I'm the problem for hauling cheap freight

[Sonny Pruitt]

Then a couple of posts down I see the same person telling a complete stranger how to get their authority and "come on in the water's fine"
type of post.
question:
what's keeps rates down
an occaisional backhaul from Boston
or telling every Tom Dick and Harry how to get their own authority
and how much better off they would be
which just adds to the oversupply of trucks

just wondering

[GMAN]

Telling someone how to get their authority won't keep rates down. Hauling cheap freight will do that.

[rank]

...or telling every Tom Dick and Harry how to get their own authority and how much better off they would be which just adds to the oversupply of trucks

I doubt that has much to do with rates. I need a couple of new trucks from the repo man anyway so bring 'em on.

[LOAD IT]

What's wrong with helping Tom, Dick and Harry get their authority? Its better than Tom Dick and Harry paying some Philadelphia lawyer or Rex Excels.. a couple grand to file the paperwork that cost $300 to file. Also as Gman said that doesnt keep the rates down, but not knowing what you are worth keeps the rates down because you haul for cheap due to sheer ignorance. I dont think it causes an oversupply of trucks because if he's not driving his own truck, he will be driving a company truck and believe it or not,if you are hauling van, flat or reefer, we are ALL competing for the same loads with the same shippers and sometimes brokers, thats the American way.

[solo379]

but not knowing what you are worth keeps the rates down

And what's in your opinion, those "Dick, Tom and Garry", with very limited experience are really worth? :P
BTW Most BIG companies, have a pretty decent rates set up with the customers!

[allan5oh]

All that needs to happen is a little bit of education.

Most drivers don't know their true costs.

Truck drivers, not businessmen.

[Truckdobe]

I agree with the OP because I have talked to too many people who have had their authority for a short time, that have never worked for more than a buck a mile and are NOT business men/women AT ALL!; who sell their services for next to nothing b/c they have no idea what the market will bare or what their CPM is.

The people are also seldom interested in finding out what a decent rate is, don't care that they drive rates down and don't care what their real CPM is.

They really think that they are just so much smarter than those of us that have been out here for years. They really think that their $10k truck and $5k trailer will last forever and anyone that buys decent equipment and charges enough to repair and replace is just plain stupid.

They can have all the freight. I will NOT meet their rates. I expect (and make) enough to maintain my equipment, pay myself well and provide all benefits (including retirement) and make a profit; anything less is a hobby, not a business.

All of them aren't that way, but so many are.

[marcel27208]

hey i just hauled a load 500 miles for 400 bucks!!!!!

[marcel27208]

im just kidding!!!!

[merrick4]

but not knowing what you are worth keeps the rates down

And what's in your opinion, those "Dick, Tom and Garry", with very limited experience are really worth? :P
BTW Most BIG companies, have a pretty decent rates set up with the customers!

I think LoadIT is right. Like I've been saying you can go work for a company all you want but how are you supposed to know the rates. I don't mean just know your expenses either. You can still be covering your expenses and not earning what you should be earning. Very few on here post their numbers. Rank does but it's for flatbed and it's in that funny Canandian money . Mike3 has been doing a great job posting the numbers but it's for tankers.

So how do we know are worth? I think also if I may humbly suggest that since in this age of brokers that we are one stepped removed from the shipper which makes it even more difficult. I wonder how things worked in th 70's if drivers had to rely so much on brokers?

[rank]

They can have all the freight. I will NOT meet their rates. I expect (and make) enough to maintain my equipment, pay myself well and provide all benefits (including retirement) and make a profit; anything less is a hobby, not a business.

You rock.

Can I have a HELL YEAH!

[RostyC]

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!

[merrick4]

You know just to add what I wrote above, I just deadheaded from San Antonio, Tx to Dallas and then delivered in Naples, FL. Total miles came to about 1600 and they paid me $2100. That's after they tried to pay me $1800. So in the end what do I know. I read from here that that's too low, but what do I have to base that on.

Do you see the dilemma not just for me but any new O/O? What do I have to base what I want for rates? I can't tell a broker that's too low cause the folks on CAD say so. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.

I know that people say to figure out your costs, but I'm wondering if that is the true answer. Yes you need to understand your costs. Like owning a store I guess, you need to know your overhead but you also need to know how to price the products you buy. Our products are the loads and different freight lanes and knowing our fixed costs doesn't really help with that.

The thing is there is a source for all of this. Maybe not one but there must be some type of reason behind all of this. Rates are not set haphazardly. There is some type of basis for them. It's like a stock there are fundementals behind the price of the stock and people who understand those fundementals will know how to price a stock. This in the end is what I'm getting at, I need to learn the fundementals behind these rates and lanes. I know this is not an easy thing nor a one sentence answer.

[pepe4158]

The thing that gets me is a little over ten years ago when I started in this buiz, I would hear the own Auth Ops say to each other, 'dont haul cheap freight'.........well ten years latter they are still saying it as chaep freight will disapear then, if not hauling it will make it go away...then why didnt that work ten years ago??????
Bottom line its my buizz and yes I do haul cheap freight when its all I can get...do I want to no!....ask anyone working for 10 an hour who wants 15...are you happy to work for ten?...Hell no!
Problem is I gotta have work n I fight to get the best I can , hold out for a better rate as long as I can then I fiqure its every truck for themselves when push comes to shove......as Steve has pointed out, Id rather have feul n shower $ just to get me in a better lane then eat the $ too do it myself...I respect G-man for sticking to his principles, but when push comes to shove I gotta do what I gotta do!
By the way....no one said it was so great to me being an own Auth O/op...I did it cuz I need my independence....and was my best option for now.....I traded one hassle for another but knew that.....mos here say I just bought a job, Im fine with that :-p................................................. ...
You know on another note....I tried to ask the brokers here what exactly creates cheap freight? IMO its mostly these guys broker the loads to each other 4 or 5 times.....each time one of them taking 100 bucks or so of the load...crao they have to stop that practice if thats what does it.......not the driver stuck in B>F>E> trying to get anything out.

[Ridge Runner]

Not pointing any fingers at anyone but I have to ask because I really don't know: If you haul cheap, do you build a name for yourself for hauling cheap? ( With the brokers you work with anyway ). I would think you would lose your position of barganing power if they KNOW you will haul cheap.

Just my $.02 in an area of this business that I know NOTHING about.


Ridge

[pepe4158]

Not pointing any fingers at anyone but I have to ask because I really don't know: If you haul cheap, do you build a name for yourself for hauling cheap? ( With the brokers you work with anyway ). I would think you would lose your position of barganing power if they KNOW you will haul cheap.

Just my $.02 in an area of this business that I know NOTHING about.


Ridge

Hmmm if they would care to know you...quess it would matter then.....most are calling me Pee-pee when i call them back (not Pepe)
N could give a **** about the last load they booked with me n forgot who i am.
Case in oint....I called a broker just an hour ago....she put me on hold more then 5 minutes so i hung up....called her back an hour latter, n she forgot she had put me on hold an hour ago, im just one pee in a pot of million to her, the days of quality that G-man talks about seem ove in a high volume high tech age.

[allan5oh]

They really think that they are just so much smarter than those of us that have been out here for years. They really think that their $10k truck and $5k trailer will last forever and anyone that buys decent equipment and charges enough to repair and replace is just plain stupid.

I'm going to have to disagree here, to a point. Just because one businessmen has a lower input cost, doesn't mean he hauls cheap freight. Not only that, when freight slows down and the higer input guys are being squeezed, the guys with lower costs will be doing fine.

I have a truck worth about 20k(bought for 50k) and I'm keeping it for another 5 years at least, it's going to be paid off in a few months.

Does that mean I'm going to work for "Bottom of the barrel"? No, I'm just going to pocket that extra money, or maybe take 3 months a year off instead of 2.

[rank]

Do you see the dilemma not just for me but any new O/O? What do I have to base what I want for rates?

You just have to get in there an mix it up and learn. I write down everyload I call about so I can refer to the rate that was offered. Then 6 months later I can say "I pulled this for so and so last summer when fuel was cheap for $x.xx". I need more than that now. You would be suprised at how they will move up with the rates when they know you're not a chump.

Throw anything you have at the broker to get that rate up. Dead miles to pickup, dead miles to a better fright area afterward, tarp pay (bigger tarps = bigger money), detention after 1 hour, OD permits, wash outs, expensve fuel in that area, I can't deliver at 4pm on Friday and get a reload for the weekend, practical miles....

You can also tell the rate is too cheap by how fast the broker jumps on it. Put that in your memory and next time ask for more. You know you're getting a good rate when they don't agree right away.

When you've agreed to a rate check that the P/U & Del addresses match what he told you....they an be 100 miles out. Ask him to pay you 200 miles extra at the rate you negtiated. Why because you've got 100 extra dead miles to get home now.

Total miles came to about 1600 and they paid me $2100. That's after they tried to pay me $1800.

See, you're already learning
:wink:

[pepe4158]

AGree Rank.....I thought at first all I needed to know was the weight and the rate :-p been finding out the other details too will bite you in the butt

[LOAD IT]

Bottom line its my buizz and yes I do haul cheap freight when its all I can get...do I want to no!....

Problem is I gotta have work n I fight to get the best I can , hold out for a better rate as long as I can then I fiqure its every truck for themselves when push comes to shove......

Steve has pointed out, Id rather have feul n shower $ just to get me in a better lane ...

I respect G-man for sticking to his principles.....

I tried to ask the brokers here what exactly creates cheap freight? IMO its mostly these guys broker the loads to each other 4 or 5 times.....each time one of them taking 100 bucks or so of the load...

It's your buizz but you are helping to ruin everyone elses buizz when you run for cheap. You are hauling broker freight and everyone makes money except for you, the man that delivered the product that the shipper profited from and the broker made a huge profit off of you. You tell the broker, I'm moving my truck in 5 minutes if you cant meet my rate. Then you move the truck, they will remember Pepe then. Next time they will negotiate.

Dont quote Steve, he leaves the house from the northeast getting an excellent headhaul rate with his customers freight and he gets to go home at headhaul rates on the brokers dime. Also he hasnt been at this long enough to see the error in his ways running for "fuel and shower" money.

You need to adopt and stick by Gmans principles along with finding your own shippers in you area, where do you live and what type trlr do you have? You dont have to be dedicated to the shippers but they need to know who you are and that you can give good service.

Double, triple brokering is done by the big boys and the bottom feeders. I have seen some scams run in this arena. How do you stop it? Dont haul a broker load if the shipper doesnt know the broker you got the load from. When you pull away from the dock, the Transportation Manager will rip his broker a new ash and you will probably be loading shipper direct that day. The Transportation Manager doesnt want to lose the truck. If you keep hauling 100% broker freight and haul for cheap, you will go out of business for those two reasons, you can explain it with other reasons, but I know the truth, been there, got the T-shirt.