[Graymist]

O/O for tanker vs o/o for LTL ( local and / or regional LTL )....which is preferable, from the point of view of getting good miles, making more money, and having to put up with less delays / layovers / holdups ?

[Paul McGraw]

Originally Posted by Graymist

O/O for tanker vs o/o for LTL ( local and / or regional LTL )....which is preferable, from the point of view of getting good miles, making more money, and having to put up with less delays / layovers / holdups ?

I am curious to hear more about tanker myself, as I know it pays well. I drive LTL for Forward Air. They pay .93 + FSC which is .22 right now. Forward Air passes along a GREAT fuel purchase discount, about .05 less than the cash price, up to as much as .12 at some truck stops. The freight is light, usually 10,000 to 20,000 and there is ZERO deadhead. All miles are paid on practical miles loaded and empty. All runs are terminal to terminal. These are the good things.

Bad things: it is all night driving and alll expedited. It is really hard for someone my age, 53, to enjoy 10 or 11 hours of continuous driving with no substantial breaks. There is usually enough slack in the schedule for a fuel stop and one or two brief bathroom stops and that is all. Sometimes if the load is ready early you might have a chance to take a one hour meal break, but usually not.

Forward Air is very good about keeping their drivers moving as much as they want. It has been a little slow in the past four weeks, Christmas into January, but even now most drivers are getting loads most every night. They will sometimes keep me at home an extra day if not enough loads. They have never had me layover for a full 24 hours away from my home terminal. They will bring me back empty, and pay the miles, rather than leave me away from home for a layover.

Despite all of the good things, it is hard to make a profit at the FA rate. I drive about 10,000 miles per month and make only about $3,000 per month after all expenses, truck payment, taxes, etc. etc. Teams do much better. Some drivers that get on a dedicated run do better.

I hope we hear from more LTL O/O's and some tanker O/O's.

Maestro

[GMAN]

You are comparing apples to oranges. I have done well with LTL loads, but it requires additional planning and thought, if you are dispatching yourself. As an owner operator you should be running for a much higher rate than Paul notes in his post. You didn't mention whether you meant LTL in a van or flat bed. Rates are generally better with a flat. Many tankers drivers will load and unload themselves, so any delays are controlled by them rather than the shipper or receiver. Don't confuse miles and income. As you can see by Paul's post, just running miles is not necessarily translated into income or profit. Not to pick on him, but he would probably do better driving a company truck rather than running for $0.93/mile. Whether you pull a tanker or box, you need to run for a high enough rate where you can make a decent profit.

[Paul McGraw]

Originally Posted by GMAN

You are comparing apples to oranges. I have done well with LTL loads, but it requires additional planning and thought, if you are dispatching yourself. As an owner operator you should be running for a much higher rate than Paul notes in his post. You didn't mention whether you meant LTL in a van or flat bed. Rates are generally better with a flat. Many tankers drivers will load and unload themselves, so any delays are controlled by them rather than the shipper or receiver. Don't confuse miles and income. As you can see by Paul's post, just running miles is not necessarily translated into income or profit. Not to pick on him, but he would probably do better driving a company truck rather than running for $0.93/mile. Whether you pull a tanker or box, you need to run for a high enough rate where you can make a decent profit.

GMAN please feel free to pick on me, criticize, or denigrate :sad: as much as you want . . . as long as you have a workable solution or improvement to offer.

Yes, I would make more as a company driver if I was willing to stay away from home until given "permission" to go home and I could sell my current truck without too much of a loss from book value. :roll: Or I can continue to be an O/O while looking for a better opportunity, which is what I am doing. By the way, as piss-poor as my profit is at Forward Air, it is much better than I was doing as an Independent with my own Authority, MC 530779. Percentage deals running out of Atlanta may not be the answer as rates out of here are allmost as bad as Florida but incoming rates are only average at best.

Any idea where I can lease on for a better over-all package than Forward Air offers? I am willing to pull van, tanker, reefer, bulk, or dump, but no flatbed tarping. Thanks

[GMAN]

CRST Malone, Landstar, Mercer, Bennett and Jones all pay percentage and your rates should be higher than what Forward Air offers. I understand your situation, and we sometimes have to do things we don't necessarily like in order to survive. However, you have a large CRST Malone agent in Atlanta, Landstar has several good size agents around Atlanta as do the others. I was leased to CRST Malone and had 2 trucks with them. I averaged about $1.66 on one and I believe $1.81 with the other. I have also been leased to Landstar, but don't recall the average rate I ran. It was a number of years ago. The figures I noted were to the truck and not gross dollars. By the way, I have a friend of mine who is leased to CRST Malone and is averaging about $2/mile, to the truck, and is home every weekend. CRST Malone had some dedicated freight out of Birmingham at one time where you could get home more frequently. Those runs were pulling a van. Most of their freight is flat bed. If you are interested pm me and I will be glad to get the number of the agent who was handling those runs. They will pay the truck less than the figure I noted when I was there, but should be higher than what you are doing with Forward Air. In any case, you don't have to find a load in Atlanta to make money. There is freight coming out of about 100 miles of Atlanta. You can always grab a load that goes through the house and spend the weekend at home. For instance, you can pick up in Birmingham on Friday going to North Carolina. You get the load on the truck, spend the weekend and leave Sunday evening for a early Monday delivers. That will usually give you a good week. You can make a living and be home on the weekends, but it will be difficult to make as much as if you were on the road. But, you can make good money if you get hooked up with the right company.

I don't mean to pick on you, I am only pointing out that there are options out there which will pay more for doing the same work. I am sorry things didn't work out running your own authority, Paul. It can be a tough business. When you work for the percentage carriers, some have dispatchers, others do not. It is basically up to you to find the better paying loads. CRST has a dispatcher, but you can still get your own loads. Landstar doesn't have dispatchers so it is similar to running your own authority except that they do your fuel taxes and keep up with the paperwork.

I prefer running my own authority. My average is higher than when I was leased to a carrler. It isn't for everyone. I know of some who have had trucks under their authority who have gone back to leasing to a carrier so that they don't have to deal with all the paperwork and drivers. Good luck to you.

[Graymist]

You're quite the sagacious one, and I genuflect before your venerable wisdom and experience ( I really mean that ).

Since I'm quite the newbie in the US melieu ( with a year's Class 1 experience in Canada ), I'm trying to do as much research as possible about keeping myself gainfully employed as a responsible trucker, exploring potential options over the next 2-3 years, so that I can start preparing myself from the very outset.....which is why you find me on this O/O forum.

Could you please give me some information about the potential in the Pittsburgh (PA) / New Castle (PA) / Youngstown (OH) region, in terms of decent companies, major transit points, types of loads that are lucrative, lucrative shipment routes ? Also, for someone in my position, do you think it would make more sense financially to run cross-border vis-a-vis US regional runs, assuming hometime being the same ? In what ways can I leverage the fact of being a Canadian driver / citizen, with a US work permit ?

I thank you in for being such a level-headed and knowledgeable resource for all truckers on this message board.

[Paul McGraw]

Originally Posted by GMAN

CRST Malone, Landstar, Mercer, Bennett and Jones

Gee, these seem like flatbed companies, except LS does vans. In my above post I said Van, Reefer, Tanker, or Bulk but NO FLATBED.

Percentage deals are not always the answer depending on the deal and where a person is located. For example, if you pull Van and you live in Florida, you will get incoming loads at perhaps $1.90 and outgoing loads at perhaps .90. Average 1.40. Even at 80% the driver is only getting $1.12. If deadhead is 15%, that cuts the actual rate for all miles to .95 per mile on the round trip into and out of Florida. Not many people pay as much as 80%. Sadly the Atlanta area is getting to be a lot like Florida.

You also have to consider the cost of fuel and insurance. If the carrier can get you cheaper fuel and cheaper insurance that improves the bottom line, and may be worth more than a few cents more in gross revenue.

I have spent a lot of time researching Landstar and it just doesn't seem to be a good alternative in my opinion. I have talked repeatedly with their recruiters and with several of their larger agents around Atlanta. They just don't have competitive rates. I guess that is why the number of Landstar O/O's keeps shrinking year after year.

I talked to a Mercer recruiter in December just for kicks after you previously recommended them. He advised me to stay with Forward Air, as Mercer didn't have enough freight in my area to keep their existing people rolling. He also told me that on a total mile average, I would do no better than the $1.15 per mile I am getting at Forward Air. Those unpaid deadhead miles really hurt.

I am glad that you are having success as an independent flatbed & Conestoga operator.

[Dejanh]

What Gman was talking about is that if you can get hoked up with the right agent you can make money but problem with that is that the number of those agents is getting smaller and smaller month in and month out. I understand them giving the best loads to the guys who have been with them the for years but dont expect that to happen to you when you first come in, expecially at this time...

Landstar is a good place, so i've heard at least but i've not only been browsing thru their load boards and talked to their recruiters but i ran their loads alot out of Chicago/N.E and Indy for quite a while and what i've seen does not impress me any more than what C.H. Robinson has to offer..
Funny thing is that anyone you talk to thats leased there is getting rich beyond their wildest dreams and running whatever they want wherever they want....i found it very hard to believe that a BCO running the routes that they want to run and hauling dry van can make 1.50 to the truck :roll: in and out...i have a pleasure to see all confirmations not only from the peeps am with but also from 3 other places that i have friends at and conclusion is one and that is that rates have fallen a bunch in every corner of this country in the past couple of years.
And they say that you need at least 6 months to get going with Landstar and with that i have problem with. if you need half a year to get going who will take care of your familly for the time being because Landstar will sure not..

Also..
People need to separate special equipment haul with dry van because they will pay more, dont post your earnings as if everyone hauls the same stuff, running your own authority and driving a flat will pay more that dry van for example..

