t600 or pete 387 or ???

[gwilukrz]

I am looking to buy my first truck and would like some opinions from those of you who have experience in these trucks. I am also considering a Columbia/Century, but would prefer to stay away from these because of resale and, from what I have read on these boards, build quality. I drive local/regional out of Dallas, all 53' vans. Load weights range from 10-44k. I am keeping a budget of 50k and would like miles under 500k and preferrably not a stripped down truck, but something that rides well. Thanks in advance for your input....

[GMAN]

Either truck would serve you well. The 387 has more room in the front and the sleeper area is more open. Fuel mileage should be fairly comparably equipped.

[rank]

$50,000.....what year does that put you into? 2005? I really don't know much about anything that new. I can help with 1995 - 2001 Kenworths. Been on, under and in every inch of them in seems.

[gwilukrz]

50k I'm hoping will get me 2004-2005. With Pete or KW I have noticed will have about 500k on the miles, the frieghtliners will have 350-500k on miles, but I would like to get atleast a 2004 to keep the miles down. Everything older seems to have more miles on them. Can anybody tell me what the typical rebuild time is on Cummins and Cat motors? It seems the Detroits are about 750k. I know about the maint playing a big part and all, so that comment can be skipped. I just have not seen anybody say what a typical rebuild milage is on the Cat and Cummins. I will get all the checks and inspections done before purchase. Based on the avg miles I am seeing on the trucks I have looked at, I am planning on an inframe at some point. I would like to have a couple of years with the truck to bank some savings for that job, of course the longer I can put it off the better but nothing is guaranteed when it comes to trucking.

[GMAN]

I would expect to have an in-frame somewhere around or after 750,000 miles. You can go more than 1MM miles before having an in-frame. It is all in the maintenance. I would not get too hung up on miles. You can often find a truck with higher miles which has been well maintained and had an overhaul or major engine work. I would not want to spend $50,000 on a truck that I would expect to overhaul in a year or two.

[nsxman2001]

I think you should do an oil analysis on whatever truck u buy because my friend just want thru a very bad situation this past summer with his truck. his engine failed at 690,000 miles and the warranty company paided 20,000 dollars to replace the engine. he was luck because they put in a new remanufactured engine because they could not find a good used engine..The hold process took almost 8 weeks while the dealer and warranty company want back and forth his finances suffered he almost lost the truck because he was not working while the truck was getting fixed. A good used truck is hard to find u just have to take your time and look for one with service records..

Good luck!

[rank]

We've got 700,000 on a C15 cat.
625,000 on a rebuilt a N14 Cummins.
Had 1,000,000 on a series 60 Detroit.

[Graymist]

I would expect to have an in-frame somewhere around or after 750,000 miles. You can go more than 1MM miles before having an in-frame. It is all in the maintenance. I would not get too hung up on miles. You can often find a truck with higher miles which has been well maintained and had an overhaul or major engine work. I would not want to spend $50,000 on a truck that I would expect to overhaul in a year or two.

How does one decide when an inframe-job is due ? What does it actually entail in terms of the work required to be done, and cost ? How is it different from a rebuilt engine ? Which one is preferable, a rebuilt or an inframe ? Thanks.

[LexAtlanta]

$50K should get you in the 2003 to 2004 range depending on the overall quality of the truck. Mileage should be in the 500,000s. As G-Man said the Pete will have more interior room and fuel mileage should be about the same between them. A UOA might be tough if the oil has been changed recently. For us we do a PM and change the oil on all incoming trucks. Try and find out who the previous owner was. If it was a fleet it was probably well maintained. If it was a private owner it could be hit or miss. I would also give serious consideration to purchasing an extended warranty.

Whatever you buy, enjoy it!

[GMAN]

I would expect to have an in-frame somewhere around or after 750,000 miles. You can go more than 1MM miles before having an in-frame. It is all in the maintenance. I would not get too hung up on miles. You can often find a truck with higher miles which has been well maintained and had an overhaul or major engine work. I would not want to spend $50,000 on a truck that I would expect to overhaul in a year or two.

