CSA 2010, you guys need to see this...

[heavyhaulerss]

This could be a nightmare. any d.o.t inspector can issue bogus violations. I have only had 2 in 11 years, but it can happen. the last one, I was pulled over in a 45 m.p.h. contruction zone on i-65 & the d.o.t did an insp on the shoulder. after 45 min he wrote me up saying that some of my reflective tape on my trailer was faded. it was in august 2 p.m bright sunny day. he patrolled that area & by looking at my log book, I told him I am dedicated on this stretch of hywy & I will have new tape put on in a matter of an hour & I will be traveling this interstate twice a day every day. he could pull me over & check me anytime. just give me time to comply. no deal. now for anyone who says I was in deed in violation. your right. but the officer can use discrection. he was going to find something no matter what. i.m.o.

[GMAN]

I am not going to worry too much about it until I receive something from the feds. This is something that has been in the works for some time. While I don't welcome any more federal interference I would like to see some of these bad drivers moved out of this business.

[heavyhaulerss]

[QUOTE=GMAN;465877]I am not going to worry too much about it until I receive something from the feds. This is something that has been in the works for some time. While I don't welcome any more federal interference I would like to see some of these bad drivers moved out of this business.[/QUOTE


I too would like to see the bad drivers who give us all a bad name. though the bad drivers & the d.o.t can deal with each other. what I would like to see first, is the rate cutters gone.

[Justruckin]

As the scoring is based on the number of power units/drivers there is no difference between a carrier with one truck or a thousand. Again it would put everyone on the same level. Under the current rules it is nothing to see a carrier with one or two trucks that have an OOS rate of 50% or higher with no CR audit and a low(pass) ISS. If a larger carrier even approached anywhere near that number there would be a high(inspect) ISS and an audit.
I have yet not been informed of the regulation that results in the suspension of the CDL for these points. Only the carrier termination of the driver(voluntary)if it fits their employment guidelines.

From my discussion this was still a gray area. But, drivers in the test states were already being terminated. And this is where the insurance companies come in, what will be the least acceptable driver score before an insurance company steps in and says no, this driver has to many points? At that point, you may as well pull the guys CDL for at least a year or more. My point is, is that this scoring system is so open to abuse, and then throw in the 3 x multiplier for that first year... We shall see, hopefully it will not be as bad as it looks, but this is the government and they are here to help...

[golfhobo]

Justruckin said:

I made a phone call... And spoke with Steve Kessler over at the CSA2010 website, and this is what I learned.

I hesitate to give my 2 cents on this subject cuz we all know what usually happens when I do, but.....

First off, we ALL do realize (don't we) that this Steve Kessler does not work for some "CSA2010 website" as there is none officially that I know of. The site all this info is coming from is provided by a company called Vertical Alliance Group, INC. ...... which is SELLING A PRODUCT by stressing (if not hyping) a few minor changes in the way the FMCSA and the DOT will monitor safety data on companies and "eventually" their drivers.

I do not mean to "diss" the O.P. as he has obviously invested alot of time into researching this topic. And, yes..... I DID read pretty much the whole website before speaking up. I appreciate the info that there is a change coming..... but, nothing I read made me think that there was a MAJOR sea change afoot.

The 175,000 number came from one of the carriers that are under investigation under the new CSA rules. The 175,000 number is said to have come from a CSA inspector as to the results of what they have seen so far in the "numbers" that have come out from the seven state test period. So, take the 175,000 number for what it is worth, but these investigated carriers are already firing drivers under the new rules.

Well..... not exactly. As there ARE NO NEW RULES yet until this becomes effective "by the end of 2010," any firings are in preparation of and for the purpose of cleaning up their driver pools BEFORE they find themselves in a costly situation.

Also, 175,000 drivers.... out of the estimated 3 million on the road.... is about 5%. So.... the absolute WORST 5% of drivers out there (who have managed to elude the truth for far too long) are being/will be "found out" and weeded out as a result of a more efficient method by the agency tasked with monitoring who can drive a CMV and who can't. Like others here..... that sounds okay by me.

We spoke on quite a few things, and the bottom line was, that this was less about safety and more about control and revenue collection.

Did he get the impression that you COULD be a "consumer" of his product? Selling someone on the COST SAVINGS of one's product (while creating a negative impression of the "stated" goal of the competition or government) is one of the major tactics in sales. [As is using "planted" testimonials.]

I'll get back later with the rest of the story as it was quite an interesting conversation.

I'm sure it was, and I'm sure you will.

More reliable and impartial information/links MIGHT change my mind.... but, for now you can list me as a "poo pooer."

[allan5oh]

Here are the points:

CSA 2010 Violation Severity by Numeric Weight Charts

It's interesting because if you get four "light burnt out" tickets(6 points) within 6 months (3X multiplier) your CDL is suspended.

[golfhobo]

Here are the points:

CSA 2010 Violation Severity by Numeric Weight Charts

It's interesting because if you get four "light burnt out" tickets(6 points) within 6 months (3X multiplier) your CDL is suspended.

