split sleeper berth and independents

[stonefly]

I thought I might have better luck in this section.

Are there any independents here who would like to see the feds restore the split sleeper berth provision to HOS regulations?



stonefly

[heavyhaulerss]

yes I would

[mike3fan]

One thing I have learned is you have to know when to pick your battles and when to adjust. I have read the whole discussion on the other thread and personally it really isn't that big of a deal to me, I can run as much as I want and I can get enough rest to do my days work so this battle seems a bit useless to me.

When under the "old" HOS I hardly ever used the split sleeper berth and really don't feel that it is all that helpful for me. I actually use the split sleeper option under the current rules more than I ever used them under the old one.

If the power of OOIDA isn't getting things changed with their lobbying in D.C. then it becomes apparent that this a losing battle, of course this is just my opinion.

[stonefly]

yes I would

A couple of other truckers and I collected a lot of comments from the feds' web site. I believe the comments count for a lot. They were submitted 2 1/2 years after the split sleeper berth provision was taken from us. After 2 1/2 years of living with the mess, drivers made their comments at their first opportunity to do so. Nobody can realistically claim that their comments are a "knee jerk" reaction.

There never was a significant, specific, comment period offered for the split sleeper berth provision. The comment period for the 2003 rule changes should not be considered, because the removal of the split sleeper berth provision was only one of many possible considerations for inclusion in the new rules.

The comments we collected were the ones that protested the loss of split time. The comment period was actually designated by the feds for consideration of the 11th hour driving and the 34 hour restart provisions. The last time I looked, there were 3,500 comments.

In early 2008, we collected the comments that begged relief from our loss of split time. We didn't get them all, frankly because it was a lot of work. We read every comment. There were over 3,000 at the time. We have, I believe, over 400 comments on our web page. That's over 10%. Over 10% of the drivers who commented were more concerned with the loss of split time, even though the comment period was advertised to collect comments on the 11 hours and the 34 hour restart. If we'd have had more time to work on it, the percentage would be higher. That is a lot of drivers who feel aggrieved by the loss of the split sleeper berth provision of HOS rules.

I'm a driver, as you are. I let the matter lay for a while, because I had to drive and because I had work to do on my truck. I adapted to the new rules, but never will I be content with them. I worked a lot of years using split sleeper rules and made the best, most efficient use of my time, both sleeping and driving, under those rules. I feel that a federal mandate of 8 continuous hours of time in a bunk is an invasion of privacy, contrary to principles of safe operation, and makes difficult the efficient use of my time.

I am presently contemplating what should be the most efficient move to make at this point. It would seem to me that even though the comment period is officially over, the feds might be inclined to, or directed to, pay attention to the driver comments on their site.

I would like to know the names of the people who made the split time decision, and what exactly were the motives for their sudden and unanticipated directive.

Also, it would be a good idea at this point to stay informed with regard to other activity that is presently afoot, since there might be an opportunity for us to get this resolved quickly, if we're paying attention.

For starters, it would be a good idea to write to your congressmen and senators. It would probably also be a good idea to make a comment on the feds' website.

It has been a while since I have been at the feds' web site. I will try to locate the proper page for making a comment and post it here on the forum.

Thank you,



stonefly

[stonefly]

This is the comment page.

The fields with the blue # (pound sign), I believe are optional. Only the comment field below is mandatory. That is your comment. If you don't fill any other fields, I think it will be displayed as an "anonymous" comment.



stonefly

[Fredog]

I would

[stonefly]

I would

I appreciate it.

The best things I can think of at this point are the suggestions I made in my previous post.

It's encouraging that there are still drivers who know what split sleeper time really means are still wanting to have it restored as part of HOS rules.

I'm 62 years old, and I don't know how much longer I'll be driving. My health is still good, so maybe for a long time.

I feel like I have lost a great deal of my personal freedom when on the road, because of intrusive rules that tell me when to go and when to stop, instead of me being allowed to judge that for myself by my own rest requirements.