How does one decide when an inframe-job is due ? What does it actually entail in terms of the work required to be done, and cost ? How is it different from a rebuilt engine ? Which one is preferable, a rebuilt or an inframe ? Thanks.

An in-frame is a rebuild. You may be thinking of a re-manufactured engine. The remain engine is usually done at the factory. You pull your old engine out and put the new one in. Those are rather expensive. A remained CAT runs about $25,000, as I recall. Most engines can be rebuilt from about $10-18,000. With the last work I just had done on one truck my rebuild is about $25,000.

An in-frame replaces the pistons, liners, injectors, sleeves, o-rings, turbo, oil pump, water pump, bearings, cam shaft, etc., You basically replace all the moving parts and bearings. It may not be necessary to replace the injectors and turbo, but I would not want to rebuild an engine without doing so. Some re-builders may not want to warranty an engine without replacing all the components. Some may also want to replace the radiator. Of course, all belts and hoses should also be replaced. There are different levels of re-builds. Personally, I think it is a good idea to just replace everything while you have things torn down.

There are signs that an engine is having problems. If you drive a truck on a regular basis, you should be able to tell a difference in how the tuck performs. Loss of power, smoking, missing, etc., are common signs. If you regularly do an oil analysis, you can also spot problems with excessive wear before they become critical.

[Graymist]

An in-frame is a rebuild. You may be thinking of a re-manufactured engine. The remain engine is usually done at the factory. You pull your old engine out and put the new one in. Those are rather expensive. A remained CAT runs about $25,000, as I recall. Most engines can be rebuilt from about $10-18,000. With the last work I just had done on one truck my rebuild is about $25,000.

An in-frame replaces the pistons, liners, injectors, sleeves, o-rings, turbo, oil pump, water pump, bearings, cam shaft, etc., You basically replace all the moving parts and bearings. It may not be necessary to replace the injectors and turbo, but I would not want to rebuild an engine without doing so. Some re-builders may not want to warranty an engine without replacing all the components. Some may also want to replace the radiator. Of course, all belts and hoses should also be replaced. There are different levels of re-builds. Personally, I think it is a good idea to just replace everything while you have things torn down.

There are signs that an engine is having problems. If you drive a truck on a regular basis, you should be able to tell a difference in how the tuck performs. Loss of power, smoking, missing, etc., are common signs. If you regularly do an oil analysis, you can also spot problems with excessive wear before they become critical.

Thanks a bunch, Gman, for taking the time to explain it to me.

[GMAN]

You are welcome, Graymist. One thing I will mention about the injectors and a rebuild. If you don't replace the injectors during a rebuild and drop a tip and mess up the engine, the warranty will likely not cover the damage, which will be rather expensive. :x

[Mandilon]

$50K should get you in the 2003 to 2004 range depending on the overall quality of the truck.

I've read that 2004's and newer trucks run much hotter than pre 2004's. How much more problamatic are these newer tractors or is it an insignifficant factor not worth considering?

Drive safe

[enobeenob]

I would go with a pre-emission 2003 or older truck, better fuel mileage, less engine heat, only one ECM computer = less headache.

2004-2007 run a little hotter, which affects the longevity of under the hood components. They have at least three ECM and multiple EGR sensors. Fuel mileage is lower than pre-emission engines.

2008 with their Diesel Particule Filters are too new to know the reliability of the engines, IMO more sensors= More headaches.

IMO, If you want to keep your wallet heavy stay with a pre-emission engine.

[GMAN]

I have a CAT in my International with almost 900,000 miles and it seems to be doing very well. But, I have changed the oil about every 15,000 miles. I hope to get over a million on it before having to rebuild it. I have spoken to some who have gone over a million miles before having to do an in-frame.

