FACTORING ?

[BigRich]

Hey folks,

Im new to the trucking industry and never used a factoring company before. Im considering using Apex Capital Corp. for there factoring and fuel card services.

Any comments or complaints on their company?

[BigDiesel]

If you need to factor look at your business bank first. If they do this, the rates will be cheaper. Many factoring companies are nothing more than payday loan sharks.

[hoohaa]

Hey folks,

Im new to the trucking industry and never used a factoring company before. Im considering using Apex Capital Corp. for there factoring and fuel card services.

Any comments or complaints on their company?

If you are thinking about getting your authority, the last question you should be asking, is about factoring.

If you already have your authority, then only use a non recourse company.
The only one I know of is D&S, there may be others.

None recourse means, that you are not responsible, if the broker does not pay.

Also use factoring sparingly.
I would take quick pay before I would factor.

Reputable brokers, will have quickpay avalable.

[GMAN]

I agree with hoohaa on the non-recourse factoring. If you plan on factoring it is often less costly to go with a non-recourse factor. You need to read the contract very carefully. Some of the recourse factors can charge as much as 1% per week until the invoice is paid. You could wind up spending more for the factor fees with recourse than the other way around. D & S is one of the better known non-recourse factors.

Some brokers do offer a quick pay program. Rates can range from 1-8% or possibly more.

[trinitron]

Quick pay is just another term for non-recourse factoring. Same thing

[GMAN]

It is not uncommon for many industries to offer a discount if payment is received more quickly. For instance, there are companies who regularly offer a 2% cash discount for prepayment or if payment was made in 7 or 10 days from the date of the invoice. There are a few brokers who will pay within 24-48 hours for a 1-2% discount. If you need the money it is a good way to keep the cash flow going without giving away the farm. I would not pay any more than 2% for quick pay. If I had to pay more than that then I would factor the receivable.

[Doghouse]

Don't you just love the fact that the brokers charge the carrier extra to get your money quicker??? It's all crap,..these morons should pay as soon as delivery is completed.
I will only use a factoring company if I suspect the broker is a scab and has a poor pay history. Always go for non-recourse,...so you don't get back charged 60 days later,....when the scab broker who already got paid,......pulls a chew n' screw on you the carrier.

[GMAN]

I have a couple of people with whom I do business who sit down and write me a check when I present them my bills. I just picked up a check from one today. There are no discounts on either of them for paying quickly. The other guy will cut a check the day he receives my bills. He will either mail the check or if I want to pay for over night delivery he will put it in a FedEx or UPS envelope for me.

I have had a few brokers whom I have hauled military freight. Some want to charge as much as 8% to pay in about a week. The military pays within 24-72 hours. If you don't pay the quick pay fee then they want to hold your money for 30 days. That is ridiculous!!! I don't mind paying 1-2% if I can have the money in my account within 48 hours, but won't pay any more just to get my money early. If I need the money earlier then I will factor it and give the factor the 5% rather than give it to the broker.

I agree, I think these people need to pay the haul bill COD. It would really simplify things. I doubt that most brokers could stay in business if they had to pay the haul bill upon delivery.

[Doghouse]

Exactly Gman,..I have one shipper I haul for who pays me the moment I deliver,....I fax her the signed BOL and a check arrives at my home 4 days later. Then I drop the origional BOL in the mail to her and start over again. I also haul military loads and the broker takes 5% and then wires the money into my account within 24hrs.
I dont get why the brokers hang onto the money for up to 8 weeks. I personally won't haul for that kind of broker,...or I will non-recourse factor them,...just because I don't trust them.
I tend to lean towards the brokers as the biggest problems in the trucking industry,..even more so than high fuel and insurance prices.

[BigRich]

Ok, good info. Looks like no one really loves a broker or the fees. Im hoping to get enough cash reserve established to not need the quick pay or factoring companies, but might not have to much choice at first.

Ive been looking into CH Robinson which offers quick pay at a 1.5% fee.. How do you guys feel about that company??...do they pay well?

[DD60]

Ive been looking into CH Robinson which offers quick pay at a 1.5% fee.. How do you guys feel about that company??...do they pay well?

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Ch robberson pays well when they really need a truck.

[Rockatansky]

I have had a few brokers whom I have hauled military freight. Some want to charge as much as 8% to pay in about a week. The military pays within 24-72 hours. If you don't pay the quick pay fee then they want to hold your money for 30 days. That is ridiculous!!!

Where I come from, it's called being a thief! :evil:
That broker is making interest on that money.
Interest you could be making.

I don't mind paying 1-2% if I can have the money in my account within 48 hours, but won't pay any more just to get my money early. If I need the money earlier then I will factor it and give the factor the 5% rather than give it to the broker.

Good advice.

[whoopNride]

Ive been looking into CH Robinson which offers quick pay at a 1.5% fee.. How do you guys feel about that company??...do they pay well?


CH Robinson's money is good, by that I mean you will not have to worry about getting paid. As far as paying well, they are like any other broker. They will start out at the very bottom rate, if you jump on it (Your Bad) they will surely give it to ya. If they need to move a load ,then the ball is in your court, what you do with it is up to you.

Advice: Figure out what rate you need to make a profit and stick with it. Normally you can get that rate, although it will take some negociating. If not and you miss the load, So What, if I cant make what I need on it, I Dont Need IT.[/url]

[merrick4]

I think the whole recourse vs non-recourse is a bit overblown. Depending on the amount, I am starting to lean towards a recourse factor. (not for me mind you as I don't factor enough)

For instance, I set my friend up with D&S factors. Admittedly things were getting tight for him with the increase in fuel. It's a lot harder to wait out for better rates if you have 14 drivers in trucks. They might not understand the wait times. Further I've found some wasteful spending which we are now trying to correct.

Anyway for the first month he did about $70,000 and the fee for the month was about $3500. I am now switching him to a recourse which will have him pay 2.5% instead of the 5%.

As for the recourse, if you do what you are supposed to do, that is check people's credit before you haul a load, then the recourse vs non-recourse shouldn't be an issue.

By the way full disclosure, I just signed up to become an agent for a factoring company. But they are looking for carriers that factor a large amount so I'm not trying to sell anything but just that I'd be open about that.

[Bigmon]

Merrick,

Can you clear up something I heard about factoring. I was told by a banker that non-recourse doesn't mean you're off the hook if they don't pay.

He said it means you still owe them but, they take it out of future invoices instead of the one that didn't pay. They also file a UCC lien against your business. Does this sound right?


BTW...iced coffee is now in CA at McDonalds.

[Dispatch_This]

Someone on this forum had a real bad experience with a non-recourse factor. Think it was D&S. If I remember correctly, D&S took the reserve when a broker didn't pay. The trucker complained, they stated that non-recourse only covers an invoice(s) when the broker files for babkruptcy. If he just closes his doors and disappears, your SOL.

[Dispatch_This]

Joymax_Trans2

Senior Trucker


Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 121

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:27 am Post subject:

ncnewbie,

There was no contract. So the answer to Q1 & Q2 is NO.

I also received a real good understanding of what is meant by non-recourse. There is non-recourse if there is a credit issue with the broker. Let's say the broker filed for bankruptcy - then there is non-recourse to the Carrier. If that is not the case and they are still doing business but just not paying the factoring company then the factoring company can seek payment from the Carrier.

I was under the impression that is was best not to sign a contract but in reality if you are going to deal with a factoring company, seek one using a contract because everything is spelled out and there are no grey areas. With no contract - you have no idea what's going on with the factoring company, legal or unlegal.

[merrick4]

Well Dispatch_This has this right. What a fallacy this non-recourse this is. I'll tell you how I just found out too.

First off the company I am an agent for is a recourse factor. However just a moment ago I logged in to see if a bill I factored with D&S was paid. It said it was short paid $50. I called up to see what happened next and sure enough they said it would come out of my next settlement. I asked what non-recourse was and she said what Dispatch_This wrote.

Basically she said that if it's any type of paperwork issue then we will be charged for it but only companies going out of business would be a non-recourse.

As for the UCC lien, I would say that is right too as I saw something to that effect on my business credit report. In the end I guess this non-recourse things is highly misunderstood. 5% is quite a bit for a semi-recourse factor.

By the way, I called the company that short paid me and they apologized and will be sending out the money.

Glad to know also Bigmon about the iced coffee but I heard it was still only in the 60's there; they need to bring up the temperature before I go back there.

[Useless]

If you need to factor look at your business bank first. If they do this, the rates will be cheaper. Many factoring companies are nothing more than payday loan sharks.

Well Stated, BD!!

Back when I was starting out in the medical equipment manufacturing business, we used factoring agents, but that was for the purpose of getting us over cash flow humps as we were growing and having to pay the next 90 days worth of operating expenses with the previous 90 days worth of revenue.

As a temporary remedy, it worked, although it meant leaving some profits on the table. I don't know enough about the economics of the trucking industry to be able to say whether or not it would be a viable long term tool for operating.

I know that you know quite a bit about making sense out of trucking dollars.

Perhaps you might have more information to share??

[Dispatch_This]

Factoring all your frieght bills through non-recourse could easily cost you $15-20,000 a year right off your bottom line. 5% on each invoice works out to an APR of around 72%. That's insane.