Should i jump ship as an “indie” or buy a 2nd truck?long!

[henboy1]

I can't watch even one load board and drive a truck. It's almost a full time job for me to dispatch and invoice for two trucks (only 400 - 500 mile length of haul, load one day & empty the next, so this keeps me hopping). When I hit the road in the third truck, it doesn't take long before all three trucks are empty.

I have no idea how you will be able to drive and keep yourself loaded, much less two trucks. It is impossible IMO. You will need to rely on a few brokers to keep loaded and they will ratchet the rates down on you over time.

If you want to be home more (which I agree with) I suggest scraping the idea of a second truck and getting a local driving job instead. Maybe not as sexy, but you will make more money with less stress and it might save your marriage not to mention your life savings.

This can go bad on you in a hurry.

Again, this just my opinion.

I will not argue about the hardships involved in dsipatching and driving at the same time.I read the boards on GL and ITS a lot.Many dispatchers advertise their services.For ex... You guys must know this guys named Greg Caplain (I may be wrong on the name) advertises his dispatching service which also includes invoicing.$400 a month for just dispatching and $600/month for dispatching and invoicing where they are not at all liable for any claims /disputes etc..They just find you the rate and call you, and they claim their rates are high.I had the guy send me the contract or the service agreement and to me, that was BS for what they do.The point is, I cannot do both at the same time but rather to hand off the stepdeck to a dispatch service while I do containers like I had done 3 years prior.I am not going to stop at just one dispatch service but I am always reading.

Gman, the above was just an assistance is helping one determine what authority is required and I just wanted to familiarize myself with the process as I hope I am answering the right questions.
If not driving , I think I can dispacth 2 trucks and do their IFTAs while I sit home with the family.You're right I can't do both and drive.

[mike3fan]

I will not argue about the hardships involved in dsipatching and driving at the same time.I read the boards on GL and ITS a lot.Many dispatchers advertise their services.For ex... You guys must know this guys named Greg Caplain (I may be wrong on the name) advertises his dispatching service which also includes invoicing.$400 a month for just dispatching and $600/month for dispatching and invoicing where they are not at all liable for any claims /disputes etc..They just find you the rate and call you, and they claim their rates are high.I had the guy send me the contract or the service agreement and to me, that was BS for what they do.The point is, I cannot do both at the same time but rather to hand off the stepdeck to a dispatch service while I do containers like I had done 3 years prior.I am not going to stop at just one dispatch service but I am always reading.

Gman, the above was just an assistance is helping one determine what authority is required and I just wanted to familiarize myself with the process as I hope I am answering the right questions.
If not driving , I think I can dispacth 2 trucks and do their IFTAs while I sit home with the family.You're right I can't do both and drive.

What would you figure the NET income of the 2 trucks with drivers to be?

My guess would be 20-30k total. And I'm not even sure that includes puttting anything away for equipment replacement.

Would it be worth all the hassle with 2 truck,2drivers for 20-30k a year,not for me but maybe you can make it work.

[rank]

yeah, I agree on the 20-30K net income. It may be a bit higher, but then again in these times maybe not. You need 4-5 trucks, then where do you get the drivers? Ugh.

I don't know what area you live in but if you're in a good freight area (are there any?), I used to think a fella could do ok as a regional step deck carrier if there was a wife dispatching from home. As a regional guy, you might get home 3 nights a week.

I have found that you need to be watching the DAT board ALOT or you miss some good paying freight so that rules out dispatching yourself (at least for me it does). You can't simply post your truck,especially now when brokers aren't even posting loads.

Besides all that talking on the phone, calculating mileages, applying for permits etc while you're driving will catch up to you one day in the form of an accident.

Dispatchers dispatch and drivers drive, IMO.

[GMAN]

I will not argue about the hardships involved in dsipatching and driving at the same time.I read the boards on GL and ITS a lot.Many dispatchers advertise their services.For ex... You guys must know this guys named Greg Caplain (I may be wrong on the name) advertises his dispatching service which also includes invoicing.$400 a month for just dispatching and $600/month for dispatching and invoicing where they are not at all liable for any claims /disputes etc..They just find you the rate and call you, and they claim their rates are high.I had the guy send me the contract or the service agreement and to me, that was BS for what they do.The point is, I cannot do both at the same time but rather to hand off the stepdeck to a dispatch service while I do containers like I had done 3 years prior.I am not going to stop at just one dispatch service but I am always reading.

