Can I spell C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y! (Diesel less then regular)

[pepe4158]

Ok....some time ago on old ART Bells show, coast-to-coast, Willie Nelson was intervied an said he couldnt wait for diesel prices to rise and his Bio-diesel would be cheaper then the oil baised deiesel. Well here in the communist peoples republic of California, regular unleaded is about $3.15, and super unleaded is $3.40........hmmmm that means diesel should be more then Willie's Bio-diesel, but diesel here sells for $3.02.....go fiqure!

[Rev.Vassago]

<-------makes a note to avoid California, and their $3.02 fuel.

[mike3fan]

<-------makes a note to avoid California, and their $3.02 fuel.

+1

[GMAN]

I haven't been to California in some months. With fuel being up and rates down, it isn't worth the effort to visit. I love running the left coast, but prefer making a profit. I can make more money running the East side of the country and be home every weekend, if not more often.

[pepe4158]

Yeah....S.C. was paying a little over $2.50 and so was Oklahoma City.
We lead the nation here at just over $3.00......but my really point was ...man...thjis REALLY is artificial prices and gauging.
You know I never went in for this market secret control societies, but know I BELIEVE it just from common-sense.
If super gas here is $3.40 a gallon (and it is!) diesel SHOULD be $3.40 a gallon.......NO where but here is this contratiction happening, and only because we have reached the point where if true market forces were at work, Willie's Bio-Deiesel SHOULD be cheaper. But, something sinister is at work keeping the prices fixed lower.

[Orangetxguy]

Believe it or not..there was a time when diesel was a WASTE product associated with the manufacture of gasoline, and the oil companies did not figure diesel sales into their profit margin.



:moose:



Can you remember when?

[no_worries]

There's no price conspiracy...welcome to the market. This happens every year around this time as the local refineries make the shift from Winter to Summer blend gasoline, it's just a little more pronounced this year. Oh, and diesel costing more than gasoline has only been the norm for the last few years.

[yoopr]

We've been gouged on Diesel forever. Diesel has less refineing to it than Gas.
Look at your State Taxes-That's where your price is.

[GMAN]

Taxes are a part of the reason for higher prices, but not all. There is a HUGE greed factor. If you look back, prices made a big spike when the large oil companies merged. There is little competition among the major oil companies. There are two things which will result in lower prices, both having to do with competition. Break the oil companies up into many smaller pieces and have alternative fuels. Both would result in more competition and lower prices. One other factor would be to allow more drilling in the Gulf and Alaska. Environmental pressures have resulted in making it difficult to build refineries and drill domestically. Most states have a sales tax in addition to other taxes tied to the price of a gallon of fuel. It is usually a percentage. As such, the higher the price of fuel the more money the states make. There is no incentive for them to keep prices down. In fact, I prefer that they nor the Federal government get involved in fixing prices. Right now, we have a fixed pricing situation due to the lack of credible competition. About 30 or so years ago, you could buy diesel for about $0.15/gallon. Since that time, we have seen a dramatic increase in taxes on fuels, mergers of major oil companies and restrictions against domestic expansion and production.

[Ian Williams]

There's no price conspiracy...welcome to the market. This happens every year around this time as the local refineries make the shift from Winter to Summer blend gasoline, it's just a little more pronounced this year. Oh, and diesel costing more than gasoline has only been the norm for the last few years.

Refiner Consolidation and their increasing profit margins are only part of the picture.

There are other factors in the world ecomony that have pushed diesel up.

Chinas explosive growth caused electricity shortages and demand for diesel gensets to rise. One of the many hidden costs of all the cheap, low value labor intensive stuff we buy at Wal-mart.

Here in the US diesels are ~3% of new light duty vehicles (4 wheeler). In Europe is now something like 50% and rising. When you pay $5-7/gallon fuel economy becomes a lot bigger selling point.

Air Travel is up from it post 9/11 doldrums in the US. Worldwide air travel is getting common and cheap and the rest of the world gets "southwest" style no frills service. Boeing and Airbus are sold out for 3-4 years right now IIRC.

