Should i jump ship as an “indie” or buy a 2nd truck?long!

[henboy1]

All equipment paid for.
At 36, married with no kids and I am seriously looking at my future of just sitting back and dispatching 2 trucks as Merrick,Gman or bigD.Not necessarily trying to be like them but I think I have put in enough time to be able to do so.


I was planning on jumping ship to an “indie”.After 8 months of constantly
talking to people and checking out every avenue and site, I have finally decided to jump ship in February.
With a credit score of 810 across all 3,my quote from Northland a month ago was $5600, which is much cheaper than anyone I have talked to.
This includes collision (truck and trailer 30k),100k cargo and 1 million liab.As I have stated many times, I have always had my base plate.I have also saved 6 grand for this “l
eap” .This will include $2500 for the insurance down payment at $400/month,$500 for miscellaneous(load board,KYU permits,signs,1st month of IFTA,1st year inspection,BOC 3 and other petty expenses)expenses.The next $3500 will be for fuel for 3 weeks until the checks start coming in.I don’t run hard and so I plan on running only 1800m/week and this will be around $1100-$1200/week in fuel .I figure I can probably make about 35cpm more being an indie than where I am.I figure, if I am paying $3500/yr to my company for insurance,HCP,LCN,IFTA,Transflo why not pay $5600/yr to be an indie with about 35cpm
mre in gross.I have had accounts for
www.eflatbed.com
getloaded.com
internettruckstop.com
chrobinson.
I have monitored these sites for about 5 months and I have even called about the same loads that was posted on landstaronline and on getloaded or ITS to verifiy the difference in rates.There is room for neg. with your authority and deadhead is less and not to forget the actual miles on ITS and getloaded (most miles posted is close to hub miles or ms street and trips)compared to the straight line miles with LS.




It just dawned on me last night.I have a friend who is dieing to drive for me.He is currently with Hornady pulling those BS lumber and tarping.I am also thinking about getting a 2nd truck where I will let him do containers(I did that for 8 months before quitting)locally and only base plate it for GA,TN,AL,SC,NC and FL which will cost about a grand with actual miles stated.This guy seem to change jobs and in only a yr of getting his CDL,he has already
been with 5 companies.I think I can put a leash on him if he works for me.He pretty much listens
to everything I say except the many carriers he went with in only 1 yr.
.
I may need to teach him more about securing complex machinery as I have mostly done with landstar and if I let him pull this stepdeck.



The main question is, should I go get my AUTHORITY or add more to my saved money and get a 2nd truck for this guy to run containers with and then wait until maybe april to go independent.So, it is either get a 2nd truck for containers and stay where I am until maybe April or forget the 2nd truck for now and just jump ship and then buy the 2 nd truck in april.I am looking at what may be more wise and less of a risk.With the snap of a finger I can get a truck for less than 10grand which can run OTR.The long term for this 2nd truck will be to haul reefer since it will be harder to find drivers willing to pull flats or steps than a van/reefer.BTW ,I am currently studying the reefer market.
90% of all BCOs know their cost to operate and so that is elementary.
What do you think as far as my future plans?Sorry for the long post.

[Red Clay Rambler]

I've heard those with their own authority say it sometimes takes more like 30-45 days for their first checks to start arriving, unless you would consider factoring, then I guess your first payments would be alot sooner. Didn't want you to underestimate how long it might be before you start getting paid.

Just curious, you mention paying 3500 per year to LS for "insurance,HCP,LCN,IFTA,Transflo". What are HCP and LCN?

I would feel more comfortable getting the authority first, run for awhile and then add the second truck if things still look and feel good.

[solo379]

You don't really have to look for trouble that hard! When the time comes, it will find you anyway!

[rank]

I thought you happy as a pig in slop with that new step Hen.

I think if you base your business plan around $.10/mile profit on all miles, you'd ne in the ballpark. You might get more, but better safe than sorry. There are sooooo, many more expenses that you have when you start hiring drivers. You really become much less efficient.

