Cummins is now selling nearly twice as much engines as CAT

[allan5oh]

The company said it is reviewing its strategic options for its highway engine unit, and any move would take place after 2010. Heavy-duty truck engines sales have lagged as customers made purchases last year ahead of stricter U.S. emissions standards. Caterpillar's market share for the engines fell to 21 percent through August this year, 8 percentage points below the same period last year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...87&refer=home&...

Even though this market is down significantly from the prior year, the
Company continues to gain market share, reflecting customer preference for
Cummins' emissions-compliant products. Through August, the Company held a
market-leading 36 percent share of the North America Class 8 truck engine
market, compared to 27 percent at the end of 2006.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../25/c8116.html

29% share to 21% share 2006 vs 2007 to august for CAT

27% share to 36% share 2006 vs 2007 to august for cummins

Considering CAT used to have a 38% market share, this is huge.

[allan5oh]

translated to cold hard numbers, using the same period(beginning to august) of class 8 truck sales:

Cat sold 60,882 units in 2006, 33,887 in 2007
Cummins sold 56,683 in 2006, 42,067 in 2007

Cat has sold 26,995 less engines this year
Cummins sold 14,616 less engines this year

[thebaldeagle655]

Let's see, more power, better fuel mileage, lower maintenance and repair costs, don't know why anyone would go Cummins

I know with my Cummins I can walk away from our trucks that have the Cat motor running up the pass on I-70 West of Denver and the Cummins get 1/2 to 1 MPG better in our trucks.

[LOAD IT]

Where is DDC in this. I was with Cummins plant 1 during the 90's and everyday was a dogfight for marketshare. Cat Cummins and DDC each had about 1/3 of the market, What has the CAT stock prices done, what has the CUMMINS stock prices done? I would rather have a CUMMINS, but I am biased. CUMMINS puts a lot of time and research into their products. I left when that 600 hit the market which they modeled after the A model CAT. The ISX is a detuned Sig 600.

[allan5oh]

Combined, the Series 60 and MBE 4000 enjoy 27% of the Class 8 Market.

I'll try to find more.

Detroit is going to continue to slip, because they're only available in freightshakers.

I think cummins is the way of the future.

[solo379]

So what? Since when, the "market share", is mean "quality"?
"Freightshaker", i believe, still has the largest "market share", is it mean it's the best? :P

[allan5oh]

You cannot really compare the two.

Freightliner deals more with fleets.

When someone goes to buy a truck, EVERYONE has aero trucks now, so if they're concerned about fuel mileage, they can go to either make.

What we're clearly seeing, is that with higher fuel(now averaging $3.31 a gallon) people are going away from the cat engines.

[solo379]

What we're clearly seeing, is that with higher fuel(now averaging $3.31 a gallon) people are going away from the cat engines.

Well, may be that's not CAT's to blame, but people who drive it? :P
I'm averaging 7.01mpg since new(330,000+miles), and 7.4 mpg for the last couple month(slowed down a bit) but still don't drive 60mph(except OH).
And my best week, was 8.1mpg... :wink: 8)

[allan5oh]

Well I'll say it again, that's simply amazing.

[solo379]

Thanks Allan!
You know, when i was considering of buying this truck, I've asked the folks at a CAT dealership in Girard, OH (I do all my engine work there, and we are quiet friendly), how is the fuel economy on those Acerts, from what they hear?

They said;-Why do you care? You'll still do better! 8)
They still keep printout from my old 3406E "kitty" 550hp, just to show some folks, what CAT's could do, if treated properly! :wink:

[allan5oh]

3406e was a GREAT engine, I'm just not a huge fan of these new ACERTS. I know you'll argue with me about that until your face turns blue, but I've asked quite a few guys around here what they get with those engines, and it's not pretty.

I've also heard of 2 guys at my company that had them, and the turbos blew. $8,000 later(2 turbos and the charge air cooler).

[solo379]

I know you'll argue with me about that until your face turns blue,

No, i will not! :P
So far, it's prove itself like excellent performer, and nothing breaks...yet!
And yes, it could be expensive... :sad:

[GMAN]

I still prefer CAT. I read somewhere that CAT plans to spend more of their resources on off road engines, such as those in bulldozers, etc., since they don't have to worry so much about the environmental issues. One other concern all of the major engine manufacturers should have is that Navistar (International) has come out with their own engine. Paccar (Peterbilt & Kenworth) is also developing their own engines. This will erode market share for everyone. It seems like all of the major truck manufacturers are developing their own engines. Freightliner has been pushing their Mercedes engines. Of course Volvo has their own engine. I expect to see a shake up in this segment of the market. Things could get interesting.

