How would you go about getting your truck refurbished?

[lowrange]

I'm really close to a million miles now. I sat at the Grover Cleveland service plaza on the NJTPK tonight looking at a Truck Paper. What do they say, better the devil you know than the devil you don't- something like that?

Anyway, my truck is running great, but I'm concerned about taking it for granted. One of the bad things about buying a newer truck right now is losing this pre-EGR engine. So, I'm sitting here thinking, wouldn't it be better to put maybe $10,000 into the truck I have than to go out and spend $30,000 for a truck and then have to work all the bugs out of it?

Rutherford talks about changing the fuel lines on an older truck. I look at all the pulleys on the front of my ISX- one of them broke awhile back. Maybe it would be a good idea to replace all of those pulleys before they break again. But, what else? I don't know truck maintenance. Where could I go to have a shop go over my truck and replace things that look too worn and things that often break on older trucks? I guess all these rusty coolant tubes could be replaced. Hoses and rubber parts, too. So, who would do that? Would $10,000 be enough? I don't need engine work.

Rutherford works with some outfit that does glider kits. Probably a place like that would know what to look for to "refurbish" a million mile truck. I'm telling you, I get good oil samples and I add no oil between changes. No oil leaks, either. Anyway, ever dumped a bunch of money into an older truck trying to avoid blowing it on roadside service and wrecker fees? Ever refurbish a truck to take it up to a million and a half with confidence?

TIA

[BanditsCousin]

Any kind of bushing you can think of wears out and could possibly use replacement. Questionable fuel/air fittings and lines are also a good thing to look at. Since your pulley broke ( cumulative stress?) then replacing them all wouldn't be a bad Idea if its relatively cheap.

And get a Turbo 3000

[GMAN]

This company sells glider kits and trucks. It is my understanding that they will do as much or little as you want with a truck. They are near Crossville, TN I believe. You can see their facility from I-40. I don't know much about them. They advertise in The Truckpaper.

FITZGERALD TRUCK PARTS & SALES
Phone: (866)597-3836
or (931)277-3836


I am not sure that I would start replacing things that are not yet worn out. On the other hand, if it makes you feel more comfortable and can afford it, then I would go for it. You could start by replacing all air hoses from the compressor back. If you have never rebuilt or replaced the compressor, then that is something you could do. The air governor that comes out of the compressor is inexpensive and could be replaced. Replacing all heater and radiator hoses and clamps could save you some aggravation at some point. I know one guy who replaces his hoses each year as a preventative. I usually wait until the hoses feel soft. Hoses are not expensive if you can replace them yourself. You could go from the front to the sleeper. It is the ones going to the sleeper that many people forget to check.

You could pull the inspection plates on your rears to see if there is any metal fragments present. If so, there is a good likelihood you will need to replace your rear shortly. I know of one guy you replaces his rears when they get a certain number of miles on them regardless of their obvious condition. He may also rebuild the transmission. He has his own shop and can do the work himself. He will also regularly replace the lower engine bearings when the engine gets a certain number of miles on them. It is not very expensive to drop the oil pan and replace them. It is a good idea to at least have an inspection done on them. You could also replace your injectors and sleeves. If you plan on keeping the truck those are things you could do a little at a time until everything has been done. It isn't uncommon to drop an injector tip. If that happens then you are talking about some expensive engine work. An overhead should be done at regular intervals. That is another thing that is inexpensive. I know of some who do them annually and others who will do an overhead every 200,000-250,000 miles. It is a good way to check everything on top of the engine and replace it if needed.

Other things which are subject to fail at some point are air conditioner compressors and alternators. I used to keep a spare alternator in my truck. I am not suggesting you replace all these things, but they are things which could be done as a preventative. I would not replace the air conditioner compressor, but you could rebuild or replace the alternator if it has been on the truck for some time. Or you could get a spare alternator and have it on hand when the current one fails. They are not very expensive if you can buy one locally and are simple to change out yourself.

Suspensions are something that wear out on an older truck. Air bags and springs can be rebuilt or replaced. Air bags cost about $40. Springs and torsion bars can get into more money. I just spend $1,400 to replace torsion bars on my flat bed and do a couple of other minor things. It is an older flat bed and the bushings were not available so I had to have torsion bars made for it with new bushings. The torsion bars ran about $220 each. Had I been able to just replace the bushings it could have been done for about $18.00. So, I would look at all of your bushings and replace those that are worn. As your truck ages it may be more difficult to find some parts.