[Mandilon]

I have a CAT in my International with almost 900,000 miles and it seems to be doing very well. But, I have changed the oil about every 15,000 miles. I hope to get over a million on it before having to rebuild it. I have spoken to some who have gone over a million miles before having to do an in-frame.

GMAN,

You change your oil every month-and-a-half to 2 months?

Don't you like the synthetic oils? Seems like they would go at least twice the distance, get better fuel mileage and save you on engine wear.

I once read an article where they ran a 1965 Lincoln Continental for 100,000 miles on the same oil. They tore the engine down and claim engine wear was not Noticeable, that they could have thrown the engine parts back into the assembly line and assemblers wouldn't have notice they wre USED components.

-My opinion. I wouldn't hasitate to run 100% synthetics on trucking equipment.

God Bless all

[ToxicWaste]

$50K should get you in the 2003 to 2004 range depending on the overall quality of the truck. Mileage should be in the 500,000s. As G-Man said the Pete will have more interior room and fuel mileage should be about the same between them. A UOA might be tough if the oil has been changed recently. For us we do a PM and change the oil on all incoming trucks. Try and find out who the previous owner was. If it was a fleet it was probably well maintained. If it was a private owner it could be hit or miss. I would also give serious consideration to purchasing an extended warranty.

Whatever you buy, enjoy it!

If you buy it from arrow's lot

[gwilukrz]

Since I've seen some recent reply's, I thought I would update everyone who is reading.....I bought an '05 387 the beginning of Dec. I love the truck and I am learning all the quirks of this model and this truck. I cannot get good CB reception for anything! I have a NEW Radio, NEW Coax, and a NEW Wilson top loaded antenna mounted out back of the sleeper. Not sure how I am getting out, problem is the static volume increases A LOT as the turbo winds up and drowns everybody out. The grounds have been checked at the motor and radio-all seem fine. A RF noise filter did nothing. Anybody have any ideas??? I talked with a guy who had the same model but an '03 and same antenna set up and he was recieving about 10 miles and no static issue! Thanks for all of your input.

[GMAN]

I have a CAT in my International with almost 900,000 miles and it seems to be doing very well. But, I have changed the oil about every 15,000 miles. I hope to get over a million on it before having to rebuild it. I have spoken to some who have gone over a million miles before having to do an in-frame.

GMAN,

You change your oil every month-and-a-half to 2 months?

Don't you like the synthetic oils? Seems like they would go at least twice the distance, get better fuel mileage and save you on engine wear.

I once read an article where they ran a 1965 Lincoln Continental for 100,000 miles on the same oil. They tore the engine down and claim engine wear was not Noticeable, that they could have thrown the engine parts back into the assembly line and assemblers wouldn't have notice they wre USED components.

-My opinion. I wouldn't hasitate to run 100% synthetics on trucking equipment.

God Bless all

It isn't that I don't like the synthetic oils, but the price. Synthetic oil is more expensive and most tell me the recommended change intervals are about the same. I have done well with organic oil and see no need to change the type of oil at this point. Theoretically, I think the synthetic oils could be better for the engine. Some organic oils are now suggesting they can go longer without a change. I change the oil at about 15,000 miles regardless of the time frame. It is probably about every 6 weeks or so.

My choice as to whether to use organic or synthetic oils is based upon the difference in oil change costs and I don't think it is a good idea to make major changes in the type of oil used once you start using a certain type of oil, especially from organic to synthetic. If my engine had fewer miles on it, I might consider it. I think that when you can get at least 900,000 on an engine using organic oil, it is a good idea to keep doing what you are doing.

[thebobguy]

What about the Mack engines (pre-Volvo), I'm a company driver and have a 2001 Mack 460 and it burns about 2 gallons of oil a week! It's the 100 year anniversary special edition, so it has a ton of upgrades..a very nice trcuk but looks like it needs a reman or in line. My company wants to sell it (to me or elsewhere), wondering what a reman/inline might cost and what the value is before said work?