Is USXPRESS experience looked down upon because of autoshift trans?

[EddieVHrules]

Do companies look at USX experience in a different light than others because they have auto shift transmissions where your not getting the experience in shifting that you usually need? Or do most companies not worry about it and/or just offer a refresher course in shifting?

Thanks in advance for any info.

[GMAN]

It isn't just USX. If most of your driving experience is with an autoshift, you could face problems if you plan to switch to a carrier that has straight shift transmissions. I don''t know of any carriers that offer training or a refresher on shifting. You will usually be expected to know how to shift if you hold a CDL.

[golfhobo]

I don't know about "companies," but as a DRIVER I certainly DO. If I owned a company, I certainly would. Might as well connect a GPS to an autoshift and a "remote controlled camera" and have grandma supplement her Soc Sec income by sitting in the driver's seat while knitting ME a scarf!

From what I've seen.... I'll bet on Grandma to "bump the dock" in less tries!

Automation... Resignation.... Wussification... Pussification...

The entire ECONOMY depends on truckers.... and we are seeing the REAL ones phased out (through CSA2010 and other measures) in favor of the "downsized" college graduate who can "integrate" with the equipment of the future, and "follow the rules."

[madaxeman]

My first job was with a company that used all autoshifts (not an automatic...rather a standard Eaton 10 speed which is computer controlled that uses a floor clutch). You could still upshift and downshift manually if you really wanted/needed to. I learned how to drive a manual at SAGE when I went to school. I accepted that job because within a year I was making 35cpm, they reimbursed me for school and I got 3 full days off for 9-10 days out (2 days off for 7-8 out). Seemed like a pretty good deal for new drivers....and it was. Anyway, I remembered how to drive a manual but had to become reacclimated to it. I worked there for 18 months until the economy tanked. Then, I was out of work for about 16 months looking for a new job. When I started the next job, I went out with a "trainer" for 2 weeks but had upshifting and downshifting down within a couple of hours. He slept in the back almost the whole time and collected my miles...(pretty typical). I told them ahead of time my situation (that I had 18 months experience and I learned how to drive a manual at school...but only drove with a company using autoshift transmissions). They said that was fine and they would work with me. At least, they knew ahead of time and it worked out fine...and I knew ahead of time what to expect, too. The rest of my experience since has been with a manual 10 speed. Best of luck!

[madaxeman]

I don't know about "companies," but as a DRIVER I certainly DO. If I owned a company, I certainly would. Might as well connect a GPS to an autoshift and a "remote controlled camera" and have grandma supplement her Soc Sec income by sitting in the driver's seat while knitting ME a scarf!

From what I've seen.... I'll bet on Grandma to "bump the dock" in less tries!

Automation... Resignation.... Wussification... Pussification...

The entire ECONOMY depends on truckers.... and we are seeing the REAL ones phased out (through CSA2010 and other measures) in favor of the "downsized" college graduate who can "integrate" with the equipment of the future, and "follow the rules."

That's a bit harsh! Try to help the guy out rather than castrate him. The main guts of the transmission is basically the same except it's controlled by a computer (rather than the driver physically moving a shifter and pushing in the clutch to change gears each time). If you understand how a transmission works (range, shift points, etc.), a monkey can shift a truck.

[mitchno1]

how many ****ups you have driving auto cars then get in manual car and stall at lights haha it happens,would be not nice in a 44toner

[golfhobo]

madaxeman said:

That's a bit harsh! Try to help the guy out rather than castrate him.

You're probably right. Look at the time and date of my post. I'd been on line 5 for several hours already... and Santa hadn't brought my "gift" yet. To be honest? I thought I was in the "what about this company" thread ... and I was WARNING someone away from that company... not castrating him for having sold out to them in the first place. My apologies.

The main guts of the transmission is basically the same except it's controlled by a computer...

I ain't no southern good ole boy mechanic... but, I'm pretty sure the guts of MOST transmissions are essentially "the same." And the very question here, is whether or not they should be "controlled" by a computer or a real Truck Driver.

(rather than the driver physically moving a shifter and pushing in the clutch to change gears each time).

Heaven forbid!

If you understand how a transmission works (range, shift points, etc.), a monkey can shift a truck.

I know that the "range" for a downshift on a hill that will allow me to maintain (or increase) speed will vary between an 8 spd, 10 spd, or 13 spd. And it will be based on horsepower, load weight and MY "timing." I also know that it can be affected by rev limiters and governors.

You might can train a monkey to shift a truck with ONE of those combinations (with enough time.) But, you won't train one to be able to adapt and shift any or all of them in a matter of minutes like a TRUCKER can!

And, if "I" was a company looking to hire a Truck Driver.... I'd hire one of ME before I'd hire a monkey... or a U.S. Express driver. [really, I mean ANY autoshift driver.]