Check your fifth wheel for wear. King pins wear out at some point and will need to be replaces as will other front end parts. I usually don't replace front end parts until they need replacing. Keeping an eye on tire wear and having regular alignments done can spot potential problems before they get out of hand. If you grease your moving parts often you can minimize the wear and prolong life, especially on front end parts. One other thing that comes to mind are u-joints. Those will fail at some point. I believe the last one I replaced I paid about $25 or $35 for the part. If a u-joint fails you could be stuck on he side of the road. One fleet with whom I am familiar will replace their u-joints when the trucks get a certain number of miles as a preventative.

[RostyC]

I have an older truck Lowrange and the list grows every day with the things I'd like to do but some of the things I've done since I bought it was new power steering fluid lines, fuel lines, silicone coolant hoses. Over the summer I'd like to start replacing some air lines. Other things I've done is just basic maintenance, brakes, shocks, etc...

I need new air filter cans and I think I'm going with Stainless steel ones so I don't have to paint the whole truck to match the new cans, otherwise I like the painted ones. Front end (brackets, bushings and springs)and a power steering pump are my next hurdles. Gotta get the A/C fixed soon too. I'd also like to focus on the driveline as well.

Having said all that I see now the argument between new and old, I've had my eye on an 07 Pete but I go back and forth about having payments versus fixing mine up. You don't see many 359's out there. I think the main reason I'd like to upgrade is the ride comfort, this air leaf will beat you up a bit. The 07 I'm looking at has the Pete flex air suspension.

[GMAN]

Lowrange, I replaced my steering gear box a couple of years ago. It started leaking and would have cost nearly as much to rebuild as it did to buy a new one, so I opted for the new gear box. Those are not cheap on an International. I don't remember the exact cost, but it was several hundred dollars.

[RostyC]

Lowrange, I replaced my steering gear box a couple of years ago. It started leaking and would have cost nearly as much to rebuild as it did to buy a new one, so I opted for the new gear box. Those are not cheap on an International. I don't remember the exact cost, but it was several hundred dollars.

Close to a thousand I've been told. I'm learning quick......nothing on this truck is cheap. I'm putting stop leak in mine till I can get it replaced. It's not a real bad leak though. Also putting stop leak in my radiator.

[lowrange]

Ok, good stuff. Will pass on a second go at the Vada, though.

Fitzgerald is the guy Kevin works with, it might be a good idea to give them a call.

The things I'd want refurbished are the things that can leave you on the side of the road. If the air conditioner went out (already replaced), I could man up to finish my load. The hoses, these rusty tubes... Front end parts should be inspected but I don't believe they will just fail on you in the middle of a load.

All the engine manufacturers have a range of packages designated for rebuilds, I wish I knew some place that has a standardized inspection/refurbishing program targeting the most important things.

[lowrange]

Lowrange, I replaced my steering gear box a couple of years ago. It started leaking and would have cost nearly as much to rebuild as it did to buy a new one, so I opted for the new gear box. Those are not cheap on an International. I don't remember the exact cost, but it was several hundred dollars.

Several hundred dollars!? Man, the control to my heating and airconditioning- a little plastic panel piece- that was $300! My steering shaft, the part alone was $800.

Anyway, as I said, I'd like to target the things that can cause you to be late on a delivery or leave you on the side of the road. The things that make noises or feel stiff or cause the truck to shake or give you any kind of a warning well before complete failure- I don't see a need to preemptively replace any of that.

[GMAN]

Personally, I would not start replacing expensive parts. I have had rears go out without any notice. Pulling the inspection plate and taking a look can often spot potential problems before they fail, but that is no guarantee. If you want to replace potential failures then I would suggest the heater and radiator hoses. Air hoses can become brittle with time, especially if they are plastic, but I would not start replacing them until they failed. I don't recall ever having an air hose to fail quickly other than on one occasion. I had one to break at a truck stop in California several years ago. It was one of the glad hand lines. It was made out of plastic. I kept noticing a drop in air pressure but could never find the leak. Finally, the part failed completely and broke. I replaced the line and all was well.

You can take your truck to any good mechanic for an inspection. I am not talking about a DOT inspection but one that will check everything to see if anything needs to be replaced. They will likely charge you by the hour to check things out. You could probably find an independent garage that would do it for much less than a dealer. These dealers charge an arm and leg to do anything. Of course, you could take it to a dealer and I am sure they will find plenty of things to replace.

[Maniac]

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Friend of mine recently spent $9000.00 at Peterbilt replacing both rears, reason: they had 1 million miles on them, that was his only reason.

When my front rear went out in Augusta Ga, with the towing and ALL the incedentals it cost me $2900.00, blew it on Sat morning and was rolling Tuesday at noon.