Gman, the above was just an assistance is helping one determine what authority is required and I just wanted to familiarize myself with the process as I hope I am answering the right questions.
If not driving , I think I can dispacth 2 trucks and do their IFTAs while I sit home with the family.You're right I can't do both and drive.

I do some dispatching myself in addition to my own trucks. I can tell you one thing for certain, if you want to get decent paying loads you will spend a lot of time on the telephone and computer. It is difficult to take time away from the office when you dispatch trucks. It takes time to find the better paying loads. Sometimes you get lucky and everything goes just right and you find a great load right out of the gate. Most of the time you spend a lot of your day on the computer and telephone. Business is off now, but you can usually find something to throw on a truck without too much effort if you don't care about the rate. If you want to get your authority I suggest you run the truck yourself for a while yourself to learn what you are doing before buying another truck. I used to have a driver who worked for me. He got one truck and a month or two later got another. He was under capitalized and had some mechanical failures on his trucks. I don't think he lasted 6 months. Had he only kept the one truck and driven it himself he might have been able to make it.

You can learn a lot by running for a carrier such as Landstar, but it is a different ball game once you get your own authority and have no one to back you up other than yourself.

[rank]

I do some dispatching myself in addition to my own trucks. I can tell you one thing for certain, if you want to get decent paying loads you will spend a lot of time on the telephone and computer.

I wonder how many people know how true this is. I often spend 9-10 hours in a day and get nothing worth putting on the trailer. Lots of cheap stuff though.

[henboy1]

What would you figure the NET income of the 2 trucks with drivers to be?

My guess would be 20-30k total. And I'm not even sure that includes puttting anything away for equipment replacement.

Would it be worth all the hassle with 2 truck,2drivers for 20-30k a year,not for me but maybe you can make it work.

Mike, let me give you a little history about some of my mishaps and how I came out of it with the savings in repairs.I do not replace equipment but rather repair them if I need to.

Mishap 1:I was hauling army vehicles from Chambursburg, PA (letter kenny army base) to MS when I realised my truck would vibrate anytime I hit the clutch pedal.It wasn't that severe until I got to my destination.With this problem, I DH to new orleans for an OD load going back to SC from the new orleans pier/harbor.With this 2kibs OD, I was crawling on the hwy and I made it Georgia to have this problem fixed before continuing to sc.
I have a DET. specialist right on Moreland avenue and almost next to where the former TA used to be.He changed out my clutch in 2 days for $1100.At this time I had called the LS agent, the broker and even the shipper about the mishap and they understood.Most clucth jobs are 2000 or more.


Mishap 2. My brakes caugfht on fire in Flagstaff, AZ because of excessive use of the brakes down the grade(6000 elevation and about 8 % grade on I-17).I immediately pulled out the extinguisher and put out the fire.With 40kibs of copper from hayden , AZ to Amarrillo I really had to take it easy as I knew the truck would make it.I came home (GA) and had this same guy installed a three stage jakes on the truck(JACOBS) and at the same time run an Overhead) for $1200.Prices like these are unbelievable.


Mishap 3. A month ago, coming from CA, I hauled a 40kibs tank from Houston, TX to MS.I had my own dunnages which I had them use.The tank itself looked like a damn missile with stands.Two forklifts facing each other had to lift this heavy tank up and I backed up underneath it.Instead of turning the tank upward so that the stand/notches would face the air, those stands were rather facing the floor(aluminum side).Before seating the tank on the floor, they used my dunnage by stacking each dunnage on top of the other.About 3 miles from the shipper, and when I was about to make a turn onto the entrance ramp to the hwy, I heard a loud thump.I thought I had dropped the tank.I immediately got down and stopped traffic.The notchy/stand part on the bottom of the tank had dropped and went straight through my trailer causing about 12 inch holes on both ends of the trailer.This was all because my own dunnage I had used was not levelled and it caused the stack to fall on both ends.The straps then came loose because the tank had sank.At this time, I was working at a fast pace before the cops came and gave me a ticket for impeding traffic or whatever they would do.I resecured the load and then went to HOME DEPOT and bought some bevelled dunnage and nails to secure the load from moving side to side.
I then came home with this damaged floor.Part was my fault, because the dunnage I had wasn't levelled,and I allowed these inexperience loaders to have this tank seated with it's legs facing the deck.
At home, my main welder who comes to me did seem busy and so I took the trailer to South Eastern Trailer services right on moreland avenue and Cedars rd.They only charge 45/hr for LS BCOs because most of their work comes from LS trailers.$645 later, the missing floor and the dammaged aluminum part was all fixed and I picked up my trailer.


