For Those Of You Smart Enough To Use Synthetic Oil

[Aufgeblassen]

Mobil 1 5W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil is IDENTICAL to Mobil Delvac 1, so the two can be mixed in your crankcase.

Buying gallon bottles of Mobil 1 5W-40 from Wal Mart is WAY cheaper than buying Delvac 1 from a truck stop.

The only trouble is, you may need to visit more than 1 Wal Mart if you are buying more than a few gallons at a time, as they don't stock that much at any given time.

[Copperhead]

I do one better.... I get a 40% synthetic blend from my local supplier, Allied Oil and Supply, delivered to my door, for $9 a gallon total cost... no delivery charge. But that is in a 55 gallon drum. My metal wear numbers were higher with a full synthetic and I just didn't realize any real cost benefit. But with the synthetic blend I run now, I get some real excellent used oil sample results and nothing out there on the shelf beats the price I get it at. The blend is equivalent to Rotella T5, except the Rotella is only 25% synthetic, whereas the blend I get is 40% synthetic.

[Aufgeblassen]

But what was your longest drain interval? Mine was 150,000 miles, with NO special filters, other than changing the Volvo Long Life Oil Filters every 30,000 miles along the way.

[Copperhead]

Longest drain on my ISX is my current interval of 25,000 miles. haven't tried to reach out and set an oil change record. True, all my samples show the oil can go on further. Just not sure what that distance is. I just haven't gotten into the "I can go xxxxxx miles without changing the oil". Don't have any issues with those that do try to go for big extended drains. Just never got involved in that competition.

Now, that being said, the wear numbers on my ISX going 25,000 on full synthetic name brands (Amsoil, Schaeffer, etc) were higher than the current oil I use (Allied Syntx 15w40 40% synthetic blend). Even after several oil changes on the full synthetics, Iron ran into the 50's to 60's and lead went into the high 20's (sometimes bouncing into the border of abnormal category of 40's). With my current oil, iron at 25,000 is consistently 11-14 ppm and lead is consistently around 7-8 ppm. Soot has hovered around .2 - .4 as well. That is why I said I saw no real cost benefit to using the big name brand synthetics. Based on wear numbers alone, my current choice of oil beats out the full synthetic stuff, and at substantially lower cost. I don't have to waste time tracking down oil or going and getting it. It is delivered to my house for $9 a gallon. I do my own services, get Donaldson oil/fuel/air filters from a local supplier at roughly 1/3 less cost than most other outlets. So my costs have been lower anyway. Not trying to set new records on oil change intervals.

You'll have to look elsewhere to find someone interested in competing for longest drain interval.

[Aufgeblassen]

Just never got involved in that competition.

Competition??? That's not what it is at all. It is science. It is also a great & easy way to save a bunch of money, and doing your small part to help out the environment. Plus it is a big time saver to boot.

Remember - the money you save is TAX FREE (at least for now, with our heading towards socialism!!!)

[Steel Horse Cowboy]

If you can't afford to change your oil every 15,000 miles then you don't run a good business, and deffinatley need to rethink owning a truck and your situation.

I use plain old Delvac and Lucas every 10,000 miles, which works out to be evey month. $250 is a drop in the bucket, plus I need as many write-offs as I can get, and who wants to waste all that time getting greasy and oily when I can help a local kid at the T/A keep his job LOL

[Aufgeblassen]

If you can't afford to change your oil every 15,000 miles then you don't run a good business, and deffinatley need to rethink owning a truck and your situation.

I use plain old Delvac and Lucas every 10,000 miles, which works out to be evey month. $250 is a drop in the bucket, plus I need as many write-offs as I can get, and who wants to waste all that time getting greasy and oily when I can help a local kid at the T/A keep his job LOL

So what you are saying, is that there are two identical cars for sale, and one is $20,000, and the other is $30,000, you should get the $30,000 car, because you can afford it. That is total idiocy.

As far as "write-offs" go, that is a bogus argument!!! If you are in the 15% tax bracket, it means you get 15 cents back for every $1.00 you spend. That's real sound economics.

And lastly, as far as "waste all that time" goes: yes, you are wasting a BUNCH of time; when you change your oil WAY too often.

[One]

Whats Aufgeblassen talking about??

[Aufgeblassen]

Whats Aufgeblassen talking about??

