Random O/O & trucking questions

[Oso]

I hope this is the right forum for this. Although I’m not a trucker I’ve been lurking around here as I have an interest in the trucking biz. Who knows - I might even try my hand out if the economy improves (Yes I've read all the "don't try it now" posts, so I consider myself warned). So here are a few random O/O questions that I had:

1. Generally speaking, does travelling on a freeway versus a 2 lane highway or country road affect your cost per mile? I’m thinking of the effects of lower speed & aerodynamics versus travelling on rougher pavement.

2. How much would you recommend spending on your 1st truck (i.e East-coast tractor w. sleeper, 80-90k gvw)? What sort of mileage/wear and tear could you reasonably expect? I've read that one should start with a solid but no frills aero truck - which makes sense to me.

3. As an independent, is there money to be made in regional trucking (i.e within Ontario/Quebec)? Or does one have to go OTR to make ends meet?

4. I've also been playing with load boards - but I can't see any of the rates. So, in the Ontario/Quebec region can you make decent money on runs that take you into rural areas, or is the money mostly in traveling on major highways to big cities? (I'm also assuming that you wouldn't take a rural job unless you could also find another load nearby that would get you home.)

5. I see a lot of flatbeds with odd shaped loads. Is it possible or desirable to improve your aerodynamics by tarping? How much of an effect might that have?

6. Curiosity: are northern trucks rustproofed (ie oil coated) on a regular basis - like we do for our cars?

Thanks in advance!

[firebird_1252]

1. no not really.. unless its a toll road. then most times (unless you are leased to a company) you have to pay tolls.

2. what i tell people is.. get the truck for the job! IE: if your running weight threw alot of hill.. more hp.. shorter gearing. also fuel milage has to be a factor. the things i'm looking at are generaly no weight (us mail). my boss has a single axle volvo getting close to 8mpg! 365 s60 detroit, 2.93 rear with a 10 speed rockwell. all on flat ground.

3. ther is ALWAYS money everywhere.. you just have to really look for it.. however chances are.. if the money is good.. someone took it already.

the other 3.. i'll leave to everyone else to answer

oh and on a second note.. i sugest signing on with a company before you take the plundge. me.. i've been around this business my entire life. i know the ups.. i know the downs and everything between. speaking of downs.. i'm off to bed. gotta be in the door at 4:30am. good luck!

[GMAN]

I hope this is the right forum for this. Although I’m not a trucker I’ve been lurking around here as I have an interest in the trucking biz. Who knows - I might even try my hand out if the economy improves (Yes I've read all the "don't try it now" posts, so I consider myself warned). So here are a few random O/O questions that I had:

1. Generally speaking, does travelling on a freeway versus a 2 lane highway or country road affect your cost per mile? I’m thinking of the effects of lower speed & aerodynamics versus travelling on rougher pavement.

It doesn't make any difference whether you travel on a freeway or 2 lane road as far as cost per mile is concerned. The difference could be which is shorter and has fewer stops such as going through small towns, traffic lights, etc., You will probably get better fuel mileage sticking with the interstate, but not always. If he route is shorter going 2 lane roads then I may take that route to save fuel but may go the interstate if I can save time. Lower speeds can help your mileage but if you are doing a lot of stopping and starting that will offset any potential savings.

2. How much would you recommend spending on your 1st truck (i.e East-coast tractor w. sleeper, 80-90k gvw)? What sort of mileage/wear and tear could you reasonably expect? I've read that one should start with a solid but no frills aero truck - which makes sense to me.

You should be able to find a good truck for less than $20,000, especially today with all the repo's. Wear and tear is something that is very individualized. Some people take care of their equipment and others abuse theirs. The type of driving, where you go and what you haul can also impact the type of equipment you should purchase.

3. As an independent, is there money to be made in regional trucking (i.e within Ontario/Quebec)? Or does one have to go OTR to make ends meet?

I don't know anything about current rates for in-country rates in Canada, but a friend of mine crosses the border on occasion and gets pretty decent rates for a flat bed. But that is going back and forth from the U.S. to Canada and back. I could not tell you about going back and forth from Quebec and Ontario.

4. I've also been playing with load boards - but I can't see any of the rates. So, in the Ontario/Quebec region can you make decent money on runs that take you into rural areas, or is the money mostly in traveling on major highways to big cities? (I'm also assuming that you wouldn't take a rural job unless you could also find another load nearby that would get you home.)

Sorry, someone else is going to need to answer this one. But, I expect truckers in Canada are deadheading more than a year ago just as we are.