They will break stuff.
They will get poor fuel mileage.
They will want to be paid to wait.
They will want to be paid to tarp.
They will run up your cell phone bill.
They will drive OOR to "go by the house" get more miles in less time.
You will need to test for drugs.
You might need a GPS tracking system like Merrick has.
They will have accidents and your insurance will go up.
They will get speeding tickets and your insurance will go up.
They will pi$$ off brokers and shippers and you will lose accounts.

Anyway, I have some questions:

-How much (on a per mile basis) do you figure your costs are now?
-What are you averaging per loaded mile now?
-What are you taking home (before taxes) with LS?
-What are you averaging per mile including DH now?
-How much do you think you'll be able to get per mile with your own authority?

[rank]

I can only speak for round trips from Baltimore, Phillie to Ontario, Canada, but stepdeck freight is being offered at $2/mile these days. Then you're looking at $1.50 and 75 miles of DH. So you're looking at $1.63/mile for all miles on that rounder. Fuel and driver will eat up $1, leaving you $.63 to cover all your other expenses.

I have even called about the same loads that was posted on landstaronline and on getloaded or ITS to verifiy the difference in rates.There is room for neg. with your authority...

Ahhh, yeah. Right. Sometimes we can even negoiate UP to what the LS BCO's get, but we never get more. The agents favourite line is, "I'll put it on a Landstar truck before I pay that."

...deadhead is less....

That is true.

[/quote]...and not to forget the actual miles on ITS and getloaded (most miles posted is close to hub miles or ms street and trips)compared to the straight line miles with LS.[/quote]
This was meant to be funny right? You still need to map the route on the software to get the miles. Even if the website is close with the miles, the broker will post different cities to shorten the miles. This is tough enough to do for yourself, and nigh on impossible for a second truck if you're driving truck 1.

[henboy1]

I've heard those with their own authority say it sometimes takes more like 30-45 days for their first checks to start arriving, unless you would consider factoring, then I guess your first payments would be alot sooner. Didn't want you to underestimate how long it might be before you start getting paid.

Just curious, you mention paying 3500 per year to LS for "insurance,HCP,LCN,IFTA,Transflo". What are HCP and LCN?

I would feel more comfortable getting the authority first, run for awhile and then add the second truck if things still look and feel good.

I will try to answer all the questions in one response
Redclay the LCN is the load subscription/load alert which is 3.69/week and the HCP is the occupational hazard at I think 31.99/week.


Quote:
I have even called about the same loads that was posted on landstaronline and on getloaded or ITS to verifiy the difference in rates.There is room for neg. with your authority...

Ahhh, yeah. Right. Sometimes we can even negoiate UP to what the LS BCO's get, but we never get more. The agents favourite line is, "I'll put it on a Landstar truck before I pay that."


Rank, without you and I going back and forth I have been on both sides of the fence when it comes to dealing with our loadboard and ITS/GL.Every call I made on LS board has almost no room for negotiation except when they see your truck and call.Go ask the guys on www.bcoforum.com
Yes you can negotiate with our agents but at what percent statistically speaking or out of a 100 calls you make to these agents as an outside carrier can you negotiate.


Anyway, I have some questions:

-How much (on a per mile basis) do you figure your costs are now?
-What are you averaging per loaded mile now?
-What are you taking home (before taxes) with LS?
-What are you averaging per mile including DH now?
-How much do you think you'll be able to get per mile with your own authority?
I don't think I want to post what I make per mile unless I am the REV or Steve, but I will tell you what, with my own authority my cost per mile is $1.02

Rank for your info:Approved Carriers only make 80% of the money.For example, I see a load from atlanta to houston from our landstaronline.com for 1750 gross and that same load on your carrier board will be posted for 1450.I am getting 75% X1750 and you're getting 1450.


