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Old 12-09-2006, 06:02 AM
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Default Icing/Gelling up

Does anyone here have any experience with this?

I've seen it a few times, just last week with my dads rig. Personally, I think most drivers have it wrong. The fuel doesn't gel, it's just that there's an assload of water in the system. The water collects somewhere, freezes, bango you're DONE. This is why the fuel filters are EMPTY when you pull them. Has anyone seen a fuel filter that has clogged?

I've never seen diesel "GEL" or even get thick. I've talked to a few drivers, and it's pretty clear they had a water problem.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:21 AM
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first off you have to be very consistent on draining your air tanks.
I used gas line anti-freeze for my lines and in the winter time Used a good anti-gel.
Up here they automatically go to Winter Mix with #1 & #2
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:56 AM
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Yeah, I'm from Winnipeg I know all about that.

What happened was my dad was down south, the dew point was +18 celsius. Rain/fog everywhere. Tons of moisture got into his tanks.

He crossed the border, fueled up at Morris, 500 some litres, then it got cold. He should've been fine. Problem was, there was so much moisture, it just froze right up. The fuel itself was fine.

I've been thinking about inventing a system that slowly puts air from the air system into the fuel tanks. That way it doesn't suck in air as you're using the fuel. You get 100% dry air. This will also help get rid of moisture that is already there. To me, this is the best system there is. Of course, getting fuel that has no water in it would help.
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Old 12-09-2006, 12:17 PM
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There are additives you can purchase that will breakdown the moisture and move it through your system. You can use some over the counter rubbing alcohol and it works just as well for a fraction of the cost. Some years ago, I was fueling up and my fuel started to gel. I poured some alcohol into the tank and it cleared up the problem. It will work on a frozen air line, too. You don't want to leave it in the air line because it will dry the rubber seals, but once it is defrosted you can blow the air lines and get it out. I always keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the truck in winter. 8)
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Old 12-09-2006, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN
There are additives you can purchase that will breakdown the moisture and move it through your system. You can use some over the counter rubbing alcohol and it works just as well for a fraction of the cost. Some years ago, I was fueling up and my fuel started to gel. I poured some alcohol into the tank and it cleared up the problem. It will work on a frozen air line, too. You don't want to leave it in the air line because it will dry the rubber seals, but once it is defrosted you can blow the air lines and get it out. I always keep a bottle of rubbing alcohol in the truck in winter. 8)
Remember rubbing alcohol doesn't freeze but it will form a slush that can clog a fuel line. and when it runs by metal fittings in very cold weather, this can sometimes be a problem. To those that don't believe that rubbing alcohol wont slush, mix some with a little water in a plastic bag and put in the freezer. I stopped using alcohol years ago.. The biggest problem place for alcohol is the air lines, to many places for it to just lay there and slush up. Just my 2 cents...
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:02 PM
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The problem with alcohol is you HAVE to add it while you're fueling up or it's completely useless.

Water is heavier then diesel, alcohol is lighter then diesel. Putting alcohol in your tanks while your freezing up in the middle of nowhere does NOTHING.

One cool idea I just heard of is having two 500W block heaters on cords. Drop those in the fuel tanks near the pickup tube.

GMAN... was the fuel actually getting thick or was there a blockage somewhere in the fuel system?
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:19 PM
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isopropyl is good in a pinch but it's bad for Lines.
A good anti-gel product in the winter will carry you through with no problems on top of Pre-mixed fuels which is automatic up here and up where allan lives.

Small bottle of Heat for the air lines goes a long way.
My truck had a fuel line heater also.
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh
The problem with alcohol is you HAVE to add it while you're fueling up or it's completely useless.

Water is heavier then diesel, alcohol is lighter then diesel. Putting alcohol in your tanks while your freezing up in the middle of nowhere does NOTHING.

One cool idea I just heard of is having two 500W block heaters on cords. Drop those in the fuel tanks near the pickup tube.

GMAN... was the fuel actually getting thick or was there a blockage somewhere in the fuel system?
It was getting thick and not wanting to run. I put it in while I was fueling. It stopped in fairly quickly. I also did that once in New York State. It was in the mountains and the temperature was so cold it would freeze most anything. It was the only thing I had to stop it from geling. I didn't know if it would work or not. I poured it in and kept on driving. I suppose it mixed as I drove. It stopped it after several miles, as I recall. I could not afford to get stranded, miles from any help, in that kind of weather. The most ideal thing is to have heaters for the tanks. Most of the time, you don't have to worry about geling if you buy fuel in the colder regions. It is the moisture that seems to cause the problem. I haven't had a problem with geling fuel in several years. If you run in the colder climates during winter, it is probably a good idea to put something in with the fuel every now and then to disperse the water. The way a guy explained it to me, the chemicals don't evaporate the water or moisture. It breaks it down into very small drops so it can pass through the fuel filter and burn up with the fuel.

As far as the air lines are concerned. If your air lines freeze on the trailer in winter, you can pour some alcohol in the glad hands and pump the brakes and use everything that has air until it frees. It is a good idea afterward to evacuate the system to get the alcohol and moisture out of the system. As yoopr stated, you need to evacuate the air lines frequently, especially during winter months.
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:58 PM
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One of the popular misconceptions I've heard time after time, is that if you let your fuel level get low, the water and crud will get picked up. Fuel level being low has nothing to do with it. Fuel is always picked up from the bottom of the tank, some even have a "well" in the bottom from which to "draw" from. You <u>want</u> to pickup from the bottom of the tank, so the water can be drawn through the primary fuel filter, gravity will cause it to remain there to be either drained off, or disposed of by a filter change. If that water remains in the bottom of the tank or suction line, it will freeze, and things get real quiet, real fast! That's probably what happened to your dad's truck.

Gelling is a different deal having to do with the "cloud" point of the fuel being used. That when the parafines (wax) in the fuel actually strart to clump together due to falling temps. It will actually "gel" together enough that the wax will start to clog the fuel filter, and things get quiet again. Normally you don't have to be to concerned about this until the temps get down into the teens with good quality No2 diesel. Much below that you can use No1, which is simply No2 that's been diluted with Kerosene to reduce it's cloud point. Another method is to use an anti-gel additive, such as howes. Most trucks are equipped with some sort of fuel heater, the purpose of which is to keep the temp of the fuel high enough above the cloud point for the fuel to pass through the fuel filter without clogging it.

I don't know about the other brands of anti-gel additives, but I've used Howes down to -20deg with no fuel heater (element burned out) with no problems useing a mix ratio of 1gl to treat 300gl.

Another thing, never ever, ever, spray water anywhere near the truck when the fuel tanks are open, as when fueling (dumbest thing I've ever seen, it's like committing suicide), a little alcohol is a good thing to help that water be carried through to the fuel filter, but Howes will do the same thing.

Hope you'all have a good, safe winter drive!

One other thing, buy only good quailty diesel from a place that sell lots of it. You'll probaly pay more, but one tow or service call on the side of the road ain't cheap either, besides, it's cold out there, and I like heat...
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:05 PM
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Theoretically, shouldn't the fuel-return system alleviate the gelling problem? Obviously it doesn't, but it seems like it should. I mean, if heated fuel is returning to the tanks, fuel gelling problems should be extinct. So, why do we still have this problem?? I know that every time I remove my fuel-tank caps, I see steam coming up out of the tank (technically, it's probably not "steam", but you know what I mean). I've been in Canada, Wisconsin, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan when it was extremely cold, and I didn't have a problem with my fuel gelling, simply because I believe that the returned fuel kept the fuel in my tanks warm. I'm probably wrong about this, but naivete is a wonderful thing.
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