help me decide. (APU or not)

[firebird_1252]

ok so.. i'm noticing they are really cracking down on idling laws. (in pa anyway)

i dont stay out overnight (yet but soon with in a year). i do stuff with drop and hooks or live loads. i just started out and i'm trying to pinch every penny and save as much fuel as i can. my normal wait is 1-4 hours for live loads everything else is drop and hook. but, with the heat/cold i really do not want to run the truck. my dog goes with me so i have to be fair of course.

anyway, i called some APU people.i really like the domatic apu but.. at the price of $10500 and i have to add my own power source its not worth it to me.

i called my local TK dealer and spoke to them. i got a price of $10300 for everything installed. thtas with the artic package. hell for $95 does it realy matter? now my truck must have had a APU or something on there at one time. i have the vent in the bottom of my bunk.

monday i will call the local rigmaster dealer and see what they have to offer.

i was also thinking about going another route. 2000 watt generator (a honda/yamaha/kipor), get a custom box made up to some of them chassis grabber brackets, with a portable ac unit inside the cab. i found a portable AC unit today that was 7000 btus, at a price of $229.what i like about it is that its small enough that i can put it in one of the compartments of my sleeper in my columbia. the only thing thats killing me right now is how do i vent this thing?

anyway, the way i figure it.. to do the do-it-yourself apu it'll cost 2k the most. or am i wasting my time? any input would be great. what do you guys do/use?

[LBF]

Do the math and decide when the right time to spend the money.
idling costs you a gallon per hour in the big engine.
get the fuel burn for your targeted solutions, some of them can burn up to 1/2 gallon at full load.

Work out the difference and whether that is sufficient payback.

I suspect that you'll find that you need to be sleeping in the truck several nights a week before the savings will reasonably pay for the expense.

Be sure to consider the effect of an idling ticket on your "savings" of waiting.

I would avoid making up your own system unless you know what you are doing.
The turn key systems have already done the experimenting, you are paying for their knowledge and warranty, as well as the equipment.
You lose $2000 straight up if you screw up that generator in your attempt.

[mgfg]

Do the math and decide when the right time to spend the money.
idling costs you a gallon per hour in the big engine.

That's old technology LBF...new engines burn half a gallon per hour.

[firebird_1252]

i heard that a cat actually burns more then a gallon an hour. the TK dealer told me the tripac burns half a gallon a night.. not sure how true that is. i decided i'm doing a tripac but in a few months. need to clean up some credit cards before i go for the financing.

[crb]

I am in no way an O/O, but I have researched the topic a lot. I personally wouldn't want a traditional APU. I personally would look more in the direction of a diesel generator, rv rooftop ac, and bunk heater.

[firebird_1252]

crb, i was orginally looking at a t600 with a studio sleeper and that was my intentions. but with a columbia i dont like the way it looks.

[mgfg]

I am in no way an O/O, but I have researched the topic a lot. I personally wouldn't want a traditional APU. I personally would look more in the direction of a diesel generator, rv rooftop ac, and bunk heater.

If you are going that route then you want the A/C wired up for shore power so that you can plug it in.

CRB, if you proposing a diesel generator then why would you still want a bunk heater? Why not just run the generator and use a space heater?

[firebird_1252]

the heater was what sealed it for me with a do-it-yourself apu and a traditional apu. my dog goes with me (65 lb boxer) and i dont want her to knock it over.. thats a hell of an alarm clock

[crb]

I like the bunk heater better than a space heater takes up less space, more convienant, and burns way less fuel than running generator. Why do a space heater when you could buy a rv ac with a heat strip. I still like bunk heater personally. There are quite a few th salvage yards where you can pickup a rv style ac at a discount. Yes I would set it up to use shore power also.

The part I like about my setup is its not proprietary any rv shop will have parts or can work on ac unit. The generator can easily be swapped out if you have any problems. I would set the generator up to keep batteries charged also. The rooftop ac will cool the truck cooler I believe. I have heard lots of complaints about traditional apus especially that they do not cool well. I don't believe the gallon per ten hours mantra the apu companies spew either. Has anybody tracked fuel consumption?

I would run a separate fuel tank for generator and bunk heater so i can run off road fuel unit or write off the tax.
I would consider a propane generator depending on fuel consumption.

I am in no way an expert these are my opinions.

[VPIDarkAngel]

i heard that a cat actually burns more then a gallon an hour. the TK dealer told me the tripac burns half a gallon a night.. not sure how true that is. i decided i'm doing a tripac but in a few months. need to clean up some credit cards before i go for the financing.

Good call. I've had mostly TriPac's on the company trucks I've driven, and so far have had only one problem in two years amongst five units (fan motor died on this one). They're also pretty quiet, compared to others.

[firebird_1252]

today i was searching ooida and they had an add for mantis 175.. anyone have any experence with this?

[Copperhead]

I guess one has to look at what conditions they are in most times as to whether a full blown APU is a cost effective solution. I only really have need for AC a few weeks at most during the year, but have need for heat several months a year, since I primarily run the upper Midwest. So an espar heater for both bunk and engine is a more practical solution. A fan and window screens takes care of all but the really hot, humid days. If I go with an AC unit, I will opt for a RV roof mount unit with a portable generator. I have a midroof truck and the AC unit would fit nicely under the air dam on top. A Honda EU3000 is pretty efficient on fuel. Overall cost much lower and less weight than a rail mounted APU. And any RV place in the country can service the AC unit if needed.