Kerosene and Jet Fuel come from the same portion of the barrel as diesel.

All of these factors have applied pressure to diesel prices.

If diesel ever goes truly crazy I'll just add a second heated tank and burn Soybean oil in my Liberty CRD. Its ~2.50 gal right now at Sam's Club.

[Dejanh]

I run L.A. to midwest all the time and have been for 2 years straight and i am yet to fuel in California...

[yoopr]

There's no price conspiracy...welcome to the market. This happens every year around this time as the local refineries make the shift from Winter to Summer blend gasoline, it's just a little more pronounced this year. Oh, and diesel costing more than gasoline has only been the norm for the last few years.

Refiner Consolidation and their increasing profit margins are only part of the picture.

There are other factors in the world ecomony that have pushed diesel up.

Chinas explosive growth caused electricity shortages and demand for diesel gensets to rise. One of the many hidden costs of all the cheap, low value labor intensive stuff we buy at Wal-mart.

Here in the US diesels are ~3% of new light duty vehicles (4 wheeler). In Europe is now something like 50% and rising. When you pay $5-7/gallon fuel economy becomes a lot bigger selling point.

Air Travel is up from it post 9/11 doldrums in the US. Worldwide air travel is getting common and cheap and the rest of the world gets "southwest" style no frills service. Boeing and Airbus are sold out for 3-4 years right now IIRC.

Kerosene and Jet Fuel come from the same portion of the barrel as diesel.

All of these factors have applied pressure to diesel prices.

If diesel ever goes truly crazy I'll just add a second heated tank and burn Soybean oil in my Liberty CRD. Its ~2.50 gal right now at Sam's Club.

and we haven't had a New refinery built since the 70's(?) because of Enviros and their NIMBY(Not in my back yard) crap.

[Mack2]

Was $2.70 here in NC.

[no_worries]

Refiner Consolidation and their increasing profit margins are only part of the picture.

There are other factors in the world ecomony that have pushed diesel up.

I was only speaking to the original poster's comment about the recent disparity in CA between gasoline and diesel. The reason gasoline is so much higher than diesel right now in CA is almost entirely due to our seasonal change in gasoline blends.

[pepe4158]

Refiner Consolidation and their increasing profit margins are only part of the picture.

There are other factors in the world ecomony that have pushed diesel up.

I was only speaking to the original poster's comment about the recent disparity in CA between gasoline and diesel. The reason gasoline is so much higher than diesel right now in CA is almost entirely due to our seasonal change in gasoline blends.

Hmmm does that really account for it? Not trying to challenge you here, just dont understand that huge a desperity and seems kind of convient to explain when the fact of the matter is it should put the price of diesel over an alternative feuls operating expense.

[BigDiesel]

$2.91 at the Petro Wheeler Ridge.

Long time lurker. this is a cool forum with lots of info. 8)

[jnk2001]

Gman hit the nail on the head. It's all about merger and profit with no competition. last summer, oil companies were making record profits in the BILLIONS....of course, Bush never met a merger he didn't like...

[no_worries]

Pepe, I don't know how long you've lived in CA but this time of year our gasoline prices always take off. Because of the boutique fuel we use, it's only refined in-state. The switch-over from winter to summer blend often coincides with scheduled maintenance. This year there also happened to be a convergence of other factors; oil jumped due to the Iran deal and demand for distillates has been relatively soft, at least until the last week.

The price of diesel has behaved just as it has for the past few years due to the factors GMAN mentioned. If the price of gasoline hadn't spiked you'd have thought nothing of it. However, gasoline has spiked tremendously here in the past 4 weeks for the reasons I mentioned. That's the reason for the disparity.

As far as why regular diesel isn't cheaper than biodiesel...that's easy. The largest blend you'll likely find is B20. That means that it's still 80% regular diesel. And most of the stuff for sale right now at TS's is only B5. Given the state of the biodiesel industry today, it's going to be a long time before you'll be able to buy biodiesel for significantly cheaper than regular.