[GMAN]

To start with I don't pull a Conestoga. I pull a step deck and side kit. CRST Malone primarily has flats, but do pull some vans out of the main office in Birmingham. That is what I was refering to in my previous post. I misunderstood your post in that I thought you wanted to basically pull anything. There are other companies who pull vans who pay percentage. The rates I gave you that I made while leased to CRST Malone were to the truck, not gross rates, and included all miles, including deadhead. My deadhead while with them was slightly less than 10%. My average running my own authority is higher than that, as it should. One reason I did as well is because I was proactive with them and found most of my own loads. They have cheap loads like Landstar and most of the others, but you don't have to haul them. I didn't. That is why they tell new owner operators that it takes about 5-6 months to learn their system. If a load only pays $0.90/mile it doesn't go on my truck. I refuse to haul anything that I cannot make a profit. I can't make a profit hauling for $0.90/mile. And I don't go to Florida for $1.90 either. The last time I went to Florida I did so for either $2.25 or $2.50/mile, but that was to the panhandle. If I go in to South Florida they will pay me at least $3/mile or I don't go. I know I will most likely have to deadhead out, so that is my rate. There are plenty of people who will go for less. I choose not to participate in keeping rates low. It takes work to find the better paying loads. I am willing to do the work because I won't haul cheap freight. I would rather sit at home if I can't make a profit by moving. And I always have fuel money.

As far as getting fuel and tire discounts is concerned. Even if you get a $0.20 discount at the pump (which is doubtful), it may or may not mean that much to you. Some fuel stops have higher cost fuel and you might do as well or better without the discounts and go to Flying J. By the way, these carriers don't pass along all of the discounts they get from TA or any of the truck stops. They keep part of the discount for themselves. If you get 5 mpg then it only reduces your cost of operations by $0.04/mile. The discounts can help, but won't do as much to your bottom line as hauling for good rates. I can now buy tires for less than I could using CRST or Landstar's national discount. I can buy a drive or steer tire for about $253 with the deep tread. If I were not able to do that and paid retail, I would spend about $100 or more per tire. And again, the carriers don't give you the entire discount on tires. It took some work on my part to be able to find the discounts, but if I can do it you are anyone else can, as well.

I am not trying to sell CRST Malone, Landstar or any other carrier. They all have their advantages as well as disadvantages. We all have to find what is right for us. If you are comfortable working for mileage the good for you. In my case, if I can't make more owning and operating my own truck, then I will either drive a company truck for someone or do something else entirely.

Many of the rates coming out of Atlanta are cheap, but there are also some decent rates coming out. I am only about 100 miles away from you, but if it means taking a cheap load or deadheading 100 miles to get a good paying load, that is what I will do. I prefer not having to deadhead, but rather than take a cheap load, I will deadhead. I can usually find something within 100-150 miles from home that pays decent. I have a load that I will pickup between now and Monday that will pay me about $2.50/mile. The shipper is much closer than 100 miles from me. I just hauled a load for the same shipper which paid $3/mile. And in case you are wondering, these were not across town loads. There are decent paying loads, but they don't always come to you. Sometimes you have to beat the pavement to find them. These loads come direct from a shipper. I have a minimum amount of money I need to move the truck. If a shipper or broker is unable or unwilling to meet my minimum haul rate, then he can either let the load sit or find someone who is willing to haul it for the rate he wants to pay. With things being slow for the last several months, I have been sitting more because some people have been willing to haul freight for cheap rates. I turned down a lot of loads paying less than $1.50/mile. One other thing, if the rates are too cheap in one area, I deadhead to an area that is better. I also try to stay out of the areas that I know only have cheap rates. Either that or I get a good enough rate going in that I can deadhead out.

I can understand your wanting to be home every weekend. It is sometimes difficult to do in this business if you are going to make a decent living.

[mike3fan]

I just started as an O/O leased onto DANA/SUTTLES pulling tankers,I cannot give you a definite answer on pay as of yet I have not received my first true check yet(hold back 2 weeks and all fuel out of 3rd :cry: )

I can tell you that there does seem to be plenty of product to move,since the first I have been running constant and only home for 12 hrs since leaving New Years day(my choice).

The delays are usually not due to the drivers but usually due to the type of product being unloaded,I unloaded in Detroit on Monday and it took 10.5 hrs to unload because the product was so thick,I am supposed to get detention pay after 2 hrs,as I said cannot confirm this yet as I am just starting.I also had a 8.5 unload on Wed night because I has to wait for the lab to analyze the product before unloading.

These were my only delays so far over 4 weeks,I have had about 4 preloaded trailers and usually either the receivers unload or are right there to help you hook up hoses and get started,also I have dropped 3 of my loads so you don't have to load and unload every load.

So far I really like it,driving a tanker is not an easy job the constant moving of product in the trailer is a real challenge sometimes,but it will definitely make you a better driver.

I did pull out of our terminal in Morrow Ga,last week and they seem to have plenty of work.

I have a running journal of my adventures here
http://www.truckersroad.com/fusionbb...php?tid/44711/