Too harsh still? Sorry... it's the way I feel. And I believe it is the truth.

If you UNDERSTAND how the truth works...

[Mr. Ford95]

The main guts of the transmission is basically the same except it's controlled by a computer (rather than the driver physically moving a shifter and pushing in the clutch to change gears each time). If you understand how a transmission works (range, shift points, etc.), a monkey can shift a truck.

It's not THAT easy. I normally run a straight 6 speed, I climbed in several trucks that my brother oversee's that are a high/low 6 speed and an 18 speed. I found out real quick that it's a world of difference from what I'm used to. I cannot imagine going from an auto to a manual with 12 speeds+ to worry about. Now I picked it up rather quickly because I've only driven manual vehicles my whole driving life but for many it's not as easy your portraying.

[mitchno1]

because of our hilly terain auto transmisions in trucks are not so popular here with drivers who have them switiching to manual for hills and suburban areas

[VPIDarkAngel]

They may now, but USX is getting manuals again, so that perception could change... then again, if you still drive for them, you might find yourself with a manual and get said experience. Just remember how to properly use a clutch-brake... half our idiots at this all-manual company don't.

[madaxeman]

It's not THAT easy. I normally run a straight 6 speed, I climbed in several trucks that my brother oversee's that are a high/low 6 speed and an 18 speed. I found out real quick that it's a world of difference from what I'm used to. I cannot imagine going from an auto to a manual with 12 speeds+ to worry about. Now I picked it up rather quickly because I've only driven manual vehicles my whole driving life but for many it's not as easy your portraying.

I was just referring to the Eaton Auto-shift ten-speed and a regular Eaton manual ten-speed (which most companies use). Obviously, if you completely change the transmission to an 18 speed, it will be different. In fact, (if you really wanted to) you could shift and downshift the auto-shift manually with the paddle on the column. It shifts at the same RPM range (and road speed) as the manual 10. It's a piece of cake switching as long as you know WHEN to shift (and downshift). If you went to a decent school you should have learned how. Now, you just have to apply what you learned. I was a bit worried, too...but it was easy once I got in a manual truck (because I remembered what I learned in school even though it was three years earlier).

[Copperhead]

It's not THAT easy. I normally run a straight 6 speed, I climbed in several trucks that my brother oversee's that are a high/low 6 speed and an 18 speed. I found out real quick that it's a world of difference from what I'm used to. I cannot imagine going from an auto to a manual with 12 speeds+ to worry about. Now I picked it up rather quickly because I've only driven manual vehicles my whole driving life but for many it's not as easy your portraying.

But some measure their manhood by the number of gears in a truck and whether they do the work or a computer does it. A 13 or an !8 is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits. Most of the time, unless you just like to shift a lot, a lot of drivers will shift it like a 9 spd except under heavy loads or special terrain. There are indeed special needs for something like an 18, but most general freight applications, it is overkill and meant, somehow, to impress others.

Some of this is true regarding manual vs auto shift. I like a manual, but have looked occasionally at the auto shift as a possibility in the future. There is really no doubt that an auto shift does not suffer from frustration and does not have a bad day with a customer. It will shift predictably and more smoothly than all but the absolute best drivers. Unless you try to do something with it that was not meant to be done, it will never grind a gear. Shift points can be selected in the programming so that it shifts at the times you like for your operation. Is it perfect? Of course not.

It isn't an issue of "you aint a real truck driver unless you are grabbing gears on your own". Many older drivers with lots of years driving under their belts are switching to auto shifts. After 30 years at this, I am considering it. My only issue is that Eaton does not offer the the transmission speed and application that I want. The 13 is not available as a 3 pedal auto shift, only as the 2 pedal ultra shift. I like a foot clutch since I do a lot of drop and hooks, and I like to have the control when involved in some interesting backing situations. The 18 is offered in the 3 pedal variety, but I really don't want to shell out the extra money for something I really don't need. Cost is as much a consideration as anything.

I would agree that everyone should learn with a manual tranny, but after that, it is purely a preference and there are few applications that an auto shift wouldn't work in. And for those that are with companies using auto shifts, it is not that hard of a transition back to an operation that is using manuals. Shifting is only a part of whether someone is a good driver or not. I see idiots every day out here abusing good equipment just because they are morons. A good driver uses his brain and can adapt to any truck engine/tranny combo in a short time. If they have been on auto shifts for quite a while, they may look like a pig on roller-skates when using a manual for a short time. But they will catch on quickly if they apply themselves.

[Orangetxguy]

But some measure their manhood by the number of gears in a truck and whether they do the work or a computer does it. A 13 or an !8 is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits. Most of the time, unless you just like to shift a lot, a lot of drivers will shift it like a 9 spd except under heavy loads or special terrain. There are indeed special needs for something like an 18, but most general freight applications, it is overkill and meant, somehow, to impress others.

