Drowning, can you make it on $1.50/ mile?

[lowrange]

Yeah, I finally went over my statements and it isn't good. I was expecting $5k or so to be coming any time now, but actually, I'm about even. I got a $98 check last week, first money I've seen in 3 weeks.

At today's fuel prices, with every load grossing over 78,000 lbs, would you expect anyone to run profitably at $1.50/practical mile loaded and empty?

Various people have told me how well they do in tankers, not just on this board- quite a few people.

1) In a general sense, would you expect anyone to do well with those weights and that rate? What are some guys staying in this business on 70-80 cpm after their fuel costs?

2) Calling all the tanker dudes, Mike, Cyanide, Paul, OTG..., if anyone has some really practical job switching advice c'mon and bring it? Are there still good jobs out there? Paul, how did Dana work out? You there? Cyanide, your place still hiring.

I've got to do mucho miles today so I can't check back much. Your replies appreciated, TIA

[GMAN]

I think you are going to find it difficult to make it at $1.50/mile given the high cost of fuel right now. I may have posted this previously, but I met an owner operator who was leased to JB Hunt. He told me that he was doing well with the fsc making about $1.50/mile with everything included. I think they get some good discounts on fuel, and fuel was a little cheaper when I talked with him than it is now. It is difficult to make a decent profit, even leased to someone, for much less than $2/mile. But that is also subjective. It depends on your operating costs. I think the rates you are getting are affecting your profits much more than a decline in fuel mileage. You can afford to haul the heavy loads as long as you are getting a decent rate. I would think pulling a tanker would pay more than $1.50/mile, especially if you include the fsc.

[GMAN]

Yeah, I finally went over my statements and it isn't good. I was expecting $5k or so to be coming any time now, but actually, I'm about even. I got a $98 check last week, first money I've seen in 3 weeks.

I don't understand why you only had $98 coming in last week when you were expecting $5,000? Perhaps you need to spend some time looking at your figures. Are you getting a lot of advances? If so, those can eat up a lot of money. I know when I have given drivers advances, some have thought they weren't making much money, when in fact, they are getting so much in advances that they are eating up a lot of their paycheck.

[lowrange]

I got off on the wrong foot to follow my statements. The statements get mailed to the house or they are accessible through our blackberry, neither of which I had access to for a couple of months. And then, once I was able to pick up the statements, I carried them around for awhile until yesterday, when I looked at them closely. I know that's not how it's supposed to be done, but I also thought as long as they were paying what they are supposed to, the money would be there.

Well, they've paid just like they are supposed to, and yet I'm probably doing well to bring home $1000/week out of which has to come all the truck related expenses except fuel, insurance, and other minor things the company deducts (I probably take $200/wk in advances). No one needs to say anything, I'm going broke.

I've told the boss not to dispatch me once I deliver, I've got to look at the numbers more closely. Some guys seem to be doing really well with the tankers, it looks like the best I can do in the current situation is to eek out a living, even if I don't go broke, like I said.

$1.50/ mile for all practical miles sounded pretty decent at one point, maybe I was basing that on fuel prices a year ago. I wonder if I have a problem with my costs, or if, hauling heavy as I am, there really is no way to make a living like this.

[GMAN]

Have you ever sat down and looked at your actual operating costs, lowrange? At this point, you have some historical data to compare. The only way to really see how well you are doing is to look at the numbers. It could be that some changes could be made and you could start making more money. I would look at both costs and your earnings statement. It might also help you to write all the numbers down about each load. You could write the pickup and delivery information along with all miles based upon your odometer. You may be doing that now, but I thought that I would mention it anyway. Since you haven't looked at your statements for a while, you may not be staying on top of your business as you should. If you could change the way you handle the details, you may see a big difference. If some are doing well pulling for the same carrier, I would want to see what I was doing and compare that with what these people were doing. If you can start keeping a close idea on your business you can make changes to increase profitability. You could keep everything in an inexpensive composition book. Sometimes it helps to see everything in black and white. No one needs to see it but you.

[lowrange]

Have you ever sat down and looked at your actual operating costs, lowrange? At this point, you have some historical data to compare. The only way to really see how well you are doing is to look at the numbers. It could be that some changes could be made and you could start making more money. I would look at both costs and your earnings statement. It might also help you to write all the numbers down about each load. You could write the pickup and delivery information along with all miles based upon your odometer. You may be doing that now, but I thought that I would mention it anyway. Since you haven't looked at your statements for a while, you may not be staying on top of your business as you should. If you could change the way you handle the details, you may see a big difference. If some are doing well pulling for the same carrier, I would want to see what I was doing and compare that with what these people were doing. If you can start keeping a close idea on your business you can make changes to increase profitability. You could keep everything in an inexpensive composition book. Sometimes it helps to see everything in black and white. No one needs to see it but you.

