Well I made it out

[merrick4]

Thanks GMAN. To be honest you were one of the reasons I paid the money to get back on here cause quite frankly, well I better keep my opinions to myself for I personally get banned for real.

I have to be honest, one thing I am afraid of going on my own is not getting paid. I don't see how you guys check brokers credit. I know you mentioned that you have someone to call but how do the rest of us do that?

I do not take that lightly, not being paid that is. As mentioned previously, I have my mortgage prepaid til November. I always pay my bills and often up front. The insurance for this truck and cargo is paid for 12 months already. So when people don't pay their bills and especially if they don't pay me well I don't take that too well. People need to pay their bills and that's all there is to it.

[Doghouse]

I won't be out until October 1st, I have a closing on my last house for sale on the 26Th of August, and I'm being very thorough on my truck repairs.
I keep finding things that will be break downs, and since I now have the time,...I'm going through this truck completely.
I have a huge list of things I've already fixed, and about 20 other things to do.
As far as better rates for you,...I think you can get a better rate,...just practice negotiating with somebody.
Keep in mind that brokers want to ship for dirt, and if you stand your ground,.....better rates will come.
Is it possible for you to just give it a whirl, and try it on your own?

[merrick4]

Yes it's possible but I don't want to burn any bridges. It's only been a month and I have a long way to go. I am feeling more comfortable with things. Still glad I did this though I wish I would have went with my first instinct and just got the truck and tried flatbedding.

I hesitate to say this but what the hell, I don't think I would be making what I am making as a company driver. Before this I only had 6 months OTR experience and I don't even have 18 months on my license. I haven't figured in all my expeses as I'm not sure yet how to figure in stuff like depreciation but I have Quickbooks and every dollar I spend is on a credit card and thus tracked; even my daily iced coffee. So it's not too hard to see where you are. But maybe I'm missing something that's why I put all numbers here. As GMAN says, you can have the wheels rolling and money coming in but still running at a loss.

[Doghouse]

Don't burn your bridges, but try to build you own so you can use both. You're a business owner now, and only you can make it work.
If going out on your own for a few runs burns a bridge, the maybe it should be burned, because its keeping you from running your business to it's full potential

[merrick4]

You are right Doghouse, but don't get me wrong, I can pick and choose if I wan't. That won't be burning my bridges.

[GMAN]

Thanks GMAN. To be honest you were one of the reasons I paid the money to get back on here cause quite frankly, well I better keep my opinions to myself for I personally get banned for real.

I have to be honest, one thing I am afraid of going on my own is not getting paid. I don't see how you guys check brokers credit. I know you mentioned that you have someone to call but how do the rest of us do that?

I do not take that lightly, not being paid that is. As mentioned previously, I have my mortgage prepaid til November. I always pay my bills and often up front. The insurance for this truck and cargo is paid for 12 months already. So when people don't pay their bills and especially if they don't pay me well I don't take that too well. People need to pay their bills and that's all there is to it.

Merrick, there are some credit reporting companies, such as RTS, you can use to check a broker's credit. If I am dealing with a new broker I first check to see if his authority is current and his bond is valid. Some load boards have a rating system to let you know how a broker pays. If his score is in the 90's he is probably a good risk. I prefer a score of at least 92. Some load boards only report that they are factorable with a certain factoring company. Either system will let you know that their credit is likely good. If you want to avoid some of the risk of going on your own, as far as getting paid is concerned, you can factor your loads. There are some who offer non-recourse funding, which means that once the factor accepts the load, it is up to them to collect the money. They cannot charge it back to you if it is non-recourse. Once you factor the load, you can monitor how the broker or shipper pays. If it is acceptable to wait and you can fund your business until the money starts coming back in, then you can start carrying the paper yourself. Some brokers offer quick pay for a discount rate. Some brokers charge a fairly hefty rate for quick pay. I use a factor for some loads. Some people regularly factor all of their loads. Rates can vary. I prefer using a factor that doesn't require me to factor a certain amount of receivables per month. Some want you to pay a minimum charge regardless of the amount of receivables you send them. The factor I use is non-recourse, will allow me to only send those invoices I choose and will have money in my bank account within 2 business days from the time I deliver the load and send them the bills. I don't factor all of my loads, only certain ones. Some of the bigger brokers, such as CH Robinson and Landstar offer a quick pay for about 1 1/2%. You will have you money within about 2 business days with either of them. I have known of some small carriers who only use CH Robinson. Some rates are cheap, others are pretty decent. All you need do is find a few brokers who have decent paying freight who pay their bills. Get yourself set up with a factor and you won't have to worry about getting your money. If the factor won't take the load, you don't need their business, anyway. Factors don't like to lose money. They will only take business they are likely to collect.

