[Maniac]

sometimes it is safer to follow close to a truck than allow a 4 wheeler to make a dangerous maneuver to cut in between 2 trucks.

It is NEVER safer to follow too close.........what kind of drugs you takin?

[One]

Originally Posted by Maniac

It is NEVER safer to follow too close.........what kind of drugs you takin?

Exactly! BUT when u have the choiceof following a truck at 30 ft or a car getting in the 30 ft, whats safer? i guess u didnt get my point.

[One]

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen

I started driving (commercially/big rigs) in 1991 & yes, I fully get it (and more importantly have not lost it as so many apparently have). This is exactly why I am speaking out! :lol:

And, BTW I am indeed talking about when I am in the far RIGHT lane. I hate it when so many other drivers are too timid to pass me, and instead hang out on my ASS!!!

Then if you are so experienced surely you know what you are supposed to do is slow down to give the vehicle behind you more of an opportunity to pass, NOT get all worked up about it and start making confusing signals.

[scythe08]

Originally Posted by One

safe driving is not just about whats in front of you, also whats going on behind and beside, those are my reservations about the smith system. When traffic is mixed with different vehicles of different capabilities and limitations, pros and teens looking at facebook on their iphones, we sometimes have to be sheperds to the sheep and work together to insure everyones safety. The truck in front is the eyes of the truck behind; sometimes it is safer to follow close to a truck than allow a 4 wheeler to make a dangerous maneuver to cut in between 2 trucks.

I'm a little confused about your reservations about the smith system. I apologize if I'm not understanding you correctly. Are you saying they teach only to pay attention to what is in front of you? If so, you either had a bad instructor or you misunderstood the class.
I am a Smith System Instructor and "Getting the Big Picture" is part of the curriculum.

A=Aim High in Steering- You are looking at least 15 seconds ahead
G=Get the Big Picture-keep at least a 4 second minimum following distance and you are checking your mirrors every 5 to 8 seconds
K=Keep you eyes Moving- You avoid focusing on any one object more than 2 seconds
L=Leave Yourself and out- Surround yourself with space
M=Make sure They see you- Seek Eye contact

There is never any excuse to tailgate, ever and I have heard them all! The one about not wanting to have a car or truck cut them off is the most prevalent. If someone is tailgating you and it is making you uncomfortable then the Drivers manual does say to "Increase your following distance until the other vehicle passes you" That is the correct response or you can ignore him and let him make the mistake and hope he doesn't hit you when You slam the brakes on to avoid a situation.
Tailgating another truck to try to keep another car from making a dangerous maneuver to cut between 2 trucks? I have a question and a situation for you.

Here it is:
Say You are driving your Rig Behind Mine and you're driving a full truck length behind......Guess what a car will still try to take that spot.
Say You are driving your Rig behind Mine and you're driving half a truck length behind.....Guess what, a Car will still try to take that spot.
A car will try to fit in any spot that He/She thinks they can get into, assuming that you are ALWAYS going to move. There is no way you can keep them from doing that and you are only adding Danger to an already dangerous situation.

My Question is this and I have asked this in every single class I have taught and I ask this respectfully:

Why is it so hard to slow down?
If you are following a proper and safe distance and a car wants in, so what? What are you losing by letting that car in? Maintain your distance, let the car make the action and keep on rolling. I'm still able to make my deliveries and my pick ups on time and I don't have the stress of worrying about trying to keep a car from cutting my off or getting in front of me. The majority of the time the cars will going faster than you anyway. Carsor Semi wants in? Let them and keep on rolling. Will you have to work at keeping you safe following distance, Yes! But if there is a Situation, Do you want Witnesses telling the LEO that you were tailgating or that it was the other Vehicles fault? There's a lot to think about, isn't there?

I know that in Heavy Traffic it is all but impossible to maintain a constant safe distance. But it is important that you TRY. Don't add more Danger to a situation. Try to subtract it the best you can for the sake of Lives, property damage, your companies reputation and your lifeblood, your license.

[One]

oh hell the standard smith system repetoire...joy! It is not hard to slow down, u did not listen, i just advocated that a driver should slow down to motivate the tailgater to overtake didnt i? My problem with the smith system is that it may reduce your direct exposure to hazards in most cases but it does not care what is happening behind the driver. we both know that when a vehicle is driving slower than other vehicles around that the danger level behind the driver is massively elevated. People think that if they drive in the middle lane at posted speed limit they are good responsible drivers but those same drivers tend to get disconnected from their surroundings and not know whats going on behind. Couple that with a lack of no passing on right and slower traffic keep right laws and u get vehicles behind doing crazy maneuvers..so has the danger level decreased or increased? And dont worry i have seen plenty of blood and guts to last a lifetime, im a safety hawk, but i do not agree with all aspects of the smith system for the reasons i listed. Plus evidently the smith system was concieved to limit LIABILITY not reduce highway deaths, so STFU.

If you are really concerned with SAFETY, then lobby for EVERYONE to sit through one of ur classes, as a prerequisite to renewing their license or obtaining a new one. Go teach kids what can happen when they cut a truck off carrying 48000lbs of highly flammable liquid while passing a truck carrying 10000lbs of radioactive material kept cool by 10000lbs of dry ice. U prolly never even thought of that just like the oblivious motoring public.