The main point to this long story is that most O/O may be paying high dollars to get their equipment serviced but in my case, I am paying about half of what most shops will charge.This DET. guy charges 6500 for a basic top and bottom without injectors,turbo and water pump.That price is unlikely anywhere else and he has been doing this work for 12yrs.This same guy towed my truck when "luckily" my bull gear went out on I-20(close to home).The bill for towing my truck 40 miles and changing the compressor gear,bull gear and idler gear was 2100.
To answer part of your question Mike, maintenance or replacement is an issue but as long as I can crawl back to GA I can have the work done and pay close to nothing.They can only get me out there in the trenches when I am immobile.

[henboy1]

I wonder how many people know how true this is. I often spend 9-10 hours in a day and get nothing worth putting on the trailer. Lots of cheap stuff though.

Rank, your statement is soo common with the LS board.Imagine being with LS and you booked a load going to Denver.Would you rather sit 3 days in trying to find something out of there with just 1 loadboard or would you at least want to have many options as in may be 4 main load boards that you can call brokers on?The point is, with LS I cannot book 2 loads in advance before leaving the house but when I look at ITS, GL,members edge ,Eflatbed and few others I could most likely book 2 loads in advance and in most places, I will be able to get out and not with LS' 1 load board.


Let's now talk figures as MIKE asked earlier.


My plan:
This driver is a personal friend of mine who I have known for the past 6 yrs and we knew each other before we even got our CDL.We even play tennis together and I have adviced him on his marriage when him and his wife had problems.The friendship is the kind that, even if I took the truck back from him, we would still play tennis on the courts.
He pretty much looks up to me since he knows I am "making it" compared to many he has known.he seeks advice from me, whether it is personal or trucking and no I don't know everything in trucking.
The only draw back is that his CDL is not 2yrs old until JULY of this year as NORTHLAND would want 2yrs experience.I am also willing to wait but I also called the insurance agent to ask him that hyperthetical question with this driver.He is currently driving for Hornady after being with 4 companys within 14months.That is not good as I told him many times before signing with all these carriers.Hornady pays their "tarp pay" every quarter and at 38cpm he is disgusted.He is definitely not happy with this tarp pay and he has been forced to come home for 3 weeks becasue of the slow holidays.Gman I will not immediately put someone in the truck after I get my authority.I may have to do this on my own for 4 months and then dispatch him in JULY, hoping that the insurance I will pay on him will be reasonable.


Mike, to now answer your question on what I will be looking to NET.

I am not soo good with figures but I will try.
I will be expecting this first truck and step to run 1600-2200miles/week.I have told the driver that with every tarp load, he gets the full tarp pay at $100/load.He will be on % and that will be 25% because in JULY he will only have 2yrs experience.If the truck can average 1.70/mile(that means making many calls as you stated)I should be able to survive.I have contacted these brokers who usually haul out of GA.

GTO 2000
770 965 6823
loads frequently to Dallas, tx

D&H Logistics 888-324-9446
Bread company out of GA
Or Jan 770 358 1790

JRC Transportation 888-781-5003

Sargent Trucking
Corporate Office
MARS HILL, ME
Phone: 1 800 284 0326
Fax: (207) 429-9739

Aloha Freightways

1-800-636-0436

Besides this lists I have about 4 landstar agents who haul machinery or constructopn equipment out of GA.