Pros with LS
1.Your're paid weekly
2.You haul many machinery and military loads that independents usually do not haul.The closest outfit that usually hauls machinery than LS is Bennett.
3.The gross rate on ITS/GL is about 10cpm less than what is posted on LS board.
4.you get paid weekly and you money is guaranteed
5.LCAPP helps you in loaning you funds to fix your equipemment at a low interest rate.

Cons:
1.They nickle and dime on deductions and I know many BCOs who have about $450 deductions/month
2.You better send in your 120 day inspection,truck/trailer monthly report and logs on a timely manner or they will put a block on your fuel card.They are very strict when it comes to compliance as they say on their trailers.
3.More deadhead and especially now a days in these slow periods, and imagine being paid on straight line miles.(more like 100+ miles on the flats side per load)
4.I could barely book 2 loads in advance.
5.The agents are not as regualated as the drivers.
There are many but I cannot get into all of them.
I have studied Gl,ITS,MembersEdge,CH robinson and Eflatbed rates and so I can pretty much conclude on LS rates to the outside world.

Personally I am jumping because I don't have to answer to the 120 days but rather yearly.There are too many deductions and I hate dealing with compliance.The difference I will make in the rate is about 25cpm with my own authority.
I am leaning towards not buying a truck as two members mentioned on here.

I am doing well with LS but I need more freedom to do what I want to do and God forbid, I am not signing on with another carrier and I will have enough money to wait 20-30days to get paid.
If I had to pay 8000-9000 for insurance for my business, would stay where I am but at 5600 that is a deal.My gross is more compared to when I started hauling platform freight and bought my trailer.
LS is one of the best trucking companies out there but I can still do better.

[GMAN]

If you run your own authority I would suggest you not jump in to buying another truck until you settle into your new venture. We are in a troubled time. Freight and rates are down considerably across the country. Running your own authority would offer you more flexibility on the type of loads you can haul. There are a lot of brokers who handle military freight other than Landstar and Bennett. Mercer does a lot of military freight as do others. Landstar has been doing quite a bit of double brokering the last few years although most of their agents will deny it. Most of the larger brokers offer quick pay for a discount on the bill. Most want a discount from 1 1/2-8%. You can also factor some of your loads to get started. If you plan on financing your own receivables I think you will find that you will probably need more money to run you than you have shown in your numbers. At current fuel costs it is easy to spend $2,000+- per week for fuel for each truck.

It will take longer than you think to get the money coming back in. Most brokers pay in 30 days. That is 30 days from the time that they receive the bill. If you send the bill right out count on up to a week for them to receive it. If they pay in 30 days and mail you a check then you are looking at about 6 weeks to get the money coming back, minimum. The greatest challenge new people have is financing their business.

[rank]

Rank for your info:Approved Carriers only make 80% of the money.For example, I see a load from atlanta to houston from our landstaronline.com for 1750 gross and that same load on your carrier board will be posted for 1450.I am getting 75% X1750 and you're getting 1450.

I believe I understand the system. I don't think the agents don't have any rules to follow when dealing with LS approved guys like me. There is no firm fixed rate (like 80% or any other AFAIK).

I was talking to an agent a while back who he told me that he makes more money by selling the load to a LS approved carrier (for less money) than he does selling it to a BCO. They always try to peddle the loads to LS approved guys for less than what they pay you.

I moved a bunch of AC units about a year ago...we got less than the BCO's did.

But maybe I'm wrong so let's try this as an experiment. What does Landstaronline pay you for the load currently posted from Lexington Park, MD to hastings, ON?

As far as all of my other questions about what your current costs are and what your projected earnings as a carrier are....well I was just trying to get more info to answer your original question. I doubt if anyone can give you a truthful answer without that info.

[henboy1]

I believe I understand the system. I don't think the agents don't have any rules to follow when dealing with LS approved guys like me. There is no firm fixed rate (like 80% or any other AFAIK).