Save your money, don't start replacing stuff just because it has a million miles on it, lots of those components have the capability of much more than 1 million, I figure if they go a million, lets see how much more I can get.

[allan5oh]

Simply come up with a good maintenance program and inspect your truck well. Some items should be replaced periodically, but for big ticket items there's no point. Engines can give warning signs they're about to go, less oil pressure, funny sounds, and bad oil samples as well as blow by and smoke.

[GMAN]

Several years ago I had an injector put in at the CAT dealer in Denver. While there I met a guy driving a Peterbilt with over 1,300,000 miles on the engine. He was having injector sleeves installed. He said that he hasn't spent much money on his truck for major repairs. The engine had never had any major work performed.

I agree with some of the others about not replacing major components until they fail. Do the little things along. Those can be a real aggravation but won't break you. As long as you take care of your maintenance then you should not have to sorry too much about things. Go ahead and put money back for those major repairs. They will happen at some point. It will be best to be ready when they do.

[lowrange]

Yeah, I just don't know much about maintenance, and honestly, it's not something I'm inclined to read about in a book. I was just hoping there would be well thought out programs already in place- things I might not think about myself. One thing that always gets me, there's a part of the drive shaft with rust pits. I've asked about it before but was told it's thick metal and not to worry about it. Not sure if the mechanic really knew what he was talking about. I just want to get ahead of the game. Look, if my hoses will need to be replaced in the next 500,000 miles, why wait til one breaks, right? Replace it now before I lose my coolant all over the side of the interstate and have to get it replaced anyway. Rutherford highly suggests the fuel lines. Hey, I never would have thought about that unless someone had told me. What else am I not thinking about?

[allan5oh]

Todays silicon hoses last a long time, I'm talking a good 5-6 years. Honestly the OEM's recommendations are usually best. It's always best to change things before they break, but it's never good throwing out or trading in good equipment. I can give you a quick list of things I do.

Batteries - every 2 years because I'm hard on them
Alternators - every 2 years
Starters - every 5 years
Hoses - every 5 years, or depending on condition(oil/diesel will destroy them)
Belts - every 2 years
Transmission oil - 500,000 miles(OEM recommendation with synthetic)
Gear oil - every 3 years(OEM is a lot longer then that but I'm not a fan)
Power steering oil/filter - every year (OEM)
Air filter - once a year
Shocks - generally every 3 years, or if they start leaking
Air dryer - desiccant, purge valve, and heater every fall, change whole unit every 5 years
Valve set - OEM recommendations, I do it on my d12 once a year

When I do maintenance once a month, it is much more thorough then anywhere else. Of course I'm very tuned into my equipment and I know what to look for. This maintenance includes:

- Full grease job, although some items don't need grease at all(front slacks will blow seals if I grease them any more)
- Removing clutch cover and inspecting pressure plate(mostly checking for broken springs), check engagement, adjustment, and clutch brake condition
- Full brake inspection, brake stroke, wheel seal leaks(oil on drum), check for broken parking springs in brake chambers, make sure the slacks are adjusting properly
- Remove top plugs in diffs and clean. Check oil level, and quickly swap with bottom plugs(to prevent oil draining). Check/clean bottom plugs reinstall on top
- Check belts and alignment, all hoses, every inch of exhaust system
- Check battery terminals for corrosion and looseness
- Check alignment(toe in)
- Check front wheel bearings/oil
- Check for air leaks, spray air bags and fittings with soapy water

Whenever I replace or repair something, I always try to improve the design and/or prevent corrosion. One of my favorites is stainless steel bolts. Quick disconnect air fittings are a PITA, I always try to change them out with compression fittings. They always leak.

Some examples of improving are putting in better batteries, gear reduction starters(39mt or denso), delco-remy 35si, 36si, or 40si alternators, oil bypass filters, extended life oil filters, haldex lifeseal brake chambers, red coolant, synthetic oils, magnets to catch iron, compression fittings, stainless steel(bolts/hardware/brackets) on and on....

I also have a lot of spare parts. Hoses, belts, filters, purge valve, air fittings, air lines, alternator, fuses, lights, relays, breakers, wiring, fluids, and LOTS of tools.

Wear items that are high $ suchs as kingpins(looseness), springs(looseness, clunking), clutches(rattling/clanging), bushings(cracking and falling apart), motor mounts(cracking, falling apart), CAC(test with CAC kit), radiator(leaking), turbo(whining), air compressor etc... are changed on "it needs changed" basis. Usually you can catch this kind of stuff before it goes. U-joints should last a long time if the drive line alignment is correct and they're greased properly(some only need every 300,000 miles, do it before that you're actually hurting them).