[merrick4]

Thanks GMAN, I will check out RTS. I have been using CH Robinson's quick pay and it is well worth it. Every load that I haven't pulled for CH Robinson is still waiting on being paid. Every load I've pulled for CH Robinson has been paid within 48 hours at 1 1/2 percent fee. With the way my mind works, I can't just hand an envelope to some guy/gal working at a truck stop and ask him/her to put it with outgoing mail. I can't rest unless I see it going into a mailbox.

Your post on factoring on the other thread about the services they provide made a lot of sense. I'm not running tight either, all my fuel goes on an Amex that is currently under a 12 month 0% promotion so I only need to pay the minimum balance though I don't do that.

[GMAN]

If you set up with a factor, you can probably get their credit service free. If I am unfamiliar with a new broker, I can call my factor and they will tell me if they are factorable or not. I was thinking about doing business with a Canadian broker a few weeks ago. After talking with the factor, I decided to not do business with them. The factor said they are taking 55 days to pay. I decided to pass on their business and find another load. There are credit services attached to Internettruckstop and getloaded. Schneider also has a quick pay attached to their brokerage business, I believe. They mostly have van freight, but may have some reefer loads. JB Hunt is also brokering freight.

[rank]

One thing, I had a decent run the other day and the guy I'm working with said that with my experience I'd never get those rates on my own.

it's hard to tell what he meant by that.

Some brokers do require some experience...Landstar for example requires 2 years, so it that load was for LS, then maybe he was correct in what he said.
It's possible that he was saying you were a poor negotiator.
It's also possible that he was blowing smoke.

Just book a load for yourself and tell him you wanted the experience of doing it. Reefer can be tough though from what I understand....lots of waiting and rejected loads.

I woudl be scared to death of reefer. I don't have any expereince with that.

[GMAN]

I don't recall Landstar or any other broker with whom I have dealt require any specific level of experience from a carrier. But then, it has been a while since I set up with them and I had experience. I just don't remember it coming up in the agreement or conversation. I think he was talking about merrick's negotiating skills, rank. Like you said, it is difficult to know without asking him. He may just be trying to protect his income from inexperience independents.

[merrick4]

Allow me to clarify. I got a load out of Miami on a Friday. On Tuesday I emptied out and got the load out of Oklahoma to Wis. That was the one where I was paid $1.00 per mile. Then he booked me through to the following Tuesday. So from Tuesday to the following Tuesday I ended up with revenue of $5400 on about 3400 miles. He made the comment that someone as green as I would not be generating that kind of revenue on my own fresh out of the box.

Of course it should have been from Friday to Friday as if we start moving days around well it changes things. Even from Friday to Friday I pulled in over $5,000.

Also it has been commented by even the broker that this guy I'm with (with me included) gets good rates. For example where we will get in off season $1.50 another will get $1.00. Well that's all and good but they forget that there exists a simple word: "NO". I don't have to take something for a dollar. Even though it did work out for me last week, I still regret doing that. It can't always be about money. I don't know, this is a cut throat business. I tell you Steve makes it look easy that's for sure. Maybe it's my perspective.


Rank, reefer doesn't seem to be so bad. I went OTR with a reefer company so it's all I know. There is a big green light on the side of the trailer so you know if it stops working. On top of that all you got to do is stick a thermometer in the back door and double check that too. As for rejected loads, well I pulp the stuff going on the truck so so far so good.