[MichiganDriver]

A question that's been gnawing at me is why stay in the truck all the time? With diesel prices rising like they are isn't the equation changing just a little? If you idle your engine for 10 hours at 1 gal an hour at $4 a gal you're blowing $40. You can frequently get a room for that much and get a shower, cable tv, a desk for your laptop for logging into their wifi. With an apu you'd have to spend a ton of money for the unit and then probably still spend 10 hrs * .2 gal/hr @ $4 gal = $8. Ok, over a long enough period of time the APU pays.

Of course the truck starts to sound good to me in the dead of winter when you've got to keep the engine warm one way or another. Idling or Apu, you might as well sleep in the truck (assuming there's no place to plug it in).

When I buy a truck I might just have 3 modes:
1. Cold, nasty winter night: idle the engine and sleep in the truck
2. Summer (or cold but not ridiculous winter night): turn the engine off and get a room somewhere
3. The weather's perfect: sleep in the truck for free

[Copperhead]

Good thinking. That is why I only really need something like Espar heater for bunk and one for engine. Those Espar or Webasto heaters consume far less fuel than any APU and will really do the job. The engine heater units can take a block from 0 to 150F in about an hour. Far faster than any block heater running off an APU. Cold is my biggest concern. And like you stated, at those real hot times, getting a room makes more sense than running a truck all night. And you get cable tv and shower thrown in. Try that with an APU.

APU's have their place, but they are not always cost effective. When you factor in the added weight and cost as well as the cost to maintain it, it can have a pretty long ROI. For those that spend a lot of time in California and the southern tier of the U.S. it makes a lot more sense.

[BanditsCousin]

I got my TRipac with the inverter, ignition, and arctic package for 8500 new out the door. I also called more than one TK rather than assuming there was a flat price across the board.

Engine burns 1-1.5 gal/hr idling (depending on make and load)

Tripac burns 1.2 gal/ 10 hrs under load, .8 without load.

Hope this helps.

[Copperhead]

I guess that begs the question: regarding the fuel rate not under load, if there is no load, why would anyone even run the tripac? Just to listen to it? Just playing with your head!

Was that $8500 with complete install or, as you state, out of the box? According to TK's literature, under load (AC), the rate of consumption is 2 gallons in 10 hrs (.2 gal per hr). The most I idle for AC per year has been around 200 hrs. At $4 a gallon, that is around $800. Now, buying the tripac, adding the fuel it uses, and the additional maintenance of the unit itself, it would take me over a decade to break even. That is why I stated earlier that it is not a real cost effective option. Even if you factor heating, just getting an Espar heater is more cost effective. The tripac uses a similar Webasto bunk heater. And the tripac doesn't have a block heater, though you could use the generator output to run a block heater, but it would have to run most of the shutdown time to keep the block warm, there goes 2 gallons of fuel along with what the Webasto is using. An Espar heater will use about .05 gallons of fuel and have the block to 150 degrees in one hour after being shutoff all night.

One has to look at all the variables to determine if it is a cost effective option to get an APU. Of course, if someone is primarily operating in the southern and southwest part of the country, ROI on an APU is sooner. If a person operates in the upper Midwest, like I do, there is no reasonable ROI on a full blown APU with all the bells and whistles.

[Copperhead]

As a side note in all this, even with the present heat wave in the midwest, at night I can run my truck for AC for about 1/2 hr after stopping to cool everything down, and not have to start again for a couple of hrs, and run it for 15 min to cool everything again for a couple of hrs. Now, that is at night. Of course, if the sun is beating down on you, that wouldn't work so well. So, again, an APU doesn't make sound financial sense in my situation. The only reason would be anti-idling laws, but even those 15 min cooling down periods I mentioned fit within most anti-idling statutes. And in places like Chicago, there are exceptions to the anti-idling laws like if you are trying to sleep at temps above 80F, you can idle to your heart's content.

[BanditsCousin]

8500 was for all I included, MINUS the heater. I already had an Espar, so it was wired into the Tripac's control module in cab.

The purpose of the "not under load" is for monitoring the batteries. I have a flatscreen, microwave, laptop, fridge, etc, so even on a cool night with the windows cracked, it can suck down some juice. Let me tell ya, that Espar WILL suck down juice, but not enough to drain your batteries if they're in good shape (ask me how I know )

Sounds to me, for your situation, you're on the bubble for deciding. You could also get a used Tripac for 3500.

Edit- That was the installed price, and at a TK not far from Iowa

[firebird_1252]

i am local... for now but, my dog goes everywhere with me and i do have to be fair for her in the summer and the winter. in the mornings its not bad. but i have that damn window on the top of the sleeper that makes it like a greenhouse. yesterday i idled maybe 45 min. i can not believe the fuel savings. i'm betting my fuel milage will be about 6mpg. lately its been in the low to mid 5's. almost 700 miles on half a tank according to the guage, and i have dual 120's.

right now i'm tossed up between the blackrock and the tripac. on paper the blackrock is alot stronger. 23000btu's and i think a 402cfm fan. filling out my grant paperwork soon so something is happening real shortly.

[Copperhead]

Well, I really don't need APU for monitoring batteries either. My flat screen is an Apple laptop. Never have had a microwave or needed one, and my fridge won't draw down the batteries to where they are too weak even after sitting for two days at the house. I really don't have the shutdown time that many others do. When I stop for break, I have got to be rolling in 10. Never sit around waiting for loads like I have in days gone by and many others still do today. My power needs are modest and the time sitting is minimal. That is why heat, since I stay primarily in the upper Midwest is really the only concern. If power for batteries was ever an issue, a Honda portable generator would do the trick nicely and a darn site cheaper and lighter, with lower maintenance requirements.