I'm doing much better, but I do some LTL.

As far as a step deck you have to consider a number of things:

1) Do you travel to Canada? Then you'll need either a closed tandem, a max 72" spread, or a sliding axle
2) 2 or 3 axle? With 3 axle there's less worry about Canada
3) Do you travel to California? RGN's can get exemptions, step decks cannot. A lot of guys stick with 48 foot steps just for this reason
4) What are your customers needs? A regular step has about a 42" deck height, you can go to 34" with 17.5 tires but your cost goes way up
5) Do you want to do LTL? Then a 53 ft trailer is a must IMO. But this can make California difficult
6) Aluminum looks nicer and is lighter, but has a higher up front cost and the ride is not as nice as steel trailers

The other thing to consider is with a 34" deck height there could be clearance problems and no room for tool boxes. Not much worse than an RGN though. I've seen more than a few of those hung up on rail road tracks.

[Musicman]

You sound like me 3 years ago. Those are definitely good rates, but if they cannot be sustained I understand your concern. Our mileage contract right now pays about $1.65 for all miles, usually around $1.70 with all the extras in there. Just to give you an idea. I'm on revenue and I'm doing much better, but I do some LTL.

A little load board watching makes it look like stepdeck rates are about the same as reefer produce rates (in season rates, of course), but there is no reefer unit to maintain or feed, and much less risk of claims due to refused product. Just from the few loads that have rates posted, the simpler loads (no permits or tarps) look to be ranging from $2 to $2.50 depending on the lane. I will never go to Canada with any load, but I go to California now because I have a reefer and that is where the money is, usually. I wouldn't have any big desire to go to California if I didn’t need to for the money.

It looks like I’d be running a bit less miles with a bit less expenses and getting similar rates. All in all, I’m assuming that I’d see at least a small increase in NET income with somewhat less driving. One of the really interesting things is that there’s lots of stepdeck loads within 20 miles of my house. The prospect of not having to deadhead 100 to 200 miles from my house to get a decent paying load is certainly encouraging.

I was just looking at a trailer at truckpaper.com that looks to be pretty versatile. 53’, aluminum, air ride and a sliding CA-legal spread seems to have a lot of the bases covered.

2012 FONTAINE Infinity Drop Deck Drop Deck For Sale At TruckPaper.com

When I buy a trailer, though, it will probably be at auction. There’s no sense in putting some equipment dealer’s kids through college.

Of course, I plan on keeping the reefer to run in the winter months and for the two six week periods during the year where I can average $3.50 a mile with produce.

[allan5oh]

That's not all aluminum, it's a combination. The frame underneath is steel but the rub rails are aluminum. I imagine it would weigh around 11,500 lbs. You can get all aluminum steps around 9500 lbs or even lighter. That sliding axle adds around 400 lbs. Another thing is I greatly prefer sliding winches and lots of them. About 18-20 per side is optimal.

You'd be amazed how much freight you can load on these things. I went to a customer and they told me 7 pallets were going to take 30 feet. That would be one row straight down the middle. Instead they stacked it and staggered the rows. Ended up taking 13.5 feet. They could fit in a van, but no way you could stack and stagger them like that.

Here's a good trailer:

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsde...?OHID=2538561&

triaxle with 17.5's. I don't think it's a 2012 because I'm pretty sure it's been sitting there when I was looking for a trailer 3 years ago.

[Musicman]

Here's a good trailer:

2012 REITNOUER BIG BUBBA DROP W/35" DECK HEIGHT Drop Deck For Sale At TruckPaper.com

triaxle with 17.5's. I don't think it's a 2012 because I'm pretty sure it's been sitting there when I was looking for a trailer 3 years ago.

That is indeed one nice looking (and I imagine expensive) trailer. I wouldn’t mind financing the right trailer, but if I’m going to cash-flow one without trading in my reefer, I’d want to keep it under 40k, or lower, ideally. I’m also contemplating trading in the reefer, but it’s really hard deciding to get rid of a good piece of equipment that’s paid for. I don’t think I’ll do any worse with a step than with a reefer, so maybe I can talk myself into letting it go.

I was thinking I might opt for a lower deck for the added versatility. I know from my enclosed auto transport days that 17.5’s can be a cash vacuum, but maybe it won’t be so bad for me since I do my own tire work and get great prices from my local dealer.

What would be the advantage of the tri axle over an air slide spit axle? You mentioned that the slider would add 400 pounds, but I’m thinking a third axle must add about 1,200 lbs or more, right? My tractor is already on the heavy side (21,500 or so). As long as I’m not going to haul super heavy loads, wouldn’t the third axle be superfluous for me? I mean with a split, couldn’t I permit 86K if I needed to? What’s the likelihood that a noob stepdeck driver would be permitting loads at 106k lbs? From my short lived days as a flatbedder, I can definitely appreciate the need for as many sliding wenches as possible. I do plan on doing LTL, as long as I can make it worth my time.