On top of that I have a brand new trailer and reefer unit so I'm hoping breakdowns will be kept to a minimum.

I tell you Steve makes it look easy that's for sure. Maybe it's my perspective.

I don't know, I'm not doing anything special. My minimum is $1.50 per mile. Like I've said before. My tact is to stock up, fuel up and be ready to move NOW. I post my truck and wait for the phone to ring and it's usually around 12 or 1pm and they need the truck to move immediately.

Every once in a while I see a place I would like to go and make the call. It takes me 2 or 3 calls and I usually get a load.

Sounds like you have a decent week. $5,400 for 3,400 miles is about what I do on long runs.

[merrick4]

So they send me the next load. I am emptying in San Antonio and need to deadhead to Dallas then head to Naples for a whopping $1800 which came to total of $1.12. I almost freaked. Couldn't get anyone on the phone so I called CH Robinson and spoke to the broker. I asked him does he think I'm stupid? He starts stammering and saying that's what this load usually pays and he just assumed that's that what it is as the regular broker is on vacation. Of all the things to assume and he says he sees something about $2100 and he'll give me that.

Now the point of all of this isn't me or my situation. It really isn't. I'm just trying to understand this stuff. So eventually I get a hold of my friend and he says $1800 is wrong it should have been the $2100. When I got into this he told me he was averaging on the hub $1.70 and now he tells me rates are bad and he's only at about $1.30 himself. Again this is not about me or my situation. But a couple things stand out to me.

First I almost believe him that he's not making money. I've sat at his desk and have been logged into his bank accounts (I was helping him with something) and he's living off his day job. I've heard him say he doesn't haul cheap freight, well apparently he does. I'll say it again, this is not about him nor me, but a lot of us hear all these numbers coming into this. I am very precise about getting to the truth in things and I wanted to see for myself.

Also the comment that the broker made about this load pays x amount. I assume it is their regular customer and I guess they have it all figured out. You know they probably know want we are going to make before we do.

I have no problem saying no to these loads, but I am afraid that people say one thing and do another. I never ever would have bought the trailer if I knew that these were the rates I would be looking at. The truck purchase I don't regret for a minute.

I am going to find a good factor with non-recourse and will attempt to do this on my own. I will not burn the bridge with this guy but as Doghouse said build my own bridge. Maybe not even factor but I will look into the credit check agency GMAN mentioned.

You know just to edit to add that I think people really need to question their motives of why we get into this. He made the comment tonight that people don't get into this for the money, most get into it as they were brought up in it. He said they make their money when they sell. Me personally I never liked cars nor trucks. I love to drive, always have but the mechanics of these things I could care less. I like even being out here, even love it really. This is not work to me. I will sit in traffic without a care. I can not have a regular job where I look at the same people or the same places every day. I've never done that.

[rank]

I don't knor reefer and I don't know those lanes, but my opinion is that someone is taking advantage of you.

I suppose whether or not you're being played is not the issue. Fact of the matter is $1.12 isn't enough and you have a business to protect. Blame rates, blame the shipper or whatever. He's being paid to deliver good rates and he is not doing it. One thing is for sure. You are better off with an open trailer and booking your own loads.

If you're conmfortable with reefer stick with it, but if you trade the reefer on a flat, can you pocket some money?

[/img]

[no_worries]

Merrick, as you're finding out, reefer is a whole 'nother beast from any other freight and the reason is seasonality. As goes the growing season, so go the rates. You live in a prime example. In March you can look on the load board and see 2000 reefer loads posted with many paying $2-$4/mile. I looked the other day...15 loads and we won't even talk about the rates. It'd be nice to be able to say, "I just won't haul produce, I'll focus on other reefer stuff." Unfortunately the trucks follow the seasons and prices move accordingly...for everything, even dry vans. Most guys work on the philosophy of "get to the good area as fast as possible." This means as long as they can put something in the trailer they'll take it regardless of the rate. They figure they'll make up for it on the gravy runs and their average will work out. It sounds to me like this guy you're running with operates, at least partially, this way. He points to your revenue rather than your average when indicating how you're doing.