Other things that you can do include oil analysis, and many engines have some sort of diagnostics. For example most engines you can do an "idle injector test" that tests how much each cylinder is contributing. Dyno/blowby tests can reveal problems as well. Manual compression tests as well.

Simply rebuilding your truck as new and expecting it to last forever is a recipe for disaster. You need to learn what your truck needs! Even brand new trucks need maintenance within the first year.

[lowrange]

Oh, that hurts my head. Whenever I look at anything mechanical, my first response is deer in the headlights...ddduuuuuhhhhh......

It's only when I actually get my hands on something that I begin to feel comfortable. I don't have a shop and I'll be honest, I hate getting under my truck.

Even so, I saved that checklist. I've got to do some of this stuff. It's not likely I'll be taking soapy water to my airbags anytime soon but I didn't know alternators go out so quickly. Alternators don't just die overnight, do they?

I had an airleak behind the dash. It has stopped leaking for whatever reason. Now, that's my idea of maintenance.

[lowrange]

I better respond to this point by point

Batteries - every 2 years because I'm hard on them new, check
Alternators - every 2 years last time it gave me problems with my autoshift, so that's what I'll wait for (I still should be able to get it into a shop)
Starters - every 5 years not that old, check
Hoses - every 5 years, or depending on condition(oil/diesel will destroy them) I probably ought to do this. The lease purchase truck I had left me on the side of the highway
Belts - every 2 years broke last year. I was able to make it to a shop, thank you, Jesus. check
Transmission oil - 500,000 miles(OEM recommendation with synthetic) Three box not so long ago, check
Gear oil - every 3 years(OEM is a lot longer then that but I'm not a fan)
Power steering oil/filter - every year (OEM) News to me. Ok.
Air filter - once a year On it. check
Shocks - generally every 3 years, or if they start leaking relatively new, I check tire wear, for one. 45,000lbs of liquid, I may change them early
Air dryer - desiccant, purge valve, and heater every fall, change whole unit every 5 years I'm not lying, I don't know what this is
Valve set - OEM recommendations, I do it on my d12 once a year Not so long ago, I want to find a place that'll do it for less than $400

When I do maintenance once a month, it is much more thorough then anywhere else. Of course I'm very tuned into my equipment and I know what to look for. This maintenance includes:

- Full grease job, although some items don't need grease at all(front slacks will blow seals if I grease them any more) Speedco?
- Removing clutch cover and inspecting pressure plate(mostly checking for broken springs), check engagement, adjustment, and clutch brake condition I'm thinking when it starts failing, I'll still be able to get to a shop
- Full brake inspection, brake stroke, wheel seal leaks(oil on drum), check for broken parking springs in brake chambers, make sure the slacks are adjusting properly company mandatory quarterly inspection!?
- Remove top plugs in diffs and clean. Check oil level, and quickly swap with bottom plugs(to prevent oil draining). Check/clean bottom plugs reinstall on top Speedco!
- Check belts and alignment, all hoses, every inch of exhaust system reminds me, I want to get a freeflow muffler. Exhaust pipe is new from muffler to the flex coming off the engine.
- Check battery terminals for corrosion and looseness Yeah, I keep meaning to clean my terminals. A corroded wire at my cut off switch cost me a late delivery. Thankfully, I was at a TA that night. Since then, all the those connectors have been replaced.
- Check alignment(toe in) I just pay attention to any pull and respond accordingly. check, I hope.
- Check front wheel bearings/oil Mine are sealed
- Check for air leaks, spray air bags and fittings with soapy water Probably not in this lifetime.

Whenever I replace or repair something, I always try to improve the design and/or prevent corrosion. One of my favorites is stainless steel bolts. Quick disconnect air fittings are a PITA, I always try to change them out with compression fittings. They always leak.

Some examples of improving are putting in better batteries, gear reduction starters(39mt or denso), delco-remy 35si, 36si, or 40si alternators, oil bypass filters, extended life oil filters, haldex lifeseal brake chambers, red coolant, synthetic oils, magnets to catch iron, compression fittings, stainless steel(bolts/hardware/brackets) on and on.... Maybe I should have one of those Visi-checks done. You know, the vibration. Opinion?

I also have a lot of spare parts. Hoses, belts, filters, purge valve, air fittings, air lines, alternator, fuses, lights, relays, breakers, wiring, fluids, and LOTS of tools. Plenty of duct tape. check.