[GMAN]

I have had a 53' step deck for several years. I prefer a wood and steel deck, even though it adds weight but offers more versatility. You won't be able to load some military loads with an aluminum trailer. My step deck weights about 13,200 pounds. Weight has rarely been a problem when it comes to loading the trailer. With the tractor that I usually keep with that trailer I can scale about 45,600. I have another track that I can only scale about 44,500 or 45,000 with the same trailer. I have a spread with a rear slider. I also have container locks. The container locks are a nice if you find a container with a good rate. The down side to wood is that you will need to treat it a couple of times a year to preserve the wood. I have 255/22.5 tires. There have been times when I would have liked to have the 17.5 tires, but for the most part it has not been a problem.

Before buying anything I would suggest that you think about what you want to haul. You will add weight with a third axle. Unless you have the work for it I am not sure that it is worth the added cost.

[allan5oh]

Third axle would be about 1500 lbs. It's not really worth it unless you're permitting the extra weight (112k). A 5 axle can permit to 92k, or in your case 88k. I'm thinking more along the lines of Canadian stuff when I talk about a third axle, and since you can't haul cross Canada freight the point is moot.

Also consider with the 17.5 tires you can dip into the big RGN freight, so that may be where it would be worth the third axle.

Your tractor at 21.5k is heavy. You'll probably add another 1000 lbs with the headache rack and gear at least. So a relatively light trailer should get you around 32k tare which is a good weight. GMAN's trailer would put you at about 35,700, and that is definitely pushing the scales.

[Musicman]

I have had a 53' step deck for several years. I prefer a wood and steel deck, even though it adds weight but offers more versatility. You won't be able to load some military loads with an aluminum trailer. My step deck weights about 13,200 pounds. Weight has rarely been a problem when it comes to loading the trailer. With the tractor that I usually keep with that trailer I can scale about 45,600. I have another track that I can only scale about 44,500 or 45,000 with the same trailer. I have a spread with a rear slider. I also have container locks. The container locks are a nice if you find a container with a good rate. The down side to wood is that you will need to treat it a couple of times a year to preserve the wood. I have 255/22.5 tires. There have been times when I would have liked to have the 17.5 tires, but for the most part it has not been a problem.

Before buying anything I would suggest that you think about what you want to haul. You will add weight with a third axle. Unless you have the work for it I am not sure that it is worth the added cost.

Not to discount anything alan5oh has typed, after all, I am seeking all the different points of view I can get, but that is my concern with the third axle. Being new to pulling a SD and not being sure what the heck my modus operandi will be, it seems like dragging (or even carrying) a third axle around would most likely be a waste. I like the idea of the sliding California legal spread because it adds a lot of versatility and convenience in scaling heavier loads not to mention the obvious ability to run California if the money is there. I think I am most likely to go with a sliding spread, but I’m still hung up on the deck height. Low pro 22.5s would be the most convenient, but having that extra eight to ten inches of height might also come in handy. Luckily, I’m not in any hurry to make this move. Buying a SD in October or November would probably be tantamount to suicide. I’m going to spend the next few months exploring my local shippers, as I know there are a few who ship SD fright and see what they require. I’ll also keep tabs on the load boards to see what the equipment requirements for the majority of the loads posted are.

Since I have my wife dispatching me, LTL should be quite profitable. I envision doing this much in the way I used to haul cars. Find a core load that pays well and then keep any empty spaces on the trailer as full as possible along the way. With cars, we had a Lamborghini and Lotus contract that paid pretty well, but we still always tried to fill a rack as soon as it was empty, even if it was a 40cpm junker. Which reminds me, I used to have a picture of me jumpstarting a Murcielago off of an old Charger. That was out behind the Shelby factory in North Las Vegas. They got the biggest kick out of that… but I digress.

[Musicman]

Third axle would be about 1500 lbs. It's not really worth it unless you're permitting the extra weight (112k). A 5 axle can permit to 92k, or in your case 88k. I'm thinking more along the lines of Canadian stuff when I talk about a third axle, and since you can't haul cross Canada freight the point is moot.

Also consider with the 17.5 tires you can dip into the big RGN freight, so that may be where it would be worth the third axle.

Your tractor at 21.5k is heavy. You'll probably add another 1000 lbs with the headache rack and gear at least. So a relatively light trailer should get you around 32k tare which is a good weight. GMAN's trailer would put you at about 35,700, and that is definitely pushing the scales.

