California strikes again!

[no_worries]

CARB has really become irrelevant as modern technology has made requiring stricter emissions in California rather obsolete.

Really, how so?

[PackRatTDI]

CARB has really become irrelevant as modern technology has made requiring stricter emissions in California rather obsolete.

Really, how so?

For example: Cars have been 50 state compliant for years. If you remember the old days, California market cars came with extra cost "California emissions" equipment. Those days are gone. However CARB needs a reason to be "relevant", so they enforce archaic regulations like the prohibition from registering a car from out of state with less than 7500 miles on it, and these new regulations on diesels.

[SoCal79]

Think about it there are thousands of trucks here in CA can they actually make this happen? I doubt it at least not in their time frame anyway. I am pretty scared about it though because I do OK with no truck payment,throw in $2-3k a month and I am done. I agree my truck smokes bad sometimes, sure I would love an 07, but reality is that I cant afford it and I dont qualify for the "Carl Moyer Program" that pays 80% of a new truck, because I dont run enough miles or burn enough fuel. It feels like the way I make my living is going to be seriously affected and I am going to suffer financially.

[no_worries]

Actually, cars haven't been 50 state compliant for that long. There are 5 states that have adopted CARB's rules for autos. Now, in order to simplify things, manufacturers have chosen to only spec many models as CARB compliant, but you can still find 45-state compliant models as well. You can register an out-of-state vehicle with under 7500 miles provided it is "California certified." That's because there are still new cars made that are only "federally certified."

The fact is, that even when the technology is out there, nobody is going to voluntarily use it. As someone that lives in CA, we need rules. But even though I disagree about the necessity of CARB, I wholeheartedly agree with you about how they've gone about things. A headlong approach without any consideration of the impact on the economy is irresponsibly at best and downright destructive at worst. I see the DOT has warned the ports here about getting too aggressive and stifling interstate commerce. I have to believe that at some point the same thing will come into play regarding these diesel regulations.

[Ian Williams]

It seems that they have exhausted all other forms of smog reduction so now they are going after us. Every truck base plated in CA must meet 2007 emissions by 2009,and they want every truck that travels in and out of CA to be able prove a LOW NOX reflash of the computer. I have been making calls to the various Govt. agencies involved and get the same response, that this is real and it is going to happen. Here is a link to an info page (aimed at dump trucks) but you get the idea.

http://www.cdtoa.org/pdf_gov/CTN_09TruckSurvey.pdf

Good thing I didn't buy that 95 Pete I was looking at, looks like it will be worhtless in CA by 2010.

This is easy to stiff arm. Just go to a dealer for your engine; reflash for Low NOX, get a letter stating that is was reflashed and then go back to the
older software.

I don't see how they can regulate a truck base plated in another state. Heck even as a dirt hauler you could take your truck to Reno or Salt Lake for a few months, put on some interstate miles and be ok.

Working for the part of Con-Way that was formerly CWX all our power units are registered in OR. Units assigned to CA terminals are cycled through system for a few months each year to get interstate miles.

The flip side if & when this passes is they have just put up a big fat barrier to entry for competition. Rates should go up.

[Bobby]

Think about it there are thousands of trucks here in CA can they actually make this happen? I doubt it at least not in their time frame anyway. I am pretty scared about it though because I do OK with no truck payment,throw in $2-3k a month and I am done. I agree my truck smokes bad sometimes, sure I would love an 07, but reality is that I cant afford it and I dont qualify for the "Carl Moyer Program" that pays 80% of a new truck, because I dont run enough miles or burn enough fuel. It feels like the way I make my living is going to be seriously affected and I am going to suffer financially.

I'm in the CDTOA Ca. dump truck owners Assc.
And we have been having meeting regarding this.
Had one two weeks ago with reps from CARB and they have posponed this abit I've heard to gather more info from the industry.

They need financial info to know the impact. I think there is a form on their web site to fill out. YOU need to do this so they know what the affects of this program will have.

They haven't even formally contacted truck owners yet. The number of trucks in Ca is suppose to be around 300K. Their going to send out post cards when they do.

I think when they do the feathers will start to fly.

Most of our members have 1994 trucks and older. Their older guys getting ready to retire....

According to the people making the devises to add on to a truck to clean it up these trucks won't clean up to the standards in place.

The devices aren't cheap either...I've heard $12 to 22K for one installed and they will need to be seviced at a cost of several hundred dollars a pop.

People need to get organized to deal with this.

[SoCal79]

I have filled out the survey,done two actually one simple form and one for ARB that was asking for details about miles run,income and gallons burned. I went to a meeting with the CDTOA and ARB, CARB, & CHP, it felt hostile we were pretty much told that if we wanted to truck in CA we better be 07 compliant,end of discussion. I dont think taking my truck out of state to try to dodge it a realistic option,I think it will be put off for a bit and hopefully phased in over a longer period. Construction is dead right now and wont recover anytime soon,so now is not the time to be looking for more debt.

[PackRatTDI]

Actually, cars haven't been 50 state compliant for that long. There are 5 states that have adopted CARB's rules for autos. Now, in order to simplify things, manufacturers have chosen to only spec many models as CARB compliant, but you can still find 45-state compliant models as well. You can register an out-of-state vehicle with under 7500 miles provided it is "California certified." That's because there are still new cars made that are only "federally certified."

The federal government should have NEVER allowed any other states to adopt CARB regulations. CARB was created to deal with the unique situation that Southern California dealt with.

The fact is, that even when the technology is out there, nobody is going to voluntarily use it. As someone that lives in CA, we need rules. But even though I disagree about the necessity of CARB, I wholeheartedly agree with you about how they've gone about things. A headlong approach without any consideration of the impact on the economy is irresponsibly at best and downright destructive at worst. I see the DOT has warned the ports here about getting too aggressive and stifling interstate commerce. I have to believe that at some point the same thing will come into play regarding these diesel regulations.

CARB has become more of a political organization than an environmental one. Forces at CARB have been trying to circumvent the federal governments position on the Kyoto treaty by trying to regulate CO2 emissions and charging taxes accordingly.

[allan5oh]

There's a much better way to regulate co2 standards.

Regulate fuel mileage, since they're directly related.

[no_worries]

Everything they do is based in sound science, that makes them a good environmental agency. The problem is they too often fail to consider the impact on any other part of society. They're the classic definition of overzealous. Sure it will work, but it's often far from the best approach.

[Ian Williams]

There's a much better way to regulate co2 standards.

Regulate fuel mileage, since they're directly related.

Ironically all this emissions control gear drags down mileage 10-25% versus what it would be on the same engine without any EGR, DPF etc etc etc.

There should be a GPS receiver tied into every ECM. When the equipment goes into urban areas the goes into "clean" mode. Reducing emisisons in empty areas like the Great Basin on I80 between Reno and Salt Lake City is just stupid.

[GMAN]

I can't help but wonder that if you reduce your mpg's by 20% or more and use more fuel that you are actually putting more pollutants into the air. Perhaps that is just too simple for politicians to understand.

[beeiatch]

You should all be concerned on Jan 1 2008, California "No Idle law goes into effect, You are only allowed 5 min of idling, period. No idling for sleeper berth anymore. The only approved devices will be APUs and by 2009 all APUs have to be CARB certified or retrofitted to CARB certification.

You you want to know more check out the latest Landline magazine.

California strikes again.