Paying someone % means I really have to work hard in getting him freight without sitting for too long.
1.70cpmX1600miles-2200miles=$2720-$3740/week GROSS
On 1600mile-2200mile run a week I know my truck will burn between $480-$600/week in fuel.
$480-$600 in fuel minus $2720-$3740Gross will NET $3140(high side).
Let me take the LOw side on the GROSS, which is $2720 low side gross-$480low side fuel cost=$2240 low side NET/week.


Drivers pay is 25%:
For example 25% X$2240=$560.Now this figure is at only 1600 mile run a week
At 2200 mile run a week .........25% X $3140=$785

As I have told him, with less than 2 yrs experience his pay will range between $560-$785.
There are many things I have left out as I promised him a full tarp pay and these figures are only imaginary since I have left out the cost on maintenance,IFTA,base plate,tolls,2290 and about 5 other cost to operate in figuring out my TRUE NET.There may be some other mistakes I have made in the math but I am willing to listen to you experts.I havn't even factored in DH miles or % to accurately get those figures.
I have made many calls on ITS, GL and membersedge and I figure if I can get more or at least 1.70/mile, my business can survive.
Finding good paying freight will take a while and I wouldn't expect to be like GMAN immediately.I am still gathering up more broker names that CONSTANTLY haul from THEIR SHIPPERS.


APU TO SAVE IDLING COST.
I wouldn't call my system an APU but it acts just like it.

I did install a diesel generator (OVH and aircooled) which runs at 6KW,10HP and has key start and remote start.
I have a microwave,portable AC unit(the vent hose sticks down the floor board as I have made a hole for this)portable space heater and rice cooker which is run by this generator.With the remote pad, the driver can start the generator from the sleeper without having to get out to use the key swtich or recoil start.Besides this, the portable fridge,laptop,GPS is run by the 3000watt inverter.The driver even has SIRIUS radio paid for a whole yr and not to mention my laptop with WIFI.Behind the headache rack and on top of the generator there is a battery booster/charger connected to the generator incase he watches too much DVD or forgets and leaves the fridge running for 24hrs and draws the juice from all 4 batteries, he can wake up the truck with the charger and the generator.
What could possibly make this guy not want to leave HORNADY and come my way?

[Chiefwhatdahey]

HB, would you be willing to pm your Det. techs number?

[Heavy Duty]

"What could possibly make this guy not want to leave HORNADY and come my way?"

What about health insurance and paid vacation?

"The point is, with LS I cannot book 2 loads in advance before leaving the house but when I look at ITS, GL,members edge ,Eflatbed and few others I could most likely book 2 loads in advance and in most places, I will be able to get out and not with LS' 1 load board."

When will you realize that the good freight is not setting on load boards to book days in advance. The good stuff comes and goes in just a few minutes. Most LS flat freight is booked on the same day it is loaded, you need to be flexible.

Why not spend you money on moving into heavy haul. Plenty of good stuff out of the Georgia ports. Watch the DD and Lowboy boards for a while.

Do you have any idea how much our top HH trucks earn? Anyone want to guess?




'

[mike3fan]

Like I said I wish you the best of luck,but a driver will never do as many things to save money as an owner will. I don't care how good of friends you are. I think you are in for a bit of sticker shock also when you find out what your insurance wil be with a newer driver(2yrs) that has had an average of 2 jobs every year he has been in this buisness.

I have talked to a bunch of guys lately that have sat for 5 or more days at a time waiting out "good" paying freight,what happens to your driver if he has 2 weeks in a month where he makes $300 a week because there is no freight?

I don't blame you for wanting to be home with your wife and the new arrivals,but IMO you may be a bit unrealistic in your expectations. Keep us posted though.

[rank]

Watch the DD and Lowboy boards for a while.

Got some links to these boards? I didn't realize there was load boards just for this.

Do you have any idea how much our top HH trucks earn? Anyone want to guess?

Kinda depends doesn't it? On whether you're moving wind turbines or a 9" wide rock truck. I'll guess $10/loaded mile after fuel, driver and permits for the quasi big stuff.

[heavyhaulerss]

The reflector tape? No..never had anyone say a word about missing reflector tape...but then...I don't believe reflective tape is required on the headache rack of a truck..not sure...and not looking it up.