5. I see a lot of flatbeds with odd shaped loads. Is it possible or desirable to improve your aerodynamics by tarping? How much of an effect might that have?

You might help your aerodynamics with tarping, but that is not the reason most people tarp. We tarp to protect the load.

6. Curiosity: are northern trucks rustproofed (ie oil coated) on a regular basis - like we do for our cars?

Thanks in advance!

As far as I know manufacturers don't rustproof big trucks, at least in the U.S. We get enough oil from the trucks and road to slow down the rust. We do try to wash the equipment more frequently when we have been in a lot of salt.

[Oso]

You might help your aerodynamics with tarping, but that is not the reason most people tarp. We tarp to protect the load.

Thnaks for the replies. I know that tarps are mainy used as protection, but I was wondering if there were ways to drop your cost by making your load more aerodynamic. I guess I'm interested in best practices that can keep your costs down and give you an edge.

As far as I know manufacturers don't rustproof big trucks, at least in the U.S. We get enough oil from the trucks and road to slow down the rust. We do try to wash the equipment more frequently when we have been in a lot of salt.

The rustproofing I was thinking of is an annual oil bath. It works pretty well with cars.

One other question: In your experience, how accurate are the prices on Truckpaper? How much wiggle room do you think there is between advertised prices and the final negotiated sale price? I'm asking for best guesses... well, unless you heppen to be a used truck salesman.

[GMAN]

There could be some aerodynamic benefit from using a tarp, but you still have something that is providing wind resistance whether it is tarped or not. I don't recall hearing about any sort of "oil bath" for trucks.

The Truckpaper is a good measure of what trucks are selling for across the country. They have regional editions that you may have seen. As far as negotiating room, it depends on how badly they want to sell their equipment. The economy plays a major part of the final selling price. I found my last truck in The Truckpaper. I don't recall how much the original selling price was but I believe that I saved about 10% on the advertised price and I negotiated a couple of minor repairs that the dealer agreed before buying. Actually, the sales manager was not pleased with the final tally after I had them fix a couple of things. You can sometimes get a better deal if you can find a motivated individual who really needs to sell his equipment. I probably check The Truckpaper than any other single commercial source to keep track of current prices. There is another called "Big Truck Trader" that you can find at most convenience stores. It is not free but they sometimes have some good values.

[heavyhaulerss]

I hope this is the right forum for this. Although I’m not a trucker I’ve been lurking around here as I have an interest in the trucking biz. Who knows - I might even try my hand out if the economy improves (Yes I've read all the "don't try it now" posts, so I consider myself warned). So here are a few random O/O questions that I had:

1. Generally speaking, does travelling on a freeway versus a 2 lane highway or country road affect your cost per mile? I’m thinking of the effects of lower speed & aerodynamics versus travelling on rougher pavement.

2. How much would you recommend spending on your 1st truck (i.e East-coast tractor w. sleeper, 80-90k gvw)? What sort of mileage/wear and tear could you reasonably expect? I've read that one should start with a solid but no frills aero truck - which makes sense to me.

3. As an independent, is there money to be made in regional trucking (i.e within Ontario/Quebec)? Or does one have to go OTR to make ends meet?

4. I've also been playing with load boards - but I can't see any of the rates. So, in the Ontario/Quebec region can you make decent money on runs that take you into rural areas, or is the money mostly in traveling on major highways to big cities? (I'm also assuming that you wouldn't take a rural job unless you could also find another load nearby that would get you home.)

5. I see a lot of flatbeds with odd shaped loads. Is it possible or desirable to improve your aerodynamics by tarping? How much of an effect might that have?

6. Curiosity: are northern trucks rustproofed (ie oil coated) on a regular basis - like we do for our cars?

Thanks in advance!

I used to haul plastic pipe , that required a tarp. it was like pulling an open parachut down the highway. killed my m.p.g. when I had the tarp off the wind just sailed thru the open pipe & I would get 2 m.p.g. more. same with some steel coils. hauling shotgun without tarp & the wind sail thri the eye of the coil. have it tarped & it catches more wind

Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]

[RostyC]

3. As an independent, is there money to be made in regional trucking (i.e within Ontario/Quebec)? Or does one have to go OTR to make ends meet?

I don't know about your area but I do better just running a small radius rather then going out. It's more work, a lot of strapping and unstrapping but I like that better then riding all day anyway.

[Oso]

I don't know about your area but I do better just running a small radius rather then going out. It's more work, a lot of strapping and unstrapping but I like that better then riding all day anyway.