Some of this is true regarding manual vs auto shift. I like a manual, but have looked occasionally at the auto shift as a possibility in the future. There is really no doubt that an auto shift does not suffer from frustration and does not have a bad day with a customer. It will shift predictably and more smoothly than all but the absolute best drivers. Unless you try to do something with it that was not meant to be done, it will never grind a gear. Shift points can be selected in the programming so that it shifts at the times you like for your operation. Is it perfect? Of course not.

It isn't an issue of "you aint a real truck driver unless you are grabbing gears on your own". Many older drivers with lots of years driving under their belts are switching to auto shifts. After 30 years at this, I am considering it. My only issue is that Eaton does not offer the the transmission speed and application that I want. The 13 is not available as a 3 pedal auto shift, only as the 2 pedal ultra shift. I like a foot clutch since I do a lot of drop and hooks, and I like to have the control when involved in some interesting backing situations. The 18 is offered in the 3 pedal variety, but I really don't want to shell out the extra money for something I really don't need. Cost is as much a consideration as anything.

I would agree that everyone should learn with a manual tranny, but after that, it is purely a preference and there are few applications that an auto shift wouldn't work in. And for those that are with companies using auto shifts, it is not that hard of a transition back to an operation that is using manuals. Shifting is only a part of whether someone is a good driver or not. I see idiots every day out here abusing good equipment just because they are morons. A good driver uses his brain and can adapt to any truck engine/tranny combo in a short time. If they have been on auto shifts for quite a while, they may look like a pig on roller-skates when using a manual for a short time. But they will catch on quickly if they apply themselves.

If I was gonna go with an "auto-shift', I would just take the leap, spend the extra $$$ and get an Allison automatic. I drove trucks with the 5 and 6 speed cable AND air shift back in the 70's and through the mid 80"s....and I loved them. The new Allison transmissions shift a whole lot better I am betting!

[golfhobo]

Copperhead said:

But some measure their manhood by the number of gears in a truck and whether they do the work or a computer does it.

I'm not bleeding, so I don't think that was a direct hit... but, my ears are ringing.

Personally, my manhood was tested and certified YEARS before I even thought of driving a truck. When I did... I cared mostly about being able to handle it, back and park it, etc. I knew I COULD... I just had to master it to consider myself safe on the road... blah, blah, blah. I NEVER doubted that I could do any of it... except the first time the instructor tried to prove I could shift if without the clutch (floating.) WHAT??? But, I never would have "tackled" trucking without the expectation that I also would have to "tackle" something more than my passenger car's auto transmission!

What I said originally about grandma controlling my truck from home is a prognostication of a future world. You know, one where lethal DRONES are flown by guys in a chair in Omaha. I'll bet some of those grandmas have bigger cajones than some of the drivers on the road today!

But, even THIS is more likely than training a primate to do the job. Nuff said.

A 13 or an !8 is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits. Most of the time, unless you just like to shift a lot, a lot of drivers will shift it like a 9 spd except under heavy loads or special terrain. There are indeed special needs for something like an 18, but most general freight applications, it is overkill and meant, somehow, to impress others.

For the most part, I agree. This year was the first time since school that I had to use a 13 spd. My boss even told me... "it's just like a 9 speed with an overdrive." He was WRONG. I drive West coast and back... most drivers do 48 states. I think that would qualify for nearly every example of "special terrain" we have in America. There is a HUGE difference in the pulling power and top end (for the range) between 8th and 9th gears on a 10 speed... and 11th and 12th on a 13! Especially when climbing out of Coachella to Chirriaco Summit on I-10 out of Cali! At least there is for a truck that is not limited to 60-65 mph!

Some of this is true regarding manual vs auto shift. I like a manual, but have looked occasionally at the auto shift as a possibility in the future. There is really no doubt that an auto shift does not suffer from frustration and does not have a bad day with a customer. It will shift predictably and more smoothly than all but the absolute best drivers. Unless you try to do something with it that was not meant to be done, it will never grind a gear. Shift points can be selected in the programming so that it shifts at the times you like for your operation. Is it perfect? Of course not.

About 2 years after I started, and who knows how many "pan-national" trips in a 10 spd.... I was told to go up to G'boro and bring home an identical truck with an auto-shift. Two blocks from the dealer, as I was attempting a left turn over a bridge over the interstate, the truck "balked" at rev limit for the gear I was in. It wouldn't shift UP to get me out of there... or DOWN to let me try over. I switched to manual override, and hit the paddle... with not much better luck. I FINALLY got out of the way of traffic, but was stricken by the realization that I could have been KILLