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Thread: Understanding HOS...

  1. #1
    sjmay is offline Member
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    Default Understanding HOS...

    Hey guys,

    Just want to make sure I understand the HOS properly, gonna set up an example, as that's how I learn best.

    Trucker A takes a load from Toronto to Chicago on June 1st

    522 miles, at 60 mph, is just about 9 hours driving, assuming no delays,

    On June 2nd, Trucker A drops off the load, and then drives to Joliet to pick up a load on June 3rd.

    Joliet - Dallas is 906 miles and takes just over 15 hours, so June 3rd/June 4th are driving, he drops off June 4th pm, he then drives from Dallas to Austin, TX to pick up for June 5th am, 200 miles away, a little over 3 hours.

    He picks up a load in Austin to take to St. Louis on June 5th am, which is just under 14 hours and 800 miles away, he has to drop the load by end of day June 7th to be legal?

    If so, he would then need a 34 hour restart to drive correct?

    And yes, I know the stars would have to be aligned perfectly to get loads that evenly spaced out, I am just testing my knowledge of the HOS.

    Thanks

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    repete's Avatar
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    Did driver A do pretrips how about fueling,load or unload? You left that stuff out, there's more to it than just driveing. Log as you drive it and drive it legal

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    Orangetxguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by repete View Post
    Did driver A do pretrips how about fueling,load or unload? You left that stuff out, there's more to it than just driveing. Log as you drive it and drive it legal
    LOL.... Lot's of stuff was left out for certain!! Of course.....the driver might have a boat load of luck and can clear Customs in record time! Both directions!
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009

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    rank is offline Senior Board Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
    he has to drop the load by end of day June 7th to be legal?
    If so, he would then need a 34 hour restart to drive correct?
    I didn't add up the driving hours but it doesn't seem like he's out of driving driving time. And you didn't mention how much on duty not driving he did, so we'll assume the minimum pre trips and stuff. So basically, yeah, he'll run up against his 7 day limit. 168 hrs from whatever time he went on duty at the start of his cycle June 1st.

    And don't forget after 14 hours he needs to take 10 hours off.
    Last edited by rank; 03-25-2011 at 08:02 AM.

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    Malaki86's Avatar
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    I never have understood HOS... They charge for what I give away...

  7. #6
    sjmay is offline Member
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    Is it safe to look at HOS like this then?

    14 hour day driving or not,
    11 hour day strictly driving
    60 hours on duty in 7 days can't drive after that
    70 hours on duty in 8 days consecutive,

    So in a 7 day cycle, there are 2 banks of hours, one total duty time, one driving time, 98 hours total on duty, 60 hours driving, and after 14 hours on duty you must have 10 hours off duty, no matter what?

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    Orangetxguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
    Is it safe to look at HOS like this then?

    14 hour day driving or not,
    11 hour day strictly driving
    60 hours on duty in 7 days can't drive after that
    70 hours on duty in 8 days consecutive,

    So in a 7 day cycle, there are 2 banks of hours, one total duty time, one driving time, 98 hours total on duty, 60 hours driving, and after 14 hours on duty you must have 10 hours off duty, no matter what?
    There are not many companies that work under the 60/7 log rules. In fact....I do not know any that have since 1986.

    You have 70 hours available in an 8 day period. Usually those hours are used up by day 6, unless a driver is shot full of luck....or cheating on the paper log. No driver can cheat the e-Log. Well....not very much anyway.


    Have you been to "Driver School"?? Do you have any training in logs at all??
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009

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    MichiganDriver is offline Senior Board Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetxguy View Post
    There are not many companies that work under the 60/7 log rules. In fact....I do not know any that have since 1986.

    You have 70 hours available in an 8 day period. Usually those hours are used up by day 6, unless a driver is shot full of luck....or cheating on the paper log. No driver can cheat the e-Log. Well....not very much anyway.


    Have you been to "Driver School"?? Do you have any training in logs at all??
    What he said!

    Btw, this is one time where the gov's website is very clear.

    Hours-of-Service Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

    Edit: Actually, rereading the gov's website, the 11-Hour Driving Limit and 14-Hour Limit sections (in the chart at the bottom) are imho extremely clear. The 60/70-Hour On-Duty Limit section not so much, just go by what the Orange man said, he has a habit of being right. My take on the Sleeper Berth Provision is forgetaboutit. You need 10 hours in the sleeper birth and trying to get creative and splitting it into an 8 hour and 2 hour segment accomplishes nothing for all practical purposes anyway. Think 10 hours in the sleeper and you're good to go.
    Last edited by MichiganDriver; 03-25-2011 at 04:17 PM.

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    sjmay is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetxguy View Post
    There are not many companies that work under the 60/7 log rules. In fact....I do not know any that have since 1986.

    You have 70 hours available in an 8 day period. Usually those hours are used up by day 6, unless a driver is shot full of luck....or cheating on the paper log. No driver can cheat the e-Log. Well....not very much anyway.


    Have you been to "Driver School"?? Do you have any training in logs at all??
    I am assuming that is 70 total hours, driving/not driving etc, right?

    And no, haven't been to driver school / or have any training in logs, just doing some research for now....

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
    I am assuming that is 70 total hours, driving/not driving etc, right?
    yeah line 3 DRIVING and line 4 ON DUTY NOT DRIVING

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    rank is offline Senior Board Member
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    Canadian HOS.aspx

    Above is a quick link to Canadian HOS....7 day cycle. I noticed his first run was in Canada....if he happened to be in Canada after day 7, he would have to shut down for 36 hrs starting on day 8.

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    Hey Rank,

    That is very helpful as well, I am assuming that Canadian/American doesn't matter, if you are in Canada, you have to follow their HOS rules, along with FMSCA rules etc, they are very similar though so...

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    Orangetxguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
    Hey Rank,

    That is very helpful as well, I am assuming that Canadian/American doesn't matter, if you are in Canada, you have to follow their HOS rules, along with FMSCA rules etc, they are very similar though so...
    If you were to drive in Canada, assuming that Canadian regulations mirror American regulations....You would be very wrong indeed, and could find yourself talking with MDOT and writing them Comcheks to pay your fines.

    The first and most important aspect of crossing into Canada,is having done a 36 hour reset, before heading to Canada. A 34 hour reset here in the States does not count up there...only the 24 hour period that you had while doing the American reset, counts for anything. Canadian HOS regulations give you 2 extra hours driving each day......and 3 hours of extra "time". HOS regulations are different for each region of Canada as well. The "Southern Tier" provinces (Canada Main) have one set of regulations, while the "Northern Tier" provinces and the "Maritime" provinces (Canada North) are on a different set.

    Canada has a longer set of "total hours worked" (285?), before a full reset is necessary, but Canada requires a 24 hour off duty period once each 7 day period. As an American, MDOT will look at you harder than they will a Canadian driver....simply because of the "Cowboy Mentality" associated with the "American Trucker". If your truck is equipped with Qualcomm or Peoplenet, you are less likely to get a full inspection than a driver running a comic book.

    When in Canada, follow MDOT regulations. When in the States, follow the FMCSA regulations....never try and work under both. Just make certain you are legal before you cross the border, which ever direction you are going.
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009

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    rank is offline Senior Board Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetxguy View Post
    ...... and could find yourself talking with MDOT and writing them Comcheks to pay your fines.

    The first and most important aspect of crossing into Canada,is having done a 36 hour reset, before heading to Canada. A 34 hour reset here in the States does not count up there............... MDOT will look at you harder than they will a Canadian driver....simply because of the "Cowboy Mentality" associated with the "American Trucker".
    That brings back a memory Orange.

    Last winter I was talking to this US trucker couple at the Husky TS (km 632 hwy 401 in ON). He had been put OOS for not recording logging the change in time zones correctly. Plus they fined him for not having hazmat placards (he was carrying batteries to Montreal). Rather than spend the 36 hours at the scale, the wife drove the truck and trailer to the Husky. His dispatch sent another truck in to deliver the load. Then his fuel gelled up.

    So they are in a foreign country with no load, not likely to get paid much of anything, fined, OOS and with a gelled up truck. And the only reason they took their first Canadian load in the first place was it paid well and they really needed the money. I felt so bad I bought them breakfast.

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    sjmay is offline Member
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    That is great information, appreciate it Orange...

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    sjmay is offline Member
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    Ouch Rank, that kinda hurts,

    I do have a question though, with changes in time zones, how is that recorded?

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    GMAN's Avatar
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    Canada and the U.S. are similar in many ways, but if you are American and cross the border you need to remember that you are in a foreign country. The rules are a bit different. I have always had a positive experience in Canada. But, I was always respectful of them and always left a tip in U.S. dollars. I am not sure that would make much difference these days with the current exchange rate. Just make sure you note in your log book when you cross the border either way, if you travel into Canada.

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    You sure it's 24hrs off in 7 days in CA? I've always been under the impression it was 24hrs off in 14 days - so has my dispatcher. If it's 7/24, I've been there illegally a few times.

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    The safest bet is figure all your drivers are putting in a 14hr day EVERTYDAY, because the majority of the time they do. SO every 5 days, he will need a 34 reset. DONE and DONE.....simple as that.

    Now I know this won't help you too much, since you won't take my comment to heart..... figure on the best note that he is getting up, doing a PTI, then at some point getting fuel, then doing a post trip and driving his total 11hrs non-stop, then he will have 12hrs in a day roughly. Now if he goes to a shipper and picks-up, crosses a boarder or delivers, then it could be well more than 14hrs that day... hence why I just figure 14hrs each day.

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    Steel Horse Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
    Ouch Rank, that kinda hurts,

    I do have a question though, with changes in time zones, how is that recorded?
    You always log acording to your HOME TERMINAL location. So if you are on eastern time at your home terminal location, then your log-book should always show EST for everything. NEVER CHANGE TIME ZONES!!!!! Unless you want a HUGE fine and get put OOS for 34hrs minimum

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