I conceded that already, Gman. I think the bottom line is, I've got to stop letting them hold all these equipment modification costs over my head. I need to see an attorney and find out just what they can do to me if I quit and can't pay for the equipment right away. If I'm going to do this, if I'm going to pull tankers, I think I need to pull for somebody else. Step one, make sure they can't destroy me over the payback of these equipment modifications. Step two, find a job paying some of that do re mi numerous tank haulers have boasted about. This was an experiment that just didn't work out.

Maybe a guy can make it at $1.50, practical, loaded and empty, I don't know. But, it's still eeking out a living compared to what some guys are doing. I'm not living in my truck and incurring all these risks to eek out a living. As it is, now I'll have to borrow to pay my 2007 taxes. I was planning to save enough for quarterly taxes, a big IRA deposit, 2007 taxes and to pay down some other debt. Three months in this system and I don't have much to show for it.

[mike3fan]

I will post more later I am at the Nascar races in Virginia right now,but I also didn't recieve a check until the 4th week,because of the way they deduct the fuel,from the 4th check on it all evens out and the money should be constant.

[Maniac]

I've got to stop letting them hold all these equipment modification costs over my head. I need to see an attorney and find out just what they can do to me

Don't waste your money on an attorney, QC used one when they made YOUR contract that YOU signed, they WILL get their money from you, even if they have to take a judgment against you.

Apparently you didn't read the contract that YOU signed good enough.

That being said, what took you so long to look at your statements?

Don't tell me they were at the house and you weren't, you can get them faxed or emailed to you just about anywhere in the world.

Mikes numbers are posted, his reflect average wages here at Dana, there are guys much HIGHER ($$) than him, you are with the wrong company, its just that simple, when you call the Dana recriuter ask him how many QC calls he gets a day, and how many he already hired.

Mileage pay and forced dispatch should have been the clue.

Otherwise everything GMAN said is spot on.

hauling heavy as I am, there really is no way to make a living like this.

What does the weight have to do with anything? I have been hauling tanks for 20 years at least, all you've done is mention weight, and how heavy the loads are.

Most everyone on this board pulls heavy loads at one time or another, what is the big deal.

By the way I've paid off 5 trucks and a house pulling tanks, I'm NOT rich beyond my wildest dreams, and YES the money should be better, but it IS better than other freight, heavy or light, and I've pulled them all.

I make the most money on the short hauls, which apparently you won't get with a forced dispatch.

Bayonne NJ to Springfield Mass,
Gross $750.00 $450.00 to me
$270.00.00 FSC
$70.00 tolls...........170 miles one way
Live load, drop and hook on rec end

[Orangetxguy]

I was just thinking you should be close to paying off QC on the outfitting charges. They like to take their money back quick, Cam.

[lowrange]

EUREKA!!! I THINK I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!

ALL IN, THIS YEAR'S $1.50/MI = LAST YEAR'S $1.25/MI! A year ago, there is no way on God's green earth I'd have gone 78,000 for a buck and a quarter, and yet, I do it all the time right now! Last year, I'd haul computers out of Chicago for $1.60/mile. Obviously, I couldn't do that all the time. But, if you mix in some not too heavy $1.25 backhauls, again, this was last year, it blows my current rate out of the water! I do get the deadhead pay, but I also lose a lot of time going to tank washes. I think the bottom line is, I'm working for dirt! 8)

Maniac, you could really be helpful, but you have such a ****ty attitude I'd rather not hear it. Listen, I don't care to have you coming on here telling me off, ok? If you can't talk to another poster as an equal, a guy trying to make a living, if you have to act all high and mighty because you've been through and figured out what someone else hasn't, then just keep it to yourself. It's too bad, though, others share their knowledge and advice without acting like that. With a a different tone, I'd want to hear your opinon.

Mikey, talk to me! The purpose of the attorney would be to find out if I can jump ship and make payments on the equipment- that, or just give it back. If Suttles is filling up with former QC drivers, I wonder how interested they are in still hiring.

[lowrange]

I was just thinking you should be close to paying off QC on the outfitting charges. They like to take their money back quick, Cam.

No, OTG. They're taking the plates out at, like, $100 a week but only $50/week for the equipment. Part of the deal there might be to keep guys thinking they are trapped, I don't know. Maybe they just know guys can't afford to pay it back any quicker. Either way, I wouldn't have this job had I not been lied to. I was lied to about the cost of the equipment, I was lied to about having a choice of loads, and the real biggie, I was lied to and told I could change to % out of a terminal if I wanted to. But, they are letting guys leave before they go back to a terminal.

At nice rates, I could pay that money off rather quickly. With Landstar, I'd rake $2000 a week and more from my fuel account just blast away at my debts. At the current rate, there isn't going to be that kind of money. I'll be a slave to this system for 3 years if I try to pay it off their way.

[Rev.Vassago]

EUREKA!!! I THINK I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!

ALL IN, THIS YEAR'S $1.50/MI = LAST YEAR'S $1.25/MI! A year ago, there is no way on God's green earth I'd have gone 78,000 for a buck and a quarter, and yet, I do it all the time right now! Last year, I'd haul computers out of Chicago for $1.60/mile. Obviously, I couldn't do that all the time. But, if you mix in some not too heavy $1.25 backhauls, again, this was last year, it blows my current rate out of the water! I do get the deadhead pay, but I also lose a lot of time going to tank washes. I think the bottom line is, I'm working for dirt! 8)

I think it would really be in your best interest to start using a spreadsheet program to keep track of your loads and miles, so you can see where you are at any given point in the month. If you don't have Excel, you can download a clone of it called Open Office here. If you need some help setting up a spreadsheet, I'd be happy to give you a hand. But believe me, it is definitely worth it.

Just a suggestion. :wink:

[Jumbo]

Where is Maniac's ****ty attitude? I am just a stupid company driver and I make sure I look at my statements every week, We can access them online. Do owner operators keep a rolling (month to month) tally of their revenue vs. costs to know here they are and where they should be? If I was expecting $5000.00 and only got $98 it would only take me a week to find out. Last week I figured my company should deposit $1000.00 in to my account on Friday. The night before I accessed my payroll and saw they only put in $500.00. A couple of clicks later I saw that with the short week all my trips hadn't been put on this pay period. Now this week I will make sure they are. You do have to know what you have coming.

[lowrange]

I think it would really be in your best interest to start using a spreadsheet program to keep track of your loads and miles, so you can see where you are at any given point in the month. If you don't have Excel, you can download a clone of it called Open Office here. If you need some help setting up a spreadsheet, I'd be happy to give you a hand. But believe me, it is definitely worth it.

Just a suggestion. :wink:

I know it, Rev. Not too long ago I posted about that. Mike gave me a link to a website, Big Diesel said to go with Quicken Pro, I believe it was. Thanks for the advice and the offer, I do need to get to it.

For everyone else, I'm not hiding my shortcomings. I sat in a motel for three days over the Memorial day weekend and instead of going over my statements, I sat there webstreaming videos on things like 9/11; Bohemian Grove; 'the hidden government...' I know, I know you're not supposed to do it that way, but I did. I'm also 20 lbs overweight, if you want to know the truth.

[Rev.Vassago]

Do owner operators keep a rolling (month to month) tally of their revenue vs. costs to know here they are and where they should be?

I know I do. Every cent of revenue is entered in before I haul the load, and then when I get my statement, it is cross referenced with the spreadsheet for accuracy. Just like a checkbook.

[Walking Eagle]

Not knocking you lowranger but I just can't believe a "businessman" would go three month without looking at a settlement. If mine isn't on line by noon Friday I am on the phone to find out why not. I use a spreadsheet like Rev and as soon as I climb in the truck I enter what I spent, meal, laundry, 2 bottles of Mountain Dew, under the appropriate colume then a the end of that trip I can do the fantastic Excel magic with different formulars and find out exacly what I made, spent etc. etc.
Also you can "adjust " things for tax needs.

[solo379]

Where is Maniac's ****ty attitude?

I didn't get it either....?

[lowrange]

Not knocking you lowranger but I just can't believe a "businessman" would go three month without looking at a settlement. If mine isn't on line by noon Friday I am on the phone to find out why not. I use a spreadsheet like Rev and as soon as I climb in the truck I enter what I spent, meal, laundry, 2 bottles of Mountain Dew, under the appropriate colume then a the end of that trip I can do the fantastic Excel magic with different formulars and find out exacly what I made, spent etc. etc.
Also you can "adjust " things for tax needs.

Well, we've all got our issues, don't we? Me, I'm a slacker. You, you're anal...

jk Wow! You really are organized. I was really torn this summer, I didn't want to start driving again. There was something special going on with the church down in Florida and I wanted to be a part of it. I absolutely do need to get myself better organized.

I remember this guy painting the lettering on his tires to match his truck. Some guys are into chrome...I'm in it for the money, pure and simple. If they didn't treat company drivers like slaves, I'd be better off doing that, I suppose. The gig I had with Landstar, it was almost perfect. I used my truck to go where I wanted to visit whomever I wanted, and I got paid in the process. My parting with Landstar was mutual, though, I got a bad ticket, and that's another story.

[lowrange]

If I need to apologize to Maniac, then "I'm sorry". That said, some of you guys can't seem to pick up when someone is being talked down upon like an idiot. I DID read the contract, I was also lied to. I'll add I rolled the dice a little, so now I deal with the consequences. I DO need legal advice, I have to know what QC can do to me. There was some other stuff. The point is, I don't mind someone correcting me. But, if you have to act like I'm an idiot to do it, maybe just save it for a better man. That's all.

[Red Clay Rambler]

lowrange, is your tractor paid for?