How wide is your radius and what part of the country do you work in?

[RostyC]

How wide is your radius and what part of the country do you work in?

A lot of weeks my radius is about 100 mile of Baltimore MD, if things are moving, if not I have to go out a little farther.

[Hawkjr]

Are Western Star's good trucks?? there are plenty of 1998 - 2003 Stand up sleeper Western Star's that are 25000 and below..

[GMAN]

I have never owned a Western Star but those to whom I have spoken seem to like them. I did hear some negative things about the quality after Freightliner got involved with them. I would say that they are about as good as any other truck.

[avguy]

I see alot of Western Star trucks out in logging areas, so they must be reasonably durable.

[Oso]

Okay, here's another random question: what is the benefit of side kits on flatbeds? Easier tarping? Does it allow you to take different loads (i.e. van loads?) If you're not tied to a particular type of flatbed freight is it a good thing for an o/o to own?

I usually see them on steel carriers - and once I unloaded one filled with loose watermellons - by hand. (that was over 10 years ago and I still remember that day VERY clearly!!!)

[GMAN]

I have owned a side kit for many years. There are some shippers who require a side kit and won't load a regular flat. Onions are much easier to haul in a side kit and it does a much better job of protecting the product. Some shippers won't load copper tubing or aluminum coils on anything but a curtain side, Conestoga or side kit. When I pulled the kit I rarely had to break it completely down. If you haul a lot of steel such as coils it can save a considerable amount of tarp time. With some loads it can be beneficial having a kit to keep the tarp away from the product. I have hauled copper tubing that is loaded from the rear but must unload from the side. That is the reason some will load a side kit and not a van. It saves having to repair tarps when you can keep it away from sharp edges. There are times when you may still need to take your kit down but it is fairly easy to store in the nose or in an underneath carriage. It boils down to what you want to haul.

[Oso]

Here's a few more questions:

1. If you're interested in a used truck that doesn't have side fairings (ie. fuel tank covers) how easy is it to have these retrofitted? (And if you're a fan of fairings and other aerodynamic aids, is it generally worth it?)

2. Are there any advantages to dual exhaust stacks vs. a single?

3. I understand that Mack & other proprietary engines are more expensive to repair than a Cummins. Could someone offer an opinion about how much more a Mack engine (MP8) would cost per year - or perhaps over the lifetime of the engine.

[GMAN]

Here's a few more questions:

1. If you're interested in a used truck that doesn't have side fairings (ie. fuel tank covers) how easy is it to have these retrofitted? (And if you're a fan of fairings and other aerodynamic aids, is it generally worth it?)

I would not think it would be difficult to retrofit fairings. You just mount your brackets then bolt on the fairings. I was thinking about replacing a couple of fairings on my International several years ago. I believe that each panel cost about $700 each. I have 6 panels on that truck. The cost could vary from one brand to another. You may also find panels in a junk or salvage yard for less. Fairings are supposed to boost your fuel mileage but I don't recall how much. The down side to having fairings is that it is more difficult to get underneath to check or do things to the truck.

2. Are there any advantages to dual exhaust stacks vs. a single?

I don't know if there are any advantages to having dual stacks other than the look. I think the last truck that I had dual stacks on was a Peterbilt. You need to consider that it costs twice as much to replace your mufflers when the time comes.

3. I understand that Mack & other proprietary engines are more expensive to repair than a Cummins. Could someone offer an opinion about how much more a Mack engine (MP8) would cost per year - or perhaps over the lifetime of the engine.

I doubt that I would ever buy a truck that had a proprietary engine. I considered buying a Mack truck several years ago. The reason I decided against it was due to the Mack engine. It was a good engine but I knew that if I ever had a problem that I would most likely need to find a dealer. Dealers usually have higher labor rates and there may not be one where I need them. It can be difficult to find mechanics who will work on Mack, Volvo engines or Mercedes, for example. Another problem can be parts. At least that was a problem when I was thinking about buying one. Mack is a French company and may not have all parts available at the dealer or parts distributor. They could need to order them from abroad. That can cost time plus additional costs. It is much easier and less costly to buy Cummins, Detroit or Cat.

[Oso]

I doubt that I would ever buy a truck that had a proprietary engine. I considered buying a Mack truck several years ago. The reason I decided against it was due to the Mack engine. It was a good engine but I knew that if I ever had a problem that I would most likely need to find a dealer. Dealers usually have higher labor rates and there may not be one where I need them. It can be difficult to find mechanics who will work on Mack, Volvo engines or Mercedes, for example.