I was talking to an agent a while back who he told me that he makes more money by selling the load to a LS approved carrier (for less money) than he does selling it to a BCO. They always try to peddle the loads to LS approved guys for less than what they pay you.

I moved a bunch of AC units about a year ago...we got less than the BCO's did.

But maybe I'm wrong so let's try this as an experiment. What does Landstaronline pay you for the load currently posted from Lexington Park, MD to hastings, ON?

As far as all of my other questions about what your current costs are and what your projected earnings as a carrier are....well I was just trying to get more info to answer your original question. I doubt if anyone can give you a truthful answer without that info.

Rank, there is no such load posted on www.landstaronline.com.Maybe it is offered to you guys and not us and sometimes vice versa.You can give me more examples and I will check.Yes, we all know they make more brokering the loads to approved carriers.Years ago we use to get a shot at the loads before it hits the carrier board but now things have changed, it sometimes hits both boards.I mentioned regualated as far as strict guidelines with the agents dealing with BCOs or the agents having rules to follow just like the BCOs.We can both call about loads posted on both boards, yes the agent will prefer an approved carrier but if they have a direct shipper they are more scared to put that load on an approved carriers truck than a BCO.This notion goes both ways.few agents have told me this.


If you run your own authority I would suggest you not jump in to buying another truck until you settle into your new venture. We are in a troubled time. Freight and rates are down considerably across the country. Running your own authority would offer you more flexibility on the type of loads you can haul. There are a lot of brokers who handle military freight other than Landstar and Bennett. Mercer does a lot of military freight as do others. Landstar has been doing quite a bit of double brokering the last few years although most of their agents will deny it. Most of the larger brokers offer quick pay for a discount on the bill. Most want a discount from 1 1/2-8%. You can also factor some of your loads to get started. If you plan on financing your own receivables I think you will find that you will probably need more money to run you than you have shown in your numbers. At current fuel costs it is easy to spend $2,000+- per week for fuel for each truck.

It will take longer than you think to get the money coming back in. Most brokers pay in 30 days. That is 30 days from the time that they receive the bill. If you send the bill right out count on up to a week for them to receive it. If they pay in 30 days and mail you a check then you are looking at about 6 weeks to get the money coming back, minimum. The greatest challenge new people have is financing their business.

GMAN,Your advice is well taken and I also believe that I am not ready to buy 2nd truck.Like I said above, I do not burn $2,000/week in fuel and only around $1000-$1200/week at 1800m-1900m/week and so $3600 for fuel (and $3000 for insurance and miscellaneous)for about 3 weeks while factoring 1 or 2 bills should be enough to get me going.I know BCOs who went independent with only $5200 before their Base plate.


There are many disadvantages on both ends.
For ex.... as a BCO, you see the load online and the rate is right infront of you and 90% of the time you cannot negotiate unless the agent calls you.You then get more details on the load that was never posted ,give them your company name(Ligon,ranger,Inway etc..),truck and trailer number and then they later finalize you in the system.

Another example:As an "independent", I called a couple of brokers that will keep me busy from GA.She wanted to know if I wanted to keep my truck busy and I said "yes or a frequent run".I expected what her response was.She goes on to let me know how busy they can keep the truck and send me everywhere at an average of 1.69.I told the fool I will send in my W9,insurance,and authority after I recieve her contract via fax.This ass kept calling to me make sure I got those docs.I definitely cannot run my business with those rates but I have so far found 4 brokers that will keep me busy and I need about 3 more to go.