I got written up for this. d.o.t did a inspection on the shoulder in a contruction zone. no fine , no, points on my license, but he did write it on level 2 inspection form. said my refective tape was faded or worn in some area's & there was almost none left on trailer headboard. it is in the safety handbook. I told him since he had the authority to use discretion he could of warned me about the violation. that is all he found after 45 min, of going over every nook & cranny. just one of those lessons that ya learn the hard way. now I know.

[henboy1]

"What could possibly make this guy not want to leave HORNADY and come my way?"

What about health insurance and paid vacation?

"The point is, with LS I cannot book 2 loads in advance before leaving the house but when I look at ITS, GL,members edge ,Eflatbed and few others I could most likely book 2 loads in advance and in most places, I will be able to get out and not with LS' 1 load board."

When will you realize that the good freight is not setting on load boards to book days in advance. The good stuff comes and goes in just a few minutes. Most LS flat freight is booked on the same day it is loaded, you need to be flexible.

Why not spend you money on moving into heavy haul. Plenty of good stuff out of the Georgia ports. Watch the DD and Lowboy boards for a while.

Do you have any idea how much our top HH trucks earn? Anyone want to guess?




'

Heavy Duty, I believe you on the heavy haul and you guys and A&E are the top money makers for LS.Give me a search criteria to look you guys uip on the loadboard.Is it SD3 etc??I will take almost every advice into consideration.I know Landstar requires about a week of training and that is besides looking at your "record" with them.
MIKE, on every step I take, I will keep you guys posted.
Chief. send me a pm and I will send you the mechanics #.
In additoion to this mechanic, I also use Richard Kearns which is about 15miles from the house.I use them in almost every used part I buy but they are known mostly for rear ends.
I had my power divider,Yoke,Pinion seal and drive shaft replaced 2 months ago for 1800.They are a bit high but their turn around is only a day.

[rank]

As near as I can tell, the only valid reason for leaving LS is to get access to more freight closer to home. I'm not sure your rates will go up.

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but I think basing a business plan on $1.70/mile is risky. You'll likely have 10%-20% DH in there won't you...now you're down to $1.35.

I don't know about your lanes, but I can tell you that $2/mile for step deck freight from the NJ/Balt/Phillie into Ontario & Quebec area is about as good as I can do when I "need" freight. I can do better by sitting at home and cherry picking but if you have a driver to support, you will "need" freight all the time. Maybe put some numbers together based on $1.30 for all miles, no drivers, (3) 500 miles loads for a total of 1500 miles/week?

The guy makes a good point about OD loads. You can spend more time at home and they often pay enough to cover DH back home.

One comment about the tarp pay. IMO, the driver needs to have some incentive to take care of the tarps. You might consider deducting tarp repair from his tarp pay. It burns me when I pay the driver $75 to tarp AND I have to pay $300 to fix a brand new tarp because he didn't take the time to use blankets or edge protectors.

[henboy1]

"What could possibly make this guy not want to leave HORNADY and come my way?"

What about health insurance and paid vacation?

"The point is, with LS I cannot book 2 loads in advance before leaving the house but when I look at ITS, GL,members edge ,Eflatbed and few others I could most likely book 2 loads in advance and in most places, I will be able to get out and not with LS' 1 load board."

When will you realize that the good freight is not setting on load boards to book days in advance. The good stuff comes and goes in just a few minutes. Most LS flat freight is booked on the same day it is loaded, you need to be flexible.

Why not spend you money on moving into heavy haul. Plenty of good stuff out of the Georgia ports. Watch the DD and Lowboy boards for a while.

Do you have any idea how much our top HH trucks earn? Anyone want to guess?




'

Heavy Duty, I just got off the phone with your folks.They require 2 yrs verifiable experience in Heavy haul.
My current classification is at SD2 which means I can only go up to 10 WIDE and any amount of weight with the right permit.In looking at my records, she moved me up to SD3 which puts me at 12wide and any amount of weight.Now, to get into HH loads I will need to be doing what I have been doing for 1 more yr, and then get on the waiting list for an RGN or a low boy trailer.At SD3, I must haul at least 6 12' wide loads in the next year to qualify for HH.The waiting list is about a year long or I can go buy my own RGN or HH equipment.Since I have already taken the securement classes, I may not need to take it again in a years time.