Let's make our voices heard, do what we can, and see what happens.



stonefly

[GMAN]

I would prefer that we get rid of logs altogether, but that isn't likely happen. I still use the split berth but it doesn't work as well as the old split berth. I can live with the current rules, but would prefer we went back to the old way and kept the 34 hour reset. The usually busy bodies are already at work to push for yet another change to the hos rules. MADD and the other's that are responsible for our current hos are attempting to change things again. My concern is that if we push too hard for changes then we will allow these people the window they desire to force changes we may not want or need. If the comment time has elapsed then it may not do any good to add more comments. On the other hand, if you can add a comment it can't hurt. The way the current hos are it encourages people to push longer than they should. If we were allowed to stop the clock then I think more would shut down earlier and operate more safely.

[stonefly]

I would prefer that we get rid of logs altogether, but that isn't likely happen. I still use the split berth but it doesn't work as well as the old split berth. I can live with the current rules, but would prefer we went back to the old way and kept the 34 hour reset. The usually busy bodies are already at work to push for yet another change to the hos rules. MADD and the other's that are responsible for our current hos are attempting to change things again. My concern is that if we push too hard for changes then we will allow these people the window they desire to force changes we may not want or need. If the comment time has elapsed then it may not do any good to add more comments. On the other hand, if you can add a comment it can't hurt. The way the current hos are it encourages people to push longer than they should. If we were allowed to stop the clock then I think more would shut down earlier and operate more safely.

The two things that trouble me the most are the loss of the split sleeper berth provision, which has already happened, and the mandatory use of EOBRs, which is looming.

The FMCSA is already considering the EOBR.

As I get back into this controversy, I do find more drivers who would like to go back to the split time rules.

I don't like to beat dead horses, but the split time we have now is not split sleeper berth. It is a split break, but only 8 hours of that break is mandatory bunk time. That's the same mandatory bunk time we always had. The 8 hours bunk time never changed. Before, we could split it up. Now, the 8 hours has to be done in one stretch.

That is why I don't understand why many drivers believe that there is a split sleeper berth provision in effect. The reason it could be trouble is that if enough drivers believe that in fact we do have a split sleeper berth provision, when we ask the feds to restore the true sleeper berth split as it existed before October 1st, 2005, they may think they can get away with telling us that we already have a split berth provision.

Things are not going to get any better for us if we do nothing. I know a lot of drivers are quite satisfied with the rules the way they are. In fact, for a lot of trucking operations, I would have to agree that the present rules are fine. For the kind of work I do, the present rules mess me up considerably. I've been living with them since 2005, but I have never learned to like them.

When the rules changed in 2004, I found in short order that they worked fine for me, and I don't there were many drivers who could not adapt well to the first change. The mandatory 8 consecutive hours with no clock stops for naps did mess me up. It messed up quite a lot of other drivers who still want to go back to the old rules.

I still talk to people who want the original split sleeper rules restored. They ask me, "What can we do?" They say, "If you hear of anything happening where we can make a concerted effort, let me know."

If you want to help out, the feds are still taking comments, I believe. The deadline for the comments to be considered was early last year. However, the comment page appears to be open. The last comment was in April. Additionally, the comment period never was designated for split sleeper berth comments. Yet many of the comments, perhaps the most outspoken comments, were the ones that asked for the restoration of split sleeper rules. So I believe it is still worthwhile to make a comment on the feds page, even if it is not technically requested at this time. You never know, it might be the one thing that will help us. You can always write to your congressmen and senators. If they hear about it enough, they may do something.


stonefly

[GMAN]

I agree that we need to make our voices heard. The best way is to contact our representatives. If you contact your representatives you need to plan and focus your comments and try to keep extraneous emotion out of it. Speak in a matter of fact manner and quoting facts would not hurt. One thing that has always worked against those who work in this industry are the drivers themselves. Most are unwilling to take a few minutes to write a letter or make a phone call to their representatives. It is easy to complain. It is quite another to take that first step to action.

[stonefly]

I have a plan.

Who would be willing to help by doing a little googling?

There are three particular areas of study involved. There have been studies done in these areas. I have seen them, but don't have them at my fingertips.

1. Studies indicating that drivers of 4 wheelers are at fault in the majority of collisions involving big trucks.

2. Studies indicating that fatigue is more of a factor in 4 wheeler collisions than it is in collisions involving big trucks.

3. Studies indicating that fatigue is low in the hierarchy of factors leading to big truck accidents.

The more studies we can find the better. No one can do it alone. Here is where we can work together.



stonefly

[Rev.Vassago]

So your plan is to point fingers at others. Interesting.

[GMAN]

I have a plan.

Who would be willing to help by doing a little googling?

There are three particular areas of study involved. There have been studies done in these areas. I have seen them, but don't have them at my fingertips.

1. Studies indicating that drivers of 4 wheelers are at fault in the majority of collisions involving big trucks.

2. Studies indicating that fatigue is more of a factor in 4 wheeler collisions than it is in collisions involving big trucks.

3. Studies indicating that fatigue is low in the hierarchy of factors leading to big truck accidents.

The more studies we can find the better. No one can do it alone. Here is where we can work together.



stonefly

It has been a while since I have looked at this. If I remember correctly, 76% of accidents involving trucks are the fault of a 4 wheeler. When you look at numbers you need to see how they were compiled. I believe that when these numbers were compiled that ALL trucks were put into the pool which included pickup trucks. You should be able to find these on the federal website. In fact, they are probably broken down by state. I don't recall seeing any figures that show fatigue involving 4 wheelers. There could be some studies done by the insurance industry. Some colleges have done studies. I believe Virginia Tech has done some studies involving crashes. In fact, I think they are one of the groups that did a study that found that it is safer for all traffic to travel at the same speed.

[Rev.Vassago]

It has been a while since I have looked at this. If I remember correctly, 76% of accidents involving trucks are the fault of a 4 wheeler. When you look at numbers you need to see how they were compiled.

The fact that this is the case is all the more reason why we, as professionals, need the tools to keep us from becoming a target for the general public. By adjusting the HOS regulations using proven scientific methods, it is putting us in a safer position to drive defensively.

In fact, the only real argument that I'm seeing against it is of the monetary variety, which does nothing to help with defensive driving.

[stonefly]

It has been a while since I have looked at this. If I remember correctly, 76% of accidents involving trucks are the fault of a 4 wheeler.

Can you find that study, GMAN?



stonefly

[GMAN]

There are crash statistics on the federal website. I don't recall whether these numbers came from their site or another study. I will see what I can find.

[stonefly]

Thanks



stonefly

[allan5oh]

I don't see any good reason to bring back split sleepers. It takes a few hours for a person to go into a "deep" sleep. Fragmented sleep is never good for you.

However what I would like to see changed is the 14 hour rule. I think any sleeper period 2 or more continuous hours should stop the 14 hour clock. That way someone can take a nap during the afternoon without worry, or a guy during the night can take a small nap and still make it to his destination. Then just take 8 hours to reset 11/14 hour rules. The way it is now if you take a 2 hour nap you actually have a 22 hour day if you do the 8/2 split, which is what they were trying to get away from.

Naps working against you is ridiculous.

[matcat]

Bah give up already, you aren't going to win against the government, it is a pointless battle. There are too many people with bigger pockets against it then you.

Don't get me wrong, I am not 'caving in' to government, but it is corrupt, the democratic way is gone. Want the split sleeper birth back? then grow bigger pockets then the opposition.

[matcat]

As a matter of fact, come up with a couple million $$$, and produce a 30 second commercial to be aired on prime time networks at prime time! If you put the 'safety' spin on it and show how the government is keeping us from getting the rest we need to do our jobs safely, and show it in a nice dramatic fashion, people love a good accident on TV, even better when it is a big rig! the american people will gobble it all up and a lot will voice their opinions!