One thing I will say, he's keeping you running. I would bet that you won't get those kind of miles finding you're own loads. Whether your net increases or decreases will, of course, be a function of how much you raise your average in relation to the drop in miles. At $1.38 and those miles, I think you're still doing better than you would leased to one of the big companies.

The important thing is that you put this time to good use. Observe the rates you are getting and what freight looks like. Make sure you're doing everthing that you ARE doing in as efficient a manner as possible. That way, if and when you do things on you're own, you'll be able to focus on the new stuff. Reefer is tough right now. Especially if you're running entirely off the boards and I don't think it's going to get better anytime soon. I think the estimates you've gotten here for the kind of rates you can expect are not very reflective of what the market is. There are a lot of trucks out there running for garbage.

What would happen if you told the dispatcher that you don't want to take anything below, say, $1.40? You might want to try something like that and see what happens. If you find yourself sitting more than you'd like, you can always adjust, but at least that way you exercise a little control without having to do anymore work.

[Doghouse]

DISCLAIMER(the views and opinions in this post are theoretically base and not shared by the members, managment or staff at CAD)

Good plan Merrick,
In all my extensive years on the road as an OO (I have not even done one trip yet) I have found that its all in the research.
I looked at problems other drivers were having and adjusted my business plan to accommodate:
1.Low paying freight= setting up the business with enough $$ to be able to sit for a day or more and wait for a good paying load (less miles more$$).
2.Set up the truck to be able to sit comfortably and tell the cheap freight to go find another driver= a truck with full kitchen/bathroom, and APU for hanging out along with Internet access so I can post here all the time.
3.On board weight scales so I don't have to screw with over weight issues.
4.48'/96" flatbed, the only better size is a 102" wide, so I can fit most freight on this trailer.
5. ITS and GL load boards, practice for a few months to get used to how the sites operate.
6.A factoring company that has no minimum per month, and a limit on how much they take.
All this and more to make it a theoretically successful OO operation. Now will all of this work,....it should :wink: .
But the most important thing in my opinion is the ability to sit and wait for good paying load.
I have always been a take it or leave it businessman. (when selling the last house I was told that the closets were too small and they took $12,000 off their offer. I told them that all the discounts in the world won't get them more closet space,..to take their offer an find a different house) 2 days later, I received an offer at the price I had and with no cheapo crap.
I think if you stand your ground Merrick, you will be able to get into that frame of mind,....its easy,....like Gman always says,...set your rate and that's that. You may sit for a day or two, but its better than running for fuel money. If I was on a 1800 mile trip for $1.00 a mile due to anothe persons negotiating skill,....I would not be in a good mood.
I'm like you Merrick, I love to be out there, I don't mind traffic, and all the things that go with OTR. Eventually,...sometimes the traffic might get to me, especially if I'm running late, but if the trip is planned out correctly,...this situation should not happen that often.

[GMAN]

A dispatch service is just that.....a service for which you are paying a fee. If the service is not performing as expected, then you can either find another service which will do what is needed or begin doing that part of the business yourself and keeping the fee you are currently paying the dispatch service. If it were me, I would establish a minimum haul rate. Let your dispatcher know you will not accept anything less than that rate. If the service cannot comply then he is history. I think you can post your truck on a couple of load boards and do as well or better than this guy is doing for you. All you need to is handle the paperwork. It isn't that big of a deal to do the paperwork to get set up with various brokers. I think a dispatch service can be helpful, but they would need to do at least as good a job as I can do myself for me to be willing to pay them.

[rank]

In all my extensive years on the road as an OO (I have not even done one trip yet) I have found that its all in the research.

I thought you were a carrier?

[merrick4]

Yes GMAN but this is why I kept saying this is not about me. So I get rid of the dispatch service and do this on my own, but I am truly nervous that this is the industry. Every now and then you will see a post, well I think it was the other day and midnight runner or flyer I forget who was saying that they might have to leave the industry due to rates. I just don't know what to believe anymore.