Then as an Independent, sometimes you sit all days waiting for a confirmation sheet/rate agreement after you fax them your W9,authority and insurance.Some may say Landstar is better becasue you can keep moving quicker since you don't wait.This is true but I bet you, most of the times you cannot book 2 loads in advance on 2 800+mile runs.It is more like one 200mile run and maybe an 800+ mile run.
Not too many options, and this is what I am giving up, but I also have 30 days to come back if this does not work out.
I was just giving the disadvantages and advantages on both ends

[GMAN]

I don't sit all day waiting on a rate confirmation. If a broker is taking that long they are trying to find someone who will take the load for less than you. Unless there is a good reason for a delay you should have a rate confirmation in a few minutes. It should not take more than about 20 minutes in any case. I usually don't set up with a lot of brokers until there is a load that I want to haul for them. Most brokers don't want to expend the time to set you up in their system until you take a load. You could set up with a few of the larger brokers such as Landstar, CH Robinson, etc., but I would not waste a lot of time setting up with brokers that you don't know if you will haul for them or not. Since you are already with Landstar that would be a good place to start. You already know some agents to call for freight. Whether it is Landstar or some other broker there are loads they will not give you until you prove yourself. I have gotten loads before due to my safety rating. There are some brokers and/or shippers who will not do business with you until you have been in business for at least a year. There isn't much difference in leasing to Landstar and running your own authority. There are differences in that you have more options for freight as an independent. You also will need to do more paperwork as an independent. As an independent you don't have the safety net of a carrier. You are the carrier. Landstar charges you 2% off the top for insurance so you will not really be paying much, if any more running your own authority than you are as an independent.

[GMAN]

This ass kept calling to me make sure I got those docs.I definitely cannot run my business with those rates but I have so far found 4 brokers that will keep me busy and I need about 3 more to go.



Then as an Independent, sometimes you sit all days waiting for a confirmation sheet/rate agreement after you fax them your W9,authority and insurance.Some may say Landstar is better becasue you can keep moving quicker since you don't wait.This is true but I bet you, most of the times you cannot book 2 loads in advance on 2 800+mile runs.It is more like one 200mile run and maybe an 800+ mile run.
Not too many options, and this is what I am giving up, but I also have 30 days to come back if this does not work out.

I would not necessarily count on any one or handful of brokers who tell you they can guarantee that they can keep you busy. This business changes daily. You can sometimes book loads in advance, but most brokers don't want to book anything too far in advance. Some of them don't even get notice of loads until they receive an email or fax from the shipper. When they are notified they may only have a matter of hours to get a truck to the shipper. You can sit with Landstar as with any other carrier, especially when you are in a bad area or the economy is soft. And you are not going to have a good feel of how it is to run your authority in only 30 days. I would prepare for at least several months. If you should decide to go back with Landstar they will still approve you as long as you left on a good basis with them. If not, there are plenty of good carriers who are always looking for good owner operators. There are some where you can earn just as much or more without all the hassles and nickel and dime charges. I am not down on Landstar, but there are other options.

[Chiefwhatdahey]

I'd wait till march or april, february is generally pretty quiet for open freight and there's a lot of competition for what is available.


Good luck HB

[moe]

First of all most ins. companies won't let anyone with less than 2 years verified driving work for you, so forget your friend. I got authority in 96 and still have it. While still maintaining my ins. and authority I am leased to someone else because I was working to hard to find good loads. Right now broker freight is down. I worked with many good brokers thru the years but when it's a shippers market as it is presantly they can't help much. I went from 1 truck in 96 to 7 trucks in 99 (3 mine- 4 lease operators) I did well but life is much easier now. I do highly recomend you taking the plunge but not right now. keep saving, don't bother checking on rates as much as freight availabilty. The more loads out there the higher the rates. One more thing, the more work you can do on your own equipment the better chance you have of surviving. Also on the landstar issue. For a period of two years we had a steady run going thru landstar. The rate was very high and to my knoledge it was never offered to L.S O/O we did three or four a week and if we couldn't get to it they would change p/u or del. time so they wouldn't have to put it in the system. I got the impression than that they were't very faithful to thier own. Sorry for the long winded answer but now is not the time. I think if things turn around it will be like it was in the '90's when even slow people like myself thrived.

[solo379]

I'd wait till march or april,

2009, or 2010 possibly...