Is this directed at ME?

As I said.... I've already read ALL that info. Actually, I have YET to find the numbers of 90 and 72 points listed on that site. (I'm not saying they aren't there... I must have missed them.) However.... I didn't MISS the part that said that you CANNOT equally apportion the points assessed on ONE category across the board. I.e: 6 points for a light out is NOT the same weight as 5 points for a false log.

I REALLY don't want to get into a discussion of this info that approximates my analysis of the FMCSR's.... but, SOME people are misreading MUCH of the info on that site.

[allan5oh]

No not directed at anyone. I couldn't find the points earlier and I looked for a while.

[golfhobo]

Steve Kessler does not work for some "CSA2010 website" as there is none officially that I know of.

Okay, I've been off the site a bit lately and missed the other thread. I see there IS an official government site, and I have now read MOST of IT.

My opinion of the "private sector" site has not changed. I will be looking more into the FMCSA site. I have already noticed ONE important aspect of it as it concerns drivers. Really, not much has changed.

[Dejanh]

I need another year before i can get out of this stinky business once and for all. Am getting tired of it each and every day. That will be one less safe driver feds dont need to worry about.

[1catfish]

I need another year before i can get out of this stinky business once and for all. Am getting tired of it each and every day. That will be one less safe driver feds dont need to worry about.

triple ditto on that! you hit the nail right on the head!

[GMAN]

There is really nothing wrong with the current rules. If I remember correctly crashes involving big trucks is down so I don't see the need to make further changes in the system.

[jd112488]

not trying to be a dick here but...if a driver does his job and checks his lights..brakes..etc. while at the same time run a legal logbook and drive close to the posted speed limit. change a headlight when it goes out..as soon as safely possible, etc. then there should be nothing to worry about. wanna be a cowboy then there will be trouble. the way i see it...nothing is changing.

[Phreddo]

i work for a small company that has a terminal in milwaukee, but i'm in madison. my truck gets thru the yard probably once a month, and this company has -1- spare truck. we have to replace our own spare parts shipped over from milwaukee, and it usually takes an act of congress to get in for service. they would drive over their own mothers before deadheading us to the shop. i usually go to milwaukee by way of preston mn if i need service just so i can bring in a load.
I wonder how many companies operate like this? something like these new rules could break them 1-2-3.

[heavyhaulerss]

not trying to be a dick here but...if a driver does his job and checks his lights..brakes..etc. while at the same time run a legal logbook and drive close to the posted speed limit. change a headlight when it goes out..as soon as safely possible, etc. then there should be nothing to worry about. wanna be a cowboy then there will be trouble. the way i see it...nothing is changing.

Every thing has to go out sometime. you do pretrip & all is o.k. you drive 200 miles in bright daylight. over the 200 miles a side marker light, or other light goes out. maybe cause it it time to go out, or maybe cause of all the pot holes in the road. but it does not work now. only you dont know it, cause it worked when you checked. a D.O.T. pulls you over for a road side insp & when checking your lights, find's the one that is out, you get wrote up.

[GMAN]

I think that their time would be better spent if they concentrated on the things that would actually be a safety issue, such as brakes, air leaks, etc., I think that one reason, other than money, that these people are doing this is due to driver neglect. There are simply too many who don't take the time to properly check their equipment. From a company standpoint, when a driver has failed to check equipment it is something that the company has had to deal with. Now it is more of a shared responsibility issue. Drivers will be forced to be more conscientious about their assigned equipment or find another career. I think that there are good and negative aspects to these new rules.

[solo379]

Every thing has to go out sometime. you do pretrip & all is o.k. you drive 200 miles in bright daylight. over the 200 miles a side marker light, or other light goes out. maybe cause it it time to go out, or maybe cause of all the pot holes in the road. but it does not work now. only you dont know it, cause it worked when you checked. a D.O.T. pulls you over for a road side insp & when checking your lights, find's the one that is out, you get wrote up.

I'd have to agree on that. Light could go out, while you are walking from the back to the front.

[jburd]

Well there's a lot to read......maybe I need to find a job working at a truck stop....if you see an old man cleaning toilets wearing a swift hat and t-shirt it might be me.

[allan5oh]

not trying to be a dick here but...if a driver does his job and checks his lights..brakes..etc. while at the same time run a legal logbook and drive close to the posted speed limit. change a headlight when it goes out..as soon as safely possible, etc. then there should be nothing to worry about. wanna be a cowboy then there will be trouble. the way i see it...nothing is changing.

Just a question for ya there Chief, when do you think lights and headlights burn out?

[heavyhaulerss]

That is where the d.o.t. gets ya. they know EVERYTHING has to go out at some point in time. they just hope to catch you between the time it goes out & the time you are aware of it. weight, speed, any traffic violation, I will be responsible for. but a side marker light ,that went out during transit ? & I have spare to put it & the d.o.t. stills write's me up? maybe the law, but is not right. still not sure if this csa 2010 will hurt or help me.