Learn plain English, and then you'll know.

[Steel Horse Cowboy]

So what you are saying, is that there are two identical cars for sale, and one is $20,000, and the other is $30,000, you should get the $30,000 car, because you can afford it. That is total idiocy.

As far as "write-offs" go, that is a bogus argument!!! If you are in the 15% tax bracket, it means you get 15 cents back for every $1.00 you spend. That's real sound economics.

And lastly, as far as "waste all that time" goes: yes, you are wasting a BUNCH of time; when you change your oil WAY too often.

Your anology is way f'd up.......

What I'm talking about is the fact that an avg truck takes lets say 10 gallons of oil.

At $13 a gallon, plus 2 fuel filters, 2 oil filters and then the grease you looking at roughly $180 in materials.

I get my an Ultimate PM done at the T/A for $185.00

As far as wasting time, I can drop the truck off, go shower and grab a bite as usual and the trucks ready when I get back.

I DO need the write offs, because I do not have any payments and I do not have any depreciation left on my truck. Then again, I actually make money out here, which is hard for the average trucker to comprehend seeing how they are wraped around a truck payment, and leased to a company that pays by the mile.
Once again, if you can't afford to drop $200 each month on an oil change, then you need to find a new job cuz your not going to make it out here buddy.
I'm not saying..... I'm just saying

[Copperhead]

Competition??? That's not what it is at all. It is science. It is also a great & easy way to save a bunch of money, and doing your small part to help out the environment. Plus it is a big time saver to boot.

Remember - the money you save is TAX FREE (at least for now, with our heading towards socialism!!!)

1. Science also dictates that you look at the results and make an informed decision. If the engine wear patterns are higher with a particular product, it might not be the best solution. My engine wear numbers were higher using full synthetics. I used the science of tribology (oil analysis) to determine that and determining the oil change interval my engine seems to like. I would get spikes of metal wear and such after around 30,000 miles and TBN would go from a gradual decrease to a spike downward. This is with all oils, synthetic and traditional, that I have tried. Just my engine I guess, so I have settled in on 25,000 to 30,000 mile service intervals.

2. Saving money? Maybe. Even at wally world pricing, I can purchase three times the brand of oil I use compared to the full synthetics (I would have to factor in my time to go get the stuff or have it shipped and the cost for me to do it compared to the fact my oil is delivered free to my house). Factor that into the statement I made above, and there is no cost saving to me using full synthetics. Actually, the cost is more to do so. Others may find that reversed, depending on their operation.

3. Protecting the environment. ALL of my used oils, from my auto, farm tractor, semi whether engine, hydraulic, or gear oil gets recycled back to my oil supplier. They pick it up for free from me when they deliver a barrel of new oil to me. None of it goes to waste. Just because someone is changing their oil sooner than you does not mean they are screwing up the environment. Even the Group IV full synthetics are products made from natural resources.... natural gas. The Group III full synthetics are just very highly hydrocracked mineral oils. Research it for yourself. Now for your test on Friday.... which brands are primarily Group IV synthetic and which are primarily Group III synthetic?

Some of us actually have given this whole topic a lot of thought.

As was stated earlier.... there is no "tax free". Shows you have not done much tax filing. For every dollar spent, you may save .20 in taxes. For every dollar not spent, you get to pay. Either way you lose.

[repete]

Your anology is way f'd up.......

What I'm talking about is the fact that an avg truck takes lets say 10 gallons of oil.

At $13 a gallon, plus 2 fuel filters, 2 oil filters and then the grease you looking at roughly $180 in materials.

I get my an Ultimate PM done at the T/A for $185.00

As far as wasting time, I can drop the truck off, go shower and grab a bite as usual and the trucks ready when I get back.

I DO need the write offs, because I do not have any payments and I do not have any depreciation left on my truck. Then again, I actually make money out here, which is hard for the average trucker to comprehend seeing how they are wraped around a truck payment, and leased to a company that pays by the mile.
Once again, if you can't afford to drop $200 each month on an oil change, then you need to find a new job cuz your not going to make it out here buddy.
I'm not saying..... I'm just saying

Needing a write off??? You really should rethink that logic, are you better off saving $1000. and having it to spend on whatever you want or spend that $1000 on a "write off" just so you don't pay $250 to the gvmt in tax?
As far as TA getting you in and out, you must have better luck than me last time it was 5 hours and that's with an appt! And the last 2x I get there and the say "we're out of grease"! Great customer service there! If I had a choice ....