Is that because you run mostly OTR? Do you think that some regions have better networks for proprietary engines?

One of the reasons that I ask is that I've seen a lot of Volvos in the Toronto area (they seem to be just as popular as Freightliner & International) and I wonder if they've built up a good network in this area. I know that many Volvo's have a Cummins, but I've also seen a lot with D13's.

You're a storehouse of good info GMAN! Cheers!

[GMAN]

Is that because you run mostly OTR? Do you think that some regions have better networks for proprietary engines?

That is a major reason for not wanting a proprietary engine. If I worked mostly local then I would be more inclined to consider a proprietary engine. International Harvester and Paccar are coming out with their own engines. I would not want either of them due to the potential difficulty in getting someone to work on them. Parts might not be as much of an issue with these two brands since they should be made in the U.S. However, with Volvo the parts may need to come from outside the country. That could create delays in getting the truck moving. Even a complete overhaul on one of the big three engines would only take a day or so providing you can get into the garage. At least parts would be available. When you overhaul a diesel engine you may not always know what you will get into until you tear the engine down. That is why some overhauls cost more than others. For instance, I was quoted from just under $10,000 to about $18,000 to rebuild a CAT engine. That is a big gap in price. You can find the same thing in other engines. I have spoken to some who own Volvo engines and they seem to like them, especially the fuel mileage. If I would consider any proprietary engine it would be Volvo.

One of the reasons that I ask is that I've seen a lot of Volvos in the Toronto area (they seem to be just as popular as Freightliner & International) and I wonder if they've built up a good network in this area. I know that many Volvo's have a Cummins, but I've also seen a lot with D13's.

The situation may be a little different in Canada. If you stay mostly around Toronto then it might work for you to have a brand specific engine. Toronto is a big city and should have a good supply of parts if there are a lot of the brand in the area. That is something to check if you are considering purchasing one of them.

You're a storehouse of good info GMAN! Cheers!

I am glad to help, Oso.

[rank]

>1. Generally speaking, does travelling on a freeway versus a 2 lane highway or country road affect your cost per mile? I’m thinking of the effects of lower speed & aerodynamics versus travelling on rougher pavement.
Depends. For a given terrain, stopping and starting is probably the biggest mileage killer. Then speed. And don't forget OOR miles. Not uncommon for a company driver to drive 10% more miles on the same run as a smart operator.

>2. How much would you recommend spending on your 1st truck (i.e East-coast tractor w. sleeper, 80-90k gvw)? What sort of mileage/wear and tear could you reasonably expect? I've read that one should start with a solid but no frills aero truck - which makes sense to me.
Get what you need and no more.

>3. As an independent, is there money to be made in regional trucking (i.e within Ontario/Quebec)? Or does one have to go OTR to make ends meet?
ON-QC rates suck.

>4. I've also been playing with load boards - but I can't see any of the rates. So, in the Ontario/Quebec region can you make decent money on runs that take you into rural areas, or is the money mostly in traveling on major highways to big cities? (I'm also assuming that you wouldn't take a rural job unless you could also find another load nearby that would get you home.)
ON - QC rates suck

5. I see a lot of flatbeds with odd shaped loads. Is it possible or desirable to improve your aerodynamics by tarping? How much of an effect might that have?
You need to tarp a load. Nobody does that unless they have to.

6. Curiosity: are northern trucks rustproofed (ie oil coated) on a regular basis - like we do for our cars?
I've never heard of that. But I wonder about those electrical anti corrosion systems.

[Oso]

>2. How much would you recommend spending on your 1st truck (i.e East-coast tractor w. sleeper, 80-90k gvw)? What sort of mileage/wear and tear could you reasonably expect? I've read that one should start with a solid but no frills aero truck - which makes sense to me.
Get what you need and no more.

Let's fast forward a few years and assume that the worst of the recession is over. For the sake of argument let's say you have $25-30k for a downpayment and an appropriate amount left over for start-up & operating costs. All other things being equal, would you recommend getting buying a $15-20k truck, a $25-30k truck, or taking out a loan and getting something newer - say a $50k truck. Assume each has identical specs and an average amount of wear and tear.

>3. As an independent, is there money to be made in regional trucking (i.e within Ontario/Quebec)? Or does one have to go OTR to make ends meet?
ON-QC rates suck.

So if you were in Ontario and wanted to make some decent coin but not be out too long what routes would be attractive?

Also, I know that ON-QC rates suck now - but were they decent before the bust?