[allan5oh]

To be honest those all had engines when cat had 38% market share.

[GMAN]

Some years ago several truck manufacturers made their own engines. Most of them stopped some years ago, except for Mack. I don't think it has been that long ago since they stopped production on their engines. The Mack 427 was a good engine. International just started making engines for their class 8 trucks this year. Paccar is still in development as far as I know. Of course, Mercedes has been making engines for some time, but only in the last few years have they been made available in Freightliner trucks. Volvo seemed to stop putting their engines in those trucks marketed in the U.S. for a time. There seems to be more of a push for them to once again begin using their own engines. The more competition the smaller market share all of them will have. Detroit stopped selling their engines to everyone but Freightliner when Mercedes bought them out. CAT still has the lions share of the off road and big equipment engines. I would not pass on a truck with a Cummins engine. It would certainly cost less to overhaul it than a CAT. The difference is that the CAT seems to go longer before needing major engine work. I would like to see the hard statistics. Numbers can be manipulated very easily. In any case, I would prefer to have a truck with either a CAT, Cummins or Detroit. The main reason is the availability of parts and finding someone who can work on them. It will likely take some time before parts will be more widely available. I don't want to buy any truck that must be taken back to the dealer for repairs. I always feel that I get ripped off every time I go to a dealer for mechanic work. Call me crazy, but I don't think a shop is worth over $100/hour. :shock:

[allan5oh]

Volvo has had their own engine for a good 10 years now.

International used to have their own engine, maybe they stopped for a few years?

I heard that paccar engine is junk. Talked to a guy with one of them(he was testing for paccar). Been in the shop at least once a month for several days. Last time his fan hub blew, and launched the fan into the rad!

Kevin Rutherford has stated the new cat ACERTS generally cost more to operate, both in fuel and maintenance. That's from 4,000 o/o's worth of data. His company does all accounting/tax returns for them.

[solo379]

Kevin Rutherford has stated the new cat ACERTS generally cost more to operate,

It's also cost more to operate Cadillac, than Hyundai... :P :wink:

[Mackman]

I still prefer CAT. I read somewhere that CAT plans to spend more of their resources on off road engines, such as those in bulldozers, etc., since they don't have to worry so much about the environmental issues. One other concern all of the major engine manufacturers should have is that Navistar (International) has come out with their own engine. Paccar (Peterbilt & Kenworth) is also developing their own engines. This will erode market share for everyone. It seems like all of the major truck manufacturers are developing their own engines. Freightliner has been pushing their Mercedes engines. Of course Volvo has their own engine. I expect to see a shake up in this segment of the market. Things could get interesting.

Hey G-Man dont forget about MACK :wink:

[special k]

These guys play with numbers so much it's almost impossible to get the real truth. In 2000 when I bought my Pete you had to special order anything other than a CAT motor. If you did order a Detroit or Cummins the warranty was shorter than CAT so in the end it would have cost 5 grand more for a DDC or Cummins. That was in Southern Ontario at both Pete and Kenworth dealers. So at that time almost all the paccar trucks had CAT's in them.
At Fergus this year we looked at both K-W's and Pete dump trucks. The K-W had a CAT in it and it was awful. I think it would run into the thousands just to replace the the exhaust when it rusted out. The Pete had a Cummins in it and was so much cleaner and simpler. The dealer said this coming year they were ordering 50% of their stock trucks with Cummins just because of plumbing issues with the CAT's and their customer's were trading in ACCERT's and saying they couldn't handle the poor fuel mileage. I'm a CAT man but I know if I had to buy a new truck tomorrow the engine wouldn't be yellow.

[GMAN]

I still prefer CAT. I read somewhere that CAT plans to spend more of their resources on off road engines, such as those in bulldozers, etc., since they don't have to worry so much about the environmental issues. One other concern all of the major engine manufacturers should have is that Navistar (International) has come out with their own engine. Paccar (Peterbilt & Kenworth) is also developing their own engines. This will erode market share for everyone. It seems like all of the major truck manufacturers are developing their own engines. Freightliner has been pushing their Mercedes engines. Of course Volvo has their own engine. I expect to see a shake up in this segment of the market. Things could get interesting.

Hey G-Man dont forget about MACK :wink:

I would never forget about Mack. I mentioned them in an earlier post. As far as I know Mack doesn't make any of the engines that go into their class 8 trucks. Their 427 was one of the best engines on the market at one time according to some to whom I have spoken who ran them. I would not be surprised if they jumped back into the market since everyone else seems to want to get into the engine market. The problem that I have with any of them is the easy availability of parts and finding someone who can work on them who is not a dealership.