Wear items that are high $ suchs as kingpins(looseness), springs(looseness, clunking), clutches(rattling/clanging), bushings(cracking and falling apart), motor mounts(cracking, falling apart), CAC(test with CAC kit), radiator(leaking), turbo(whining), air compressor etc... are changed on "it needs changed" basis. Usually you can catch this kind of stuff before it goes. Groovy U-joints should last a long time if the drive line alignment is correct and they're greased properly(some only need every 300,000 miles, do it before that you're actually hurting them).

Other things that you can do include oil analysis, and many engines have some sort of diagnostics. For example most engines you can do an "idle injector test" that tests how much each cylinder is contributing. Dyno/blowby tests can reveal problems as well. Manual compression tests as well. oil analysis, check.

Simply rebuilding your truck as new and expecting it to last forever is a recipe for disaster. You need to learn what your truck needs! Even brand new trucks need maintenance within the first year.

[matcat]

I had an airleak behind the dash. It has stopped leaking for whatever reason. Now, that's my idea of maintenance.

Probably a gladhand that wasn't sitting right

[lowrange]

Probably a gladhand that wasn't sitting right

Actually, this one was up in there behind the dash. I've been all up in there already. That's part of the reason I didn't want to do it again.

[YerDaddy]

Alternators don't just die overnight, do they?

They sure do, literally! My original Delco with @ 400K miles on truck died one cold and windy night in OK. So cold I had the heater full blast and truck idling at 900 rpm. I awoke at 4:00 am as the engine shut off and I'm wondering what the heck just happened and I'm gonna be freezing my nads off in short order. Try to start truck... nothing. Volt gauge low. OK my scientific brain now realizes what just happened. Solenoid on fuel pump hung in there until voltage dropped to about 10 volts which happened quickly since the blowers were on high speed. So I put on a few layers of clothes and shivered under the covers until the KW shop 2 blocks up the road opened up. They came and jumped me and charged batteries enough to drive to shop and put in new alternator under warranty of course.

I put in an amp gauge after that so I knew if the alternator was charging or not before I get another nice surprise.
[hr]

Your post sounds more like PM than refurbishment. I would think refurbishing would include things like new upholstery, new paint job, chrome, lights.

For a guy who doesn't care to get intimate with your truck's parts, refurbishing/rebuilding could get expensive. Give me $30,000 and 6 months and I'll get her fixed up for ya!

[lowrange]

They sure do, literally! My original Delco with @ 400K miles on truck died one cold and windy night in OK. So cold I had the heater full blast and truck idling at 900 rpm. I awoke at 4:00 am as the engine shut off and I'm wondering what the heck just happened and I'm gonna be freezing my nads off in short order. Try to start truck... nothing. Volt gauge low. OK my scientific brain now realizes what just happened. Solenoid on fuel pump hung in there until voltage dropped to about 10 volts which happened quickly since the blowers were on high speed. So I put on a few layers of clothes and shivered under the covers until the KW shop 2 blocks up the road opened up. They came and jumped me and charged batteries enough to drive to shop and put in new alternator under warranty of course.

I put in an amp gauge after that so I knew if the alternator was charging or not before I get another nice surprise.
[hr]

Your post sounds more like PM than refurbishment. I would think refurbishing would include things like new upholstery, new paint job, chrome, lights.

For a guy who doesn't care to get intimate with your truck's parts, refurbishing/rebuilding could get expensive. Give me $30,000 and 6 months and I'll get her fixed up for ya!

Hmpf. I've got a voltmeter, but I don't know about the amp gauge. When I first got my truck I was having trouble with the autoshift. Turned out the problem was with the alternator. If that would happen again, that might be just the clue I need to replace the alternator. The autoshift didn't fail completely, it just gave me enough headaches until I made it a point to get it into the shop.

Refurbish might not be the best word. Seriously though, I was hoping someone would offer a service of going over the truck with a fine toothed comb and preparing a project list to set the truck up for hundreds of thousands more miles. Now that I think about it, Rutherford has talked about a managed maintenance program where they keep track of things like the alternator's life and change it out before it has a problem. Maybe I ought to go over there and ask who was doing that.

Oh, but I do need a new seat. The plastic holding my cigarette lighter is broken, too. I keep a pair of underwear in between where my cabinet doors close to keep them from rattling. My truck could use a new top coat of paint. Things like that.

The original premise is that the alternative of going out and spending 30-60 thousand on another truck with who knows whatever bugs such a truck would have- now all of a sudden the idea of fixing up the truck I have starts sounding cheap.