Will the heavy haul rate justify spending maybe 40k for a a used HH trailer in these hard times?Now it is December and not march but I looked on the HH load board on the BCO section.The highest paying load is from MACON, GA TO LOUDON, TN AT 11.27/mile,13.1 ft in height and 13ft wide.The lowest paying load is $1.66.
I wouldn't rule out your suggestion but I will keep monitoring this board from now until FEB.

[rank]

Got some links to these boards? I didn't realize there was load boards just for this.

OK I get it now. You're a LS guy.

[thbogle]

You can't always rely on whats on the load boards. Some brokers and agents DONT post the good loads, some just look for trucks and if they can't cover it in short time they will post it or hand it off to another agent. If I have something really good I can usually get it done in just a few ph calls and then I dont have to worry about posting it.

Good luck on your adventure, your going to need it and big bank account. Henboy congrats on the twins one is expensive enough I couldnt imagine having two at once. Good luck on that as well.

[henboy1]

It has been 5 months since I updated my adventure.I got stuck in IA for almost 3 days and finally found a load of of KS(170 mile DH and that seems common with LS).I had seen 6 loads that was on their board for the past 3hrs, compared to 38 loads on ITS in the last 4hrs, then I started thinking to myself............."how can one live on such few loads to pick from"?I am like " ,it is getting worse with this company and everyone else will be the same".I have been waiting for the loads to pick up but they have been the same since my last update or even worse.



I called OOIDA for an insurance quote and they came back with $7416 (30k for collision on truck and trailer and everything else included).I also called Great american west insurance and recieved a quote for $7489.Progressive was outrageous at $8200 with an 800 mile limitation.As I have said many times my beacon score is 820,no charge offs, mvr
is spotless and I was then looking for an insurance broker who would look beyond my MVR.I am now blessed, Cooper Insurance in stockbridge, GA gave me a quote
for $4039/yr.
This will be $855 down and $345/month.You guys cannote shop for anything better than that.I told Roger to save the quote and I will come leave my down payment and start the process.
As you all know, many agencies charge at least $10000 processing fee to get your authority.The owner at Cooper Insurance charges only $550, which includes the authority(MC#) and the BOC filing.Then I will be off to my local IRP office to renew my base plate and 2290.No to forget my KYU,IFTA and maybe NM permits.Hopefully my problems will end soon in about a month when I have my name on my door.Sitting in dead ares for 3 days will also end.
LANDSTAR=$3600/YR IN DEDUCTIONS
INDEPENDENT=$4039/YR INSURANCE PLUS LOAD BOARD, EFAX, AND PERMITS.
It has been real but the wife is almost due and I cannot keep messing with this company when I have two kids on the way.




My brother wants to join in on the action when I get my authority.Are there any load boards besides ITS that strictly deal with LTL loads for reefer or straight truck?

Thanks!

[mike3fan]

Hopefully my problems will end soon in about a month when I have my name on my door.Sitting in dead ares for 3 days will also end.

How will it make a difference if you still plan on using the loadboards for freight?

[freebrd]

i agree with what ranks says! not a good time to start expanding!
thats list of brokers is fine! ive got one three times that long.
in dealing with brokers and you can do the math, what does nothing from nothing leave you? seriously
IF YOU DONT HAVE YOUR OWN SHIPPERS YOUR JUST BEATING YOUR HEAD UP AGAINST A WALL!
RATES ON LOAD BOARDS ARE HORRIBLE! HAVE YOU LOOKED LATELY.
ALSO BROKERS HAVE MANY WAYS TO BEAT YOU OUT OF WHAT YOU THOUGHT WERE GOOD RATES! SHORT MILES, ETC ETC.
ITS ALSO HARD TO FOLLOW THE FREIGHT IF YOU HAVENT BEEN IN THIS BUISS. LON ENOUGH.
TREUST ME THING ALWAYS SOUND EASIER THAN THEY ACTUALLY ARE! HMM GO FIGURE.
BEST OF LUCK TOO YOU!