[Musicman]

Tailgating is a safety issue in several ways and is never safe.

My truck is ungoverned, but I usually set my cruise around 62mph. On the rare occasion that I do need to pass another vehicle (on a muti-lane highway, obviously), I do not speed up unless there is another truck close enough to passing that I will be in its way before I complete my pass. If that is the case, I either speed up to make my pass quicker or I wait until the faster truck passes. I really don’t care about being tailgated, it’s simply about me being as courteous as possible to other drivers, even when they might not deserve it.

My question to those obvious tailgaters who have responded to the OP, is what is it that you think you will accomplish by tailgating another truck? You are only showing your own stupidity, or lack of self-control at minimum. In most cases the truck you’re tailgating can’t speed up even if the driver wants to because the truck is governed. The only thing you are doing is risking a ticket, risking your life, load and equipment, and giving our industry a bad image.

Hurting the image of our industry is my final and most important point. I really don’t care if you kill yourself or rack up so many tickets that your license is suspended; but it matters very much to me when you do something that hurts the public image of trucking. Have you noticed that most “safety” regulations that are imposed on us have very little to do with safety? The government gets away with most of its regulation bull***** because the general populace, which has already been tailgated themselves and seen many other unsafe trucking antics, is then subjected to media propaganda every time some moron driver rolls his or her truck or rear-ends a busload of kids like Crete did in Florida. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but because you are driving one of the largest vehicles on the road, everything you do is easily visible to every car on the road. Driving a truck is almost like working on a stage or on television. It’s the same thing that happened to get trucks banned from most shopping malls and other potential parking areas. People used to have little issue with trucks parking wherever there was space until drivers started throwing urine bottles, bags of feces and assorted other garbage on the ground. Our actions really do have an impact on how our industry is perceived and ultimately drives the rules and regulations we are all subjected to.

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by One

Exactly! BUT when u have the choiceof following a truck at 30 ft or a car getting in the 30 ft, whats safer? i guess u didnt get my point.

It is always safer to NEVER be within 30 feet of any other vehicle, as far as following distances are concerned. Safest distance for a fully loaded truck (78,000 +) is approximately 380 feet.

Now....as far as your disdain for "The Smith System". You do realize that all the system is, is the National Defensive Driving Council's safe driving program, tuned toward truck weights and speed? Right? I worked with the two brothers whom "started" the Smith System. I became a "driver trainer / safety coordinator" in the same class as the elder brother. Smith the younger was about three classes later. The "Smith System" was what we were trained to teach others, by the company we all worked for. And that was the tweaked version of the "National Defensive Council Driving Program". The man whom actually tweaked that program towards trucks, did so while he was the driver safety coordinator at UPS in the early 70's. When Dow Chemical hired him away from UPS in early 1978, it was for that specific reason. By early 1978 Dow was sick and tired of the carnage their trucks and 4-wheelers were causing on the nations roadways.

I do believe that UPS still holds to the motto......"Don't back. Don't back. Do not back!" Said motto was started at UPS by the gentleman I refer to....and I have forgotten his frickin name! It was right there on the tip of my tongue too!!


:banghead: HAAAAAA! Got it! Lowell Jones was the man's name.....and he set up the first driver training facility for UPS in Lubbock Texas....as I recall his telling of it. They set it up in Lubbock...as I recall him saying, because of the ever present wind and the vast empty spaces in which to train men to handle doubles.

It is amazing what coffee and cantaloupe can help ya do!!

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

I do believe that UPS still holds to the motto......"Don't back. Don't back. Do not back!" Said motto was started at UPS by the gentleman I refer to....and I have forgotten his frickin name! It was right there on the tip of my tongue too!!

Funny you should mention this. My house sits near the state highway we are on and we have a “front door” which we never use, a side door that goes directly to our old basement, which we also never use, and the back door which is on our deck, which we always use. I have been fighting with our new UPS guy because he parks his little truck on the busy highway and walks packages to the closest door to the street. I’ve gone as far as placing “day-glo” signs in the windows of each door informing delivery drivers that they need to use the rear door only for deliveries, and they all get it but the UPS guy. It’s too far to walk according to the moron in brown. I asked him why he doesn’t pull down our 400 foot long drive and make a 3 point turn in front of my shop like everybody else and the guy tells me that he isn’t allowed to back up because it isn’t safe. He tells me this, I swear, standing in full view (albeit 100 yards away) from my Peterbilt and 53’ reefer trailer that I back into my drive from the highway each time I come home.

I understand not backing when avoidable, but there needs to be a little common sense employed in the implementation of that policy. It’s WAY more dangerous for this guy to park on the far side of the busy State highway I live on and then dodge traffic as he runs across the road with packages. I imagine even his safety manager would agree if he saw what this guy was doing.

[solo379]

If it's not necessarily to do it, it's necessarily not to do it!

[classictruckman]

The bus company my wife works for is even worse, she has to radio back to the shop to get permission to backup 5 feet:hellno: