Load sites.

[sjmay]

Well,

To tell you the truth is that im really not looking for somebody else to get another cut/percentage of what comes out to me.This business is all about cost and it really doesn't excite me having an extra one.
For me the way i work is pretty simple.i post my truck on the load board with the different brokers or do a search of what i need to take me to a certain place.Most often i do this from my smartphone.Everything is done over email with brokers and i can even get faxes from them with the confirmation rates.I think anyone that has a little bit willingness can do it with no problem.On a fair rate,it really depends on day to day market activity.This is referring to reefer rates that vary from hour to hour.On the new brokers question,i just dont want to take a chance with somebody that has a problem paying his carriers.This kind of stuff happens constantly and simply cant afford it.

Agree with all of that except the first sentence heh, but seriously, I understand where you are coming from, I guess the market for what I am looking to do, is for guys who just want to drive but don't want the hassle of finding, negotiating, and the paperwork of the loads etc, and in general I have no idea how big that market is, which is why I am on here, trying to find information etc.

This question would go out for everyone I guess, what would "look for" in a broker, new to you or not? I am assuming the following, history of business, references, good credit check, integrity, fair. What am I missing there?

Thanks,
Sam

[GMAN]

I look for a broker who has been in business for a while. I don't do business with any broker who hasn't been in business for at least a year. I check credit and their rates. No matter how good the rate, I don't haul a load unless they have good credit. I have made an exception to the credit on a couple of situations where I am paid with a comcheck before the load comes off my truck. I rarely do a COD. It is a lot less hassle to do business with brokers who have good credit and a good track record. It is a good idea to periodically do a credit check on brokers whom you are doing business no matter how large the firm.

There has been a lot written lately about increasing the broker bond from $10,000 to $100,000. Increasing the bond won't insure that a carrier or owner operator gets paid. Personally, I could care less whether a broker even has a bond or not. They will either pay you or they won't. Those who complain about not getting paid by a broker either don't check the credit or don't do what they are supposed to do with the load. If you do the checks you are not likely to have many problems collecting your money.

Another critical factor is the rate. If the broker has cheap rates then I don't do business with them. When a broker has cheap rates is is often due to double or triple brokering. Some may call it "co-brokering." Schneider has arrangements with other brokers and they call it "co-brokering." It is still double brokering. Regardless, I don't take a load unless it has a rate that I can live with.

[sjmay]

Sounds about right, by comcheck, what do you mean there, I haven't heard that term before...

Would you do business with a new broker, who has say been in business for 4 months, but is willing to provide a "deposit" or something similar with that? Or is that a pretty strict guide that you go by?

As far as cheap rates, do you continually check with the brokers to see if rates increased, or is there a certain point where you just write them off?

Thanks,
Sam

[GMAN]

A comcheck is guaranteed funds, much like a bank cashier's check. There are several different types of checks such as comchesk, T-Check, EFS, TCH, etc., They are all basically the same thing issued by different companies. All of them are owned by major banks. We can use either an express code or check. A check MUST be registered in order to be valid.

As I previously stated, I will rarely do business with a broker who has not been in business for at least a year. If there was a load that I wanted to haul and nothing else that I could find from someone whom I have been doing business I might do business with a newer broker. It would need to be a load that paid an above average rate. I don't necessarily have an iron clad policy on that. Each situation is different. The thing is that when you do a COD there is always the chance that the money won't be available on the other end. That means that you will either need to extend credit on someone who is not credit worthy or take the load back to where you picked it up. I usually won't do a deposit on a load. It will either be prepaid before I leave the shipper or paid in full with guaranteed funds before I allow the load to be taken off my trailer. There are quite a few who don't bother checking credit or references on new brokers and are surprised when they don't get paid. I don't want to put myself in that situation.

I don't usually check with brokers just to check rates. Each load is a negotiation. You can haul a load to an area today and that rate could change next week or even the next day. It could go up or down. There are some brokers who always seem to have cheap rates. I am always polite, but won't haul their freight unless it is something they must move and they bring the rate up. There are a couple of brokers who come to mind who will take as much as 60% of the line haul. There rates are nearly ALWAYS cheap. Taking that much of the rate is equivalent to stealing as far as I am concerned. The two brokerages I am thinking about are very large. I rarely receive calls from them since they know that I won't haul their cheap freight. I won't say that I will automatically write any broker off, but when they continually offer me cheap freight they are not on the top of my list, especially when I know the cut that they are taking off the top. I may receive calls from them from time to time, but I never call them.

[sjmay]

60% Holy crap, I don't understand how anyone could do that with a straight face,

Like I said before, I was thinking about going into a brokerage as an agent etc, but decided I like the load planning, or dispatching side much much more so I want to focus on that, but even then, I was thinking, at most 15% and probably would have settled on a 12-13% of the rate, anything higher really never crossed my mind,

Amazing.

Quick newbie question, I see a lot of mention of dry vans etc, just want to make sure I have the definition right, vans isn't what I think it is, meaning an actual van, when someone says dry van they typically mean a trailer for hauling dry goods, right?

Thanks,
Sam

[GMAN]

60% Holy crap, I don't understand how anyone could do that with a straight face,

Like I said before, I was thinking about going into a brokerage as an agent etc, but decided I like the load planning, or dispatching side much much more so I want to focus on that, but even then, I was thinking, at most 15% and probably would have settled on a 12-13% of the rate, anything higher really never crossed my mind,

Amazing.

I think that you will find most brokers will keep somewhere between 10-30% with the majority falling somewhere in between. I would expect you will find most of them keeping about 15-20%. However, if something is double brokered then you could have 2 commissions of 20% coming out of the rate. That means that between the two brokers they are skimming about 40% off the rate so the truck is now only receiving 60% of what the shipper paid to move the load. That a major reason some rates are lower than one would expect. When you talk to the shipper you find that they are paying a fair rate to the first broker, but after it has been brokered a couple of times the rate is either fair or poor when it gets to the truck.

Quick newbie question, I see a lot of mention of dry vans etc, just want to make sure I have the definition right, vans isn't what I think it is, meaning an actual van, when someone says dry van they typically mean a trailer for hauling dry goods, right?

Thanks,
Sam

That is correct. A van can haul some produce, such as onions or water melons as long as it is vented, but for the most part you will load something on pallets into a van or box truck. They are completely covered and must be loaded from the rear. Most trucks you see on the road pull vans.

[sjmay]

Gman,

Appreciate all the help, I couldn't even imagine 20% let alone the 30% etc, I mean, yes, I would like to make a buck in the business just as the next guy, but at that cost I can't imagine they have much business or will have much business for long if they are that greedy, I don't mind charging a fair rate for anything for any work that I do, but man,

When you had your dispatch company, how many trucks did you dispatch, and how many do you think one person could do comfortably, assuming the following, A. they spend 40+ hours weekly working, B. they handle the contracts, and billing the broker/shipper so the driver really only has to focus on driving and their own records etc,

Thanks,
Sam

[sjmay]

Hey GMAN,

Can you PM Me, I am starting to pull all the information together and I wanted to run something by you before going further,

Thanks,

Sam

[GMAN]

It isn't just reefers that have rates than can sometimes change by the hour. Flats can sometimes be very volatile. It can often be like playing poker. The first guy to blink loses.

[Super 8]

What is the point in dealing with a broker when you could find your own load on a board via wireless internet for a flat monthly fee? It seems to me that brokers have become redundant. Drivers now have cell phones and laptops with internet access. The technology is there. The infrastructure which was once needed, when drivers needed to find a payphone somewhere to call-in, is no longer necessary. Drivers should be able to do it all themselves, right? I mean, that's what appeals to me about getting back into the game. I own the truck/trailer. I can find my own loads, and route my own trips. I don't need a company or a brokerage to do it for me and take a cut.

Am I wrong about this?

[arky]

I'm guessing that you are partly correct. There almost has to be salesperson/agent/broker involved at some point though, unless the shipper wants to book all of there own trucks. Then I'm guessing that what happens is the load is put out for bid. The first person to get the load might be a trucker or it might be a broker. If the broker gets to it first and you can't get it direct from the first source, then the broker gets his cut if you get the load from him. Then... another broker grabs it up...lol...and on and on... and next thing ya know that $2.50/mile load is on the load boards for $1.37.

The only way to stop the cheap stuff from being put on the boards is for people to stop taking those rates. As long as a broker can grab that good paying load up and repost it with their cut taken out of it, their gonna do it. It's business, they take their proift where they find it just like all the rest of us.

Just a guess. I'm no expert and don't have my authority either...so ignore me if you wish..lol.

[sjmay]

It's also time, I have seen Gman state that it takes time to find the well paying load, so it's a matter of choice, is your time more valuable finding the load, or driving the load,

[GMAN]

What is the point in dealing with a broker when you could find your own load on a board via wireless internet for a flat monthly fee? It seems to me that brokers have become redundant. Drivers now have cell phones and laptops with internet access. The technology is there. The infrastructure which was once needed, when drivers needed to find a payphone somewhere to call-in, is no longer necessary. Drivers should be able to do it all themselves, right? I mean, that's what appeals to me about getting back into the game. I own the truck/trailer. I can find my own loads, and route my own trips. I don't need a company or a brokerage to do it for me and take a cut.

Am I wrong about this?

Are you referring to a broker or dispatch service? If you work in this business you will do at least some business with brokers. Even if you have some of your own direct shippers, you will likely do some business with brokers to get back to your shipper. A good broker will usually have more than one account and can possibly offer more than the load that you called about.

A dispatch service is NOT a broker. When I dispatch someone I don't rely totally on load boards. I think that I now have over 300 contacts in my file. I can sometimes find a better paying load from my contacts rather than a load board. In fact, I usually start with the contacts. If you run your own authority you can find your own loads. Some people would rather pay a service to find their loads than spend time making calls themselves. It does take time to find the better loads. If all you want to do is keep your truck moving you can easily do that yourself using load boards. Finding a decent rate, or better rate involves good negotiating skills and time. You can't look at a load board while driving down the highway. Many times I have seen a really good paying load be posted and within a few minutes it is gone. If you are not sitting at the computer watching loads being posted you could miss it. Some brokers won't work with you to plan out loads for several days or even a week out. Some will. Those who do that will sometimes offer a cheaper rate. You can always lose the load if someone comes along who will haul the load for less money. As long as people continue to take cheap loads rates will be cheap and more volatile. You can do everything yourself that a dispatch service can do as long as you are willing to spend the time and effort. There are some people who would rather pay someone to do those things for them so that they can be free to drive. It comes down to the value of your time or doing what you want to do. I charged 10% of the rate. As an example, if I booked $3,000 in freight for an owner, then I make $300 and the owner gets $2,700. He cannot pay a full time dispatcher $300. He can find and book his own loads and keep the $300 or he can pay me $300 and keep moving. I may or may not be able to get a better rate than he would have gotten for himself. In the past I usually did better than most of them were able to do for themselves. I figured that even if I only booked loads at what the owner could do, he was saving time and the time saved could mean that he could get another load on the truck this week. That puts more money in his pocket. He cannot look for loads while he drives. I can. You don't have to use a dispatch service to be successful in this business. You can use load boards, computer and cell phone to find and book loads. It is a matter of doing what you want or what you do best. For some, it is driving. For instance, I know people who would rather pay a service to do their quarterly IFTA filings for them. I know others who don't want to spend $35 or more each month for someone to do it for them. They prefer doing it themselves. I find the same thing with a dispatch service. Some would rather pay someone to look for loads and others would rather spend their time and save the money.

A good dispatch service can be similar to leasing to another carrier. They find and book loads for you while you drive. The difference is that the dispatch service is less expensive than leasing to a carrier and when it is your authority you will be responsible for doing your own IFTA and compliance. There are some who would be much more successful if they did use a service. There are too many people who are so scared of sitting for a day or two that they will put anything that they can get on the truck rather than wait for a decent paying load. They will take anything just to keep moving. They take a load without checking credit or reading the contract. These are not business people, but they are in business. Unless you make a profit you will not survive in this or any other business.

A good dispatch service can not only find loads, but do all the reading of contracts and other paperwork related to the load. If they are experienced they can also advise the owner operator or carrier where he should or should not be running to be most profitable. I have witnessed many changes the last couple of years. There have been times where former good freight areas are no longer very good. It is difficult to keep a handle on this when you are driving. I am not trying to sell anyone on using a dispatch service. That is something everyone must decide for themselves. It works for some people.

[ronjon619]

a lot of people just use the wife / family member to do that. Most guys have their dispatcher sitting in the jump seat or back at the house.

[Super 8]

I guess I don't see the difference between a dispatch service and a brokerage. Can someone explain this?

[sjmay]

Based off of my limited knowledge, simple basics is a dispatcher in theory works for the bests interest of the driver, and a brokerage works for the best interest of the shipper,

That is very very basic, a little bit more complex, a brokerage has to be licensed as he moves other people's freight with other people's trucks, a dispatcher basically finds the freight for trucks, it's a subtle difference in my mind, but a big one I believe.

I do believe that if a dispatcher has a direct shipper, they need a broker's license, but I don't know, it is one of the things I was going to ask,

So I will let someone more knowledgeable than I take it from here.

[ronjon619]

it's just a fancy word for scheduler, travel asst.

[Bigmon]

Not all dispatchers work in the best interest of the driver. There are some that are in cohoots with brokers.

[Musicman]

Most also have a credit service that can be purchased at additional cost.

Yes, but these are generally not true credit reports, only what that particular load board knows about a particular broker from carrier reviews or complaints on that load board’s site. If you want a true credit reporting service, you need something like Ansonia (ACD - Ansonia Credit Data - Member Login). It is a fee-per-use service, but it is one of the most used by the big factoring companies (it is in fact owned by Orange Commercial Credit who bought over $700 million in bills last year and only lost $44k according to them) and it is more in-depth than what a mortgage lender gets when he or she pulls your personal credit report. It includes everything except the results of a body cavity search of the head of the company. It’s a bit pricy when compared to what you would pay getloaded.com for example, but it is a true look at a company’s propensity toward paying its bills on-time.

[sjmay]

Music,

That seems like a very good company to use, I was trying to find out how much per report, couldn't find it on the website, can you tell me how much per use?

Thanks,
Sam