[Aufgeblassen]

I have settled in on 25,000 to 30,000 mile service intervals.

Not to put you down, but it appears you have erroneously settled on a low number!

The ONLY two numbers that really tell you the oil quality has degraded (to the point of needing an oil change), are TBN and % soot (also viscosity, but it runs hand-in-hand with soot level).

Every other parameter tells you about the quality of the engine only, which is superfluous information, because there is nothing you can do about them, short of changing out your entire engine! So if your engine runs fine, you only need to monitor the two numbers I mentioned.

A "high wear metals" number is a symptom, not a cause, and have NO effect on the quality of the oil. The parts per million of them are incredibly low, and the particle size is extremely small (i.e. your oil filter filters out "large" ones), so they DO NOT cause additional wear to your engine.

[Copperhead]

Not to put you down, but it appears you have erroneously settled on a low number!

The ONLY two numbers that really tell you the oil quality has degraded (to the point of needing an oil change), are TBN and % soot (also viscosity, but it runs hand-in-hand with soot level).

Every other parameter tells you about the quality of the engine only, which is superfluous information, because there is nothing you can do about them, short of changing out your entire engine! So if your engine runs fine, you only need to monitor the two numbers I mentioned.

A "high wear metals" number is a symptom, not a cause, and have NO effect on the quality of the oil. The parts per million of them are incredibly low, and the particle size is extremely small (i.e. your oil filter filters out "large" ones), so they DO NOT cause additional wear to your engine.

You have seen my oil samples via radar? No, TBN and soot are not the only items to look for. You look for patterns in wear metals, viscosity, etc. All of these will change gradually. If one or more of them shows a pattern of spiking one way or the other at a consistent time on oil, it needs to be factored into the oil change interval as well. Viscosity does not run "hand in hand" with soot. Oil shear will change the viscosity while even the soot remains low. High oil shear can be a function of the oil type or the environment the engine is operated in.

I never said that higher wear metals increase the wear. You are trying to make me look like I said what I didn't.

Look, you can try as best you can to change my reasoning on this. Won't happen. I have more than a few years college level science courses and hands on experience analyzing used oil samples to feel comfortable with the choices I have made regarding my engine. If you get higher oil change intervals with your engine in your operation, great. Never said you couldn't. But don't presume to know my engine, my operation, my used oil samples, and then make blanket judgements. Get off of the glossy sales ads for these things. There is no one size fits all solution for anything in the real world.

[terrylamar]

Whats Aufgeblassen talking about??

Common good sense. More people should listen.

[Rev.]

LOL. This place cracks me up.

[jagerbomber3.0]

LOL. This place cracks me up.

I agree Rev. But just out of plain curiosity, Which side of the argument do you sit? Are you a dino oil guy or do you follow the logic of the hardcore synthetic guys? I am on neither side with this question just curious to your input because you always seem to have entertaining responses.

[Aufgeblassen]

I never said that higher wear metals increase the wear. You are trying to make me look like I said what I didn't.

OK, you agree that wear metals do not cause your engine to wear, why change your oil then, if other parameters are fine?

The whole point of engine oil is to prevent engine wear. The whole point of changing your oil is to prevent engine wear! NO other reason.

Wear metals are a sign of an ENGINE problem, not an OIL problem. Wear metals are telling you something is going wrong with some engine part. But not which one, so knowing is useless, unless it causes you panic and trade-in your truck for another.

BTW: I have an engineering degree from UCF, so I too took several college level science courses too. Prior to becoming an O/O in '05, I worked for Lockheed Martin seven (7) years at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, launching both Atlas & Titan rockets w/ billion dollar payloads. So I too, am not some moron just blabbering.

[chris1]

I hope you weren't signing off on any repairs.

[Rev.]

BTW: I have an engineering degree from UCF, so I too took several college level science courses too. Prior to becoming an O/O in '05, I worked for Lockheed Martin seven (7) years at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, launching both Atlas & Titan rockets w/ billion dollar payloads. So I too, am not some moron just blabbering.

Obviously you must not have been very good at it if now you're a truck driver.