All I can say is you always see people wanting to become O/O and the focus is on getting the truck. If you have good credit and a bit of money getting the truck was the easiest thing to do. Yes people should run with a company but how someone is going to learn freight lanes and prices before buying a truck I do not know. I should have stuck with my original plan which was to get the truck and then sign on with CRST Malone and learned flatbed. And if you don't have good credit well then what you say is true, that people need to fix that first.

Rank, I don't know about trading this trailer in for a flatbed but if anyone has some suggestions on that I'm all ears. Like I said, I'm glad I bought this truck though.

no_worries, well you haul reefer so you words carry a lot of weight. Actually $1.38 is the lowest figure. It really is more. I mean I am always early so 10 miles down the road to the truck stop adds up. Also once I missed my appt with Publix due to being help up by previous place (I did charge and get detention) so that was 30 miles or so to go home and eat and shower though I did stay with the load all night. So that and 30 miles back to Publix adds up so my average is a bit higher.

Yes I am being kept busy and as for not hauling below a minimum rate, well I am well aware that these people are doing stuff many years but for instance, I would have just deadheaded out of Lakeland to a better lane. It was you in fact that pointed out the costs of deadheading an empty truck. I am getting decent fuel mileage so for a cost of a couple of hundred I could have put myself in a better lane. When I mentioned that to them they said that is reaching for brass something or another.

The thing that gets me most is they say things like, "well there is no freight coming out of Texas" well hello! you sent me to Texas. And you are right, he points to revenue. They always start the measurement revenue from the last good paying load. Well what about the crap before that?

But I stress again this is not about me or how much money I make or don't make. I think a lot of people get into this without realistic expectations, including myself. I see a guy that had 10 nice trucks. Kennworth and Pete. Beautiful looking and that means a lot coming from me as I don't really care about this stuff. So what's a guy to think, man he has all these trucks he must be making money.

And I must stress really last month I probably did ok. $17,500 gross minus $6000 and change for fuel. Truck payment of $1600 insurance already paid but it comes out to about $1200 a month $600 for his fee. $1000 on repairs and maintenance which was over what I should have paid. That leaves about $7000. Even depreciation which I'm not sure how to calculate yet well lets just say I ended up with $5000. With a couple of years of experience I could make that as a company driver. I never would be making that as a compnay driver with so limited experience.

I put this stuff out cause as I said people wanting to get into this has no way of seeing this stuff until you do it. You will not learn the numbers working as a company driver.

Now one final thing, for the $5000 grand or so yes I could have leased on to a company. But, and I am going to be very honest, if I am tired then I will stop and just go when I am ready. I don't worry about someone tracking my logs or me. I don't have a Qualcomm obviously. If I want to fix the log, then I go and do it. I don't drive if I'm very tired and I don't keep myself up with coffee. So going to lease on to a company for me anyway is not the best answer.

I would like to make some money not to spend but to save. I have no intentions of spending my life in this truck.

Doghouse or GMAN any good factor names you'd like to toss out there?

[no_worries]

Don't get me wrong, I would have dead-headed in your situations. You have illustrated perfectly the two schools of thought when it comes to making money as an O/O. You express a desire to earn more per mile because it's frustrating to feel like you're not being efficient. At the same time, your gross take-home at the end of the month is something you can live with. This argument will exist as long as there's trucking. It really comes down to a personal preference and what your own personal philosophy is. In the end, both approaches are probably not too different. Even if I only net the same as a guy who doesn't mind taking cheap loads to reposition, I feel better at the end of the month. I've hauled fewer loads and I feel like I've maintained the standard I've set for myself. When it's no longer possible to maintain that standard, i.e., I'm priced out of the market, it's time to move on to something else.

I agree with the others. If you can handle the possibility of bringing home less money for a few weeks, give it a try on your own. If you're not happy with the results, you've still got the holiday season coming up (assuming we have one this year) to recover. I'm sure if you explain to the guy you're working with that you just want to educate yourself a little more, it won't be an issue and you'd be able to hook up with him again if you choose.