So we have progress. The third axle argument has settled itself, at least for now. No Canada = no third axle. It’s not easy from what I’ve seen so far to even find a trailer being sold with 17.5’s. Still, those extra few inches of height availability could open a lot of freight to me that would otherwise be over-height with 22.5’s. I definitely have to put a lot of thought into that one. Hopefully, more folks will add their opinion over the next few months and I can make a decision with more points of view to draw from.

As for being heavy, I have twin 150 gallon tanks, an APU and everything but the kitchen sink in my truck. I’ve actually considered taking a fuel tank off, which would save over 1k pounds, but that would mean a lot more fuel stops.

[allan5oh]

Sounds like we have it narrowed:

- 48 foot with 10 foot spread, California legal and lighter
- 53 foot with rear slider, California and Canada legal with rear slid up, probably about 800 lbs heavier
- Choose between 17.5 and 22.5. This will take the most research

[YerDaddy]

"Sagacious" - good word!

So you're not buying the "more miles" pitch the interstate sweatshops are selling?

First thing I notice is your tractor is not designed for pulling an open platform trailer.

Look who's pulling tractors... TMC, Western Express, Maverick. You might be in the same boat you're in now. Just picking up the scraps that the rate cutters can't cover.

[GMAN]

Not to discount anything alan5oh has typed, after all, I am seeking all the different points of view I can get, but that is my concern with the third axle. Being new to pulling a SD and not being sure what the heck my modus operandi will be, it seems like dragging (or even carrying) a third axle around would most likely be a waste. I like the idea of the sliding California legal spread because it adds a lot of versatility and convenience in scaling heavier loads not to mention the obvious ability to run California if the money is there. I think I am most likely to go with a sliding spread, but I’m still hung up on the deck height. Low pro 22.5s would be the most convenient, but having that extra eight to ten inches of height might also come in handy. Luckily, I’m not in any hurry to make this move. Buying a SD in October or November would probably be tantamount to suicide. I’m going to spend the next few months exploring my local shippers, as I know there are a few who ship SD fright and see what they require. I’ll also keep tabs on the load boards to see what the equipment requirements for the majority of the loads posted are.

Since I have my wife dispatching me, LTL should be quite profitable. I envision doing this much in the way I used to haul cars. Find a core load that pays well and then keep any empty spaces on the trailer as full as possible along the way. With cars, we had a Lamborghini and Lotus contract that paid pretty well, but we still always tried to fill a rack as soon as it was empty, even if it was a 40cpm junker. Which reminds me, I used to have a picture of me jumpstarting a Murcielago off of an old charger. That was out behind the Shelby factory in North Las Vegas. They got the biggest kick out of that… but I digress.

I wanted to buy a trailer with the smaller tires when I found my current trailer. One thing that made me decide on the 255/22.5 tires was the brakes. The larger tires had the bigger brakes. Since I was running a lot of left coast at the time I felt that was important. One thing to consider with the smaller tires is where you run. If you run the west coast or the warmer regions of the country in summer, you are probably going to blow more tires. Smaller tires tend to heat up more than larger tires. There are advantages of having the smaller tires, such as being able to haul some RGN or double drop freight. I have container locks built into my step deck to haul high cube containers. They pay pretty well sometimes. The container locks add a few hundred pounds to the trailer. If I were you I would stick to a 2 axle trailer, at least for now. You don't know what you will really need at this point. One other thing. Most step deck loads are from the side, but some are loaded from the rear. For those loads the lower deck could be a problem. You can't have a trailer that will be perfect for all applications. I would sit down and consider what you plan on doing with the trailer and then match your trailer to those needs. It would be good if you could scale 45,000-46,000 without permitting. Just one other thing to clog the brain.

[Musicman]

"So you're not buying the "more miles" pitch the interstate sweatshops are selling? First thing I notice is your tractor is not designed for pulling an open platform trailer. You might be in the same boat you're in now. Just picking up the scraps that the rate cutters can't cover.

I know the 387 isn’t the most common tractor to be pulling a flat or step, but what is it exactly that makes it “not designed for pulling an open platform trailer?”

I haven’t ever bought into the high mileage concept that governs reefers, vans and containers. I have, however, always chosen the best option readily available to me at the time. I cut my teeth in this industry doing cut flowers and plants, so running a reefer was the obvious choice when I began running under my own authority, because that is what I know best and would be least likely to fail with.

