Excess Idle Question

[Mr Bill]

GMAN (Or others)

I have a friend who is a company driver for a major reefer carrier. This company now charges their company drivers for fuel idle usage above 30% idling. Also this company does not and I hear has no intention of installing APU”S. I believe they call it Excess Idling Charge, don’t quote me there. Depending on where the drivers are routed and both delayed unloading & loading waits, idling times can vary, if one is in the SW for an extended time in summer months and the Temp. Is staying at the triple digits, the tractor / condo will not stay comfortable very long (Not a whole lot of insulation in these) when you shut the engine off to keep idle percentage down. Also when your in the SW and are down for your ten hour rest, a 34 hour reset it or waiting 24+ hours for the next load it does become very unbearable to rest or sleep in a cab that is at 90+ degrees with out idling to keep it decent. Trying to keep at 30% or less is really showing on these drivers. Loss of sleep & they are getting very fatigued. I would guess this is leading into a safety condition and not meeting the required DOT required rest time. Then on top of this are the Company phone calls & Computer dings while one is trying to sleep. This is presently a summer issue but soon it will be a Winter issue to keep warm. . OK off my bandwagon. Ready for good, bad & ugly responses.

Question:
With this company now deducting each week or two from the drivers pay for excess idling fuel use will this deduction be an item that can be used as a deduction at tax time for the drivers to get some recoup?

[tweety bird]

This is the opposite of drivers who (even before all this anti-idling stuff) tried to meet fuel usage quotas to get bonuses. I remember JB Hunt drivers back in the day sleeping in those mummy sleeping bags so they wouldn't have to idle the truck for heat in the winter. I don't recall this being an issue in the summer- of course, there's only so much you can do.

I agree that this practice (and anti idling legislation in general) often poses a safety hazard when drivers can't sleep.

Do you know what the charge is? Does the company allow Idleaire use (I'm not a fan of Idleaire, but I suppose it's better than nothing when you need a/c).

[Mr Bill]

What I have heard is the charge the drivers what the company pays by the gallon.

The do not pay for idleair. If driver wanto use it is on their dime.

Thanks for your reply.

Any comment on my question?

[Triple Digit Bob]

What I have heard is the charge the drivers what the company pays by the gallon.

The do not pay for idleair. If driver wanto use it is on their dime.

Thanks for your reply.

Any comment on my question?

Yez,WHAT idiot would want to keep driving for thiz company and keep putting up with itz nonsense. This past August there was a KLLM driver that waz complaining of heat stroke becauze he cannot idle for thiz much time. WHY keep driving for theze companiez and put life and health at risk if they are too cheap to put in APU or pay for IDleaire? There are companiez that have apu and pay the same or better. IF your only choice is to stay with company that have idle limitation with no APU than it iz time for another line of work,no?

[Kranky]

Yez,WHAT idiot would want to keep driving for thiz company and keep putting up with itz nonsense. This past August there was a KLLM driver that waz complaining of heat stroke becauze he cannot idle for thiz much time. WHY keep driving for theze companiez and put life and health at risk if they are too cheap to put in APU or pay for IDleaire? There are companiez that have apu and pay the same or better. IF your only choice is to stay with company that have idle limitation with no APU than it iz time for another line of work,no?

You haz gaz heat in your truck wit your fartz, right bobby boy??

[Triple Digit Bob]

You haz gaz heat in your truck wit your fartz, right bobby boy??

Yez but I pay no extra for idle. I get nize hotel. IF I want idle that iz my choice.

[GMAN]

Carriers are trying to save where they can. Unfortunately, some drivers will keep their trucks idling 24/7. If they have to absorb some of the costs of idling they will keep a closer eye on their idling. I don't think most companies want their drivers to be uncomfortable, they just want them to be more conscious of what they are doing. It costs about a gallon per hour to idle a truck. There are many times when it isn't necessary to idle. For some it doesn't seem to matter. They idle no matter what. I don't idle unless I need to do so to be comfortable. I don't expect my drivers to be uncomfortable but do expect them to use common sense. I think that is the way most carriers look at it. There is usually no reason to idle a truck more than 30% unless you are laid over. Even then you are probably not going to be in the truck 24 hours a day.

[Triple Digit Bob]

Even then you are probably not going to be in the truck 24 hours a day.



You be surprized. There are doofuzes that stay in truck for 3 days and idle the whole time. Company that haz limit on idle time muzt have apu or pay for hotel or idleaire for anything extra above 30%. We don't have thiz nonsense in hungary.

[heavyhaulerss]

We don't have thiz nonsense in hungary.
__________________
hungary huh ? I have relatives near lake ballaton. I learned to speak hungarian 20 years ago. it is not a hard language to learn.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Carriers are trying to save where they can. Unfortunately, some drivers will keep their trucks idling 24/7. If they have to absorb some of the costs of idling they will keep a closer eye on their idling. I don't think most companies want their drivers to be uncomfortable, they just want them to be more conscious of what they are doing. It costs about a gallon per hour to idle a truck. There are many times when it isn't necessary to idle. For some it doesn't seem to matter. They idle no matter what. I don't idle unless I need to do so to be comfortable. I don't expect my drivers to be uncomfortable but do expect them to use common sense. I think that is the way most carriers look at it. There is usually no reason to idle a truck more than 30% unless you are laid over. Even then you are probably not going to be in the truck 24 hours a day.

well when I was on the road and stuck sitting I felt anything above 75 in the daytime sun warrated idle time while in the truck as even with windows open it gets hot in the daytime sun...and since I'm not a fan of hanging out in truck stop lounges I spet nearly 24rs in cab and the company did not pay for idleaire or hotel I ran the truck ...I sat many times last summer for 2 days straight and 3-4 a week and many times lot temps were 105-115 daytime and around 90 early morning B4 sunrise ...I idled nonstop...while sitting... I got wrote up and asked to sign a charge back plan ...HE!! NO...shortly after logs audited my last 6 months logs by comparing QC TO paper hell half the time I had a dead QC that didn't even work ,but this was all they had on me and started nit picking ,so I resigned ...well I was going to anyway ,but the BS just made it easy with no guilt ...


now who are you kidding and what math do you use... running 2500mi at 50 mph only gives 24.75 hrs idle time a week b4 going over 30% ...that's only about 3.5 hrs a day...now at 3000 mi you get about 4hrs a day but only if you don't average better than 50 ,which I always did...That BS doesn't even cover an 8hr sleeper portion of a 10hr break ...I know basic math and 30% at 2500-3000 mi doesn't cover jack for atleast haf the year .THNX

[GMAN]

I have rarely idled over 30%. When temperatures are excessively cold or hot then idle times will go up, but if I can do it others can as well. I was usually comfortable. You don't need to idle or run the engine 24 hours a day. During summer months you could get a windshield reflector to keep the cab and sleeper cooler. I didn't have one when I was closely checking my idle time. Just turning the truck off while you run in to pay for your fuel or eat can save quite a bit in idle time and fuel. It might surprise you to see how much you can save with only a few minor behavior modifications without sacrificing comfort. In any case, the current economic times will require some adjustments from both management and drivers. Many companies are teetering on the edge right now. Unless they cut expenses they will not make it. Fuel is the most expensive part of running a truck these days. Paying a driver is the other major expense. A good driver will try to save his company as he can. He will also try to find ways in which to do his job more efficiently. When a driver saves his company money he is actually doing his part to protect his job. If a driver is only concerned about himself then he is driving the nails in the coffin for himself and his company. When times are difficult, it is a team effort to stay afloat and survive.

[belpre122]

The industry is barreling towards major change.

Efficient operations, rather than lifestyle trucking is becoming the only way to survive in today's economy. The carriers that are resisting the installation of APUs realize this, and are hard pressed to install them as the bean counters have made it clear to the management types that the days of trucking as we know it are coming to an end. The writing is clearly on the wall. If APUs were a cure all, they would already be on every truck.

Feeder networks, while certainly not a cure all, curtail much of the waste and expense incurred when operating a vehicle as living/waiting quarters.

It will certainly be interesting to see how things turn out.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

I have rarely idled over 30%. When temperatures are excessively cold or hot then idle times will go up, but if I can do it others can as well. I was usually comfortable. You don't need to idle or run the engine 24 hours a day. During summer months you could get a windshield reflector to keep the cab and sleeper cooler. I didn't have one when I was closely checking my idle time. Just turning the truck off while you run in to pay for your fuel or eat can save quite a bit in idle time and fuel. It might surprise you to see how much you can save with only a few minor behavior modifications without sacrificing comfort. In any case, the current economic times will require some adjustments from both management and drivers. Many companies are teetering on the edge right now. Unless they cut expenses they will not make it. Fuel is the most expensive part of running a truck these days. Paying a driver is the other major expense. A good driver will try to save his company as he can. He will also try to find ways in which to do his job more efficiently. When a driver saves his company money he is actually doing his part to protect his job. If a driver is only concerned about himself then he is driving the nails in the coffin for himself and his company. When times are difficult, it is a team effort to stay afloat and survive.

Well in 90-110 degree weather a cleverly placed piece of refletive foil really does nothing major
and at night in the 90 deree weather they do nothing...now turning off the truck when not in it accounted for very little idle time in my case ...Now I myself do not much care if a person like yourself is willing to "sacrafice" his basic level of comfort that's your choice ,but DO NOT look at it like it's every other drivers place to subject themselves to the same ...Infact I think a driver sitting in a 90 degree cab with a foil sunglass in his window a bit slow and low expectation in nature ,because while he/she sits like that the other part of the "TEAM" is sitting in an office temp controlled between 68-72 degrees ...And it's this other part of the "TEAM" that seems to dictate what is acceptably tolerble on my end from their ac'd / heated office...You want drivers to feel it's a team effort then remove the ac/heat from the offices ...after all it costs alot of cash to run those hvac units 24/7 365 infact at GTS they ran 24/7 with only 3 people in the buildig from 1700-0700 and this is typical of all large companiies I guess some members of the team are more important ...TEAM EFFORT MY ***** !

[GMAN]

I stay comfortable and expect my drivers to do the same. A solar reflector in the windshield can make a huge difference in the heat factor in a truck. If you are going to be in a truck stop or at least out of the truck you could leave the reflector in the truck and it will keep the temperature much cooler. If it is 90 degrees then it will probably still be necessary to idle to be comfortable, but there are many who will idle whether the temperature is 50 or 90. Since they don't have to worry about paying for the fuel they don't worry about it. Some of this is common sense. There have been times when I have idled more than 30%, such as when I have been in freezing temperatures or extreme heat for days on end, but for the month I usually manage to keep my idle at or below 30%.

As far as comparing office workers to truck drivers, it is a different profession. No one is suggesting that you never idle, just use common sense. It is cheaper to keep the temperature in a building at a somewhat constant level than it is to constantly be changing the temperature. I would say if present trends continue some will start to raise the thermostat in summer and lower it in summer to save money. It hasn't been that many years ago since trucks and most buildings didn't have air conditioning. :eek:

[GMAN]

The industry is barreling towards major change.

Efficient operations, rather than lifestyle trucking is becoming the only way to survive in today's economy. The carriers that are resisting the installation of APUs realize this, and are hard pressed to install them as the bean counters have made it clear to the management types that the days of trucking as we know it are coming to an end. The writing is clearly on the wall. If APUs were a cure all, they would already be on every truck.

The problem with APU's is that they may not be acceptable to all states. California pushed for APU's and then decided to not allow all of them without modifications. Many carriers are waiting to see what will happen before they start spending money on something that may not be permissible to use in all states.

This entire country is about to undergo a major change, not just trucking. You are correct about companies operating efficiently. Difficult economic times will require more attention to the bottom line. I would not be surprised if some started cutting pay rates. If you think it can't happen, then you should do some research about the last Great Depression. My grandparents worked for as little as $0.50/day. That is right, per day. :eek:

[Kranky]

I stay comfortable and expect my drivers to do the same. A solar reflector in the windshield can make a huge difference in the heat factor in a truck. If you are going to be in a truck stop or at least out of the truck you could leave the reflector in the truck and it will keep the temperature much cooler. If it is 90 degrees then it will probably still be necessary to idle to be comfortable, but there are many who will idle whether the temperature is 50 or 90. Since they don't have to worry about paying for the fuel they don't worry about it. Some of this is common sense. There have been times when I have idled more than 30%, such as when I have been in freezing temperatures or extreme heat for days on end, but for the month I usually manage to keep my idle at or below 30%.

As far as comparing office workers to truck drivers, it is a different profession. No one is suggesting that you never idle, just use common sense. It is cheaper to keep the temperature in a building at a somewhat constant level than it is to constantly be changing the temperature. I would say if present trends continue some will start to raise the thermostat in summer and lower it winter to save money. It hasn't been that many years ago since trucks and most buildings didn't have air conditioning. :eek:

Fixed it for you, Gman.

[GMAN]

Thanks, Kranky.