[Chiefwhatdahey]

Doing a search of available freight on L/S for flat/step in a 50 mi. radius of Chicago turned up 47 loads this morning, I've never seen less than 130 or so. I'd say it's pretty slow, up where I live (nw of Green Bay, Wi.) it's worse, I guess I'll have more time to get things done at the house.

[henboy1]

Doing a search of available freight on L/S for flat/step in a 50 mi. radius of Chicago turned up 47 loads this morning, I've never seen less than 130 or so. I'd say it's pretty slow, up where I live (nw of Green Bay, Wi.) it's worse, I guess I'll have more time to get things done at the house.

I also think it is a good advice to wait until april.
Chief, are these loads on the broker side or the BCO load board.I am currently at home and I am quite scared to go out there and get stuck with someone else' cheap freight.I am trying hard to book 2 loads ahead before leaving the house and be back in at least 10 days.

[BigDiesel]

I don't sit all day waiting on a rate confirmation. If a broker is taking that long they are trying to find someone who will take the load for less than you. Unless there is a good reason for a delay you should have a rate confirmation in a few minutes. It should not take more than about 20 minutes in any case. I usually don't set up with a lot of brokers until there is a load that I want to haul for them. Most brokers don't want to expend the time to set you up in their system until you take a load. You could set up with a few of the larger brokers such as Landstar, CH Robinson, etc., but I would not waste a lot of time setting up with brokers that you don't know if you will haul for them or not. Since you are already with Landstar that would be a good place to start. You already know some agents to call for freight. Whether it is Landstar or some other broker there are loads they will not give you until you prove yourself. I have gotten loads before due to my safety rating. There are some brokers and/or shippers who will not do business with you until you have been in business for at least a year. There isn't much difference in leasing to Landstar and running your own authority. There are differences in that you have more options for freight as an independent. You also will need to do more paperwork as an independent. As an independent you don't have the safety net of a carrier. You are the carrier. Landstar charges you 2% off the top for insurance so you will not really be paying much, if any more running your own authority than you are as an independent.

henboy,

The above post is well said. I cannot comment on the flatbed/stepdeck side of the business as I do not have any experience in that world. But in regards to starting out, sign up with the big boys, CHR, TQL , Landstar etc... and yes they do have cheap rates, but you can always negotiate with them.... and you don't need to worry when the check will arrive or if it will be good....

[henboy1]

2009, or 2010 possibly...

Step/Single Drop Deck/flat Loads posted
starting within 100 miles of ATLANTA
1.www.landstaronline.com
25 loads posted within the last 3 hrs

2.www.getloaded.com
70 loads posted within the last 4hrs
3.www.eflatbed.com
1 load posted within the last 4 hrs

4.CH ROBINSON
2 loads posted within the last 4 hrs

5.www.internettruckstop.com
91 loads posted within the last 4 hrs.
6.memebersedge
31 loads in the past 4hrs

[Chiefwhatdahey]

I also think it is a good advice to wait until april.
Chief, are these loads on the broker side or the BCO load board.I am currently at home and I am quite scared to go out there and get stock with some else' cheap freight.I am trying hard to book 2 loads ahead before leaving the house and be back in at least 10 days.

BCO board HB. I'm not in too big a hurry to go out there and sit given what is showing up in the Chicago area either. Like I said earlier, I have plenty to do at the house to keep me busy for a while and I have cash squirreled away so I'm not too worried for now.

When you get moving with your gig and if you aren't afraid to tarp call 2 Brothers Trans in Ca. ask for Frank, you could also call Aloha Freightways in Addison, Il. ask for Jim. Both these co's move a lot of ltl tool machinery and the rates can be pretty good.

If you're feeling really ambitious go online and search for used tool machine dealers either on Google or Thomas Register, many of the smaller dealers have a hard time getting carriers that are worth a darn, the ones I dealt with when I was an indie could be demanding but it was worth it.

[rank]

"I called a couple of brokers that will keep me busy from GA."

Sounds like RSL or TD. Or maybe Bennett.