Last I checked, I’m not picking up scraps in the reefer business. You’d be hard pressed to find others averaging over $1.74 for every odometer mile put on the truck so far this year; and that was having to run a truncated schedule so that I could be home to take my wife to chemotherapy for eighteen weeks at the height of the produce season. I’m sure there are some out there who have done better. I’m sure there are even more who would claim they do better but couldn’t ever prove it. I’m doing quite satisfactorily in financial terms. As I have stated in an earlier post, I am afraid that my two main brokers are correct in their assessment that the writing is on the wall in the reefer and van business. The last couple of times I’ve been into a repair shop and chatted with the mechanics, they all say that finding an English speaking driver these days is like hitting the lottery. I don’t fault any immigrant for trying to better his or her standing, but when I have a house and acreage with a mortgage and other goals, and he is simply happy that he has money to eat and that nobody is trying to exterminate him, it makes it hard to compete with the money he is willing to work for. There seems to such an influx of these sorts in the reefer and van segments of our industry that I think it’s time to get while the getting is good. I never really like pulling a reefer anyway, I’m just good at it. I loved enclosed auto transport, but the liability is so great that I’ve had my fill of that. That leaves pulling some sort of open deck trailer, and I can’t see buying a flat when I can just as easily get a step-deck and have a lot more versatility.

[GMAN]

Another option you may consider is buying an aluminum or combo flat with a side kit. Living in Illinois, you would be in a good position to haul steel and get home on a regular basis. Rates would be fairly decent and with the sidekit, it would be easier than having to throw tarps. A step might be more versatile, but I did well pulling a sidekit at one time. You probably are not going to get as good of a rate as you can with a step deck, but rates could be worth noting.

[asdfghjkl]

"I am afraid that my two main BROKERS are correct in their assessment that the writing is on the wall in the reefer and van business. The last couple of times I’ve been into a repair shop and chatted with the MECHANICS, they all say that finding an English speaking driver these days is like hitting the lottery. I don’t fault any immigrant for trying to better his or her standing, but when I have a house and acreage with a mortgage and other goals, and he is simply happy that he has money to eat and that nobody is trying to exterminate him, it makes it hard to compete with the money he is willing to work for."




#1. Brokers are salespeople who make their income selling you loads. If they told you the truth that it is difficult to find reliable, knowledgeable, intelligent owner operators they would have to pay you more.

#2.The reality, regardless of what mechanics say, is that there is a tightening of capacity for all kinds of freight. Over time rates will increase regardless of who hauls it.

#3. Don't try to compete with bottom feeders who haul cheap freight. Find shippers to deal directly with the man paying the bill and that person will appreciate great service and pay more for it.

[Heavy Duty]

"Sagacious" - good word!

So you're not buying the "more miles" pitch the interstate sweatshops are selling?

First thing I notice is your tractor is not designed for pulling an open platform trailer.

Look who's pulling tractors... TMC, Western Express, Maverick. You might be in the same boat you're in now. Just picking up the scraps that the rate cutters can't cover.

What tractor is desgined for pulling a open platform trailer?

[Musicman]

#1. Brokers are salespeople who make their income selling you loads. If they told you the truth that it is difficult to find reliable, knowledgeable, intelligent owner operators they would have to pay you more.

I already stated that we do get paid more. When I call and discuss a load with an underling, he always says that he’ll have to get back to me on exactly what he can offer because we get more than the broker’s standard rate. They can tell me what it would pay anybody else, but they have to consult with their boss to see what they can pay us. We get compliments from customers all the time on our professionalism and quality of service. The problem is that few customers in the reefer or van market are willing to pay a premium for quality service anymore. I think you missed the point that the brokers are having an increasingly difficult time keeping THEIR rates up because their customers are getting calls from rate cutters like Total Quality Logistics and others who are offering the same service for twenty percent less than what our brokers are offering. Total Quality Logistics and others are able to move the loads for less because they cater to carriers who require less, because their drivers will work for a little more than fuel money. Like I said before, when you come to America and you’ve been living in squalor and under persecution previously, you don’t require much to achieve happiness. I require more than fuel and food money, myself. I don’t blame these people, in their situation I’d do whatever I had to do as well, but the end result is that it destroys an industry. Just ask any native born American in Southern California who USED to work (because you can’t find any who STILL work in construction) in the construction industry what it did for them. That is the future of the less specialized segments of trucking and nothing will stop it.

#2.The reality, regardless of what mechanics say, is that there is a tightening of capacity for all kinds of freight. Over time rates will increase regardless of who hauls it.

Ask guys who’ve been around for thirty years or so in this business if your assessment is accurate. You will hear stories how rates were twice what they are now and expenses less than half. Rates do not always go up. I agree that the bad economy is partly to blame, but that’s only a small part of the problem in the reefer and dry van markets.

#3. Don't try to compete with bottom feeders who haul cheap freight. Find shippers to deal directly with the man paying the bill and that person will appreciate great service and pay more for it.

This is not so common with produce. I have a shipper that I get good rates from doing dairy, but those loads are so short that it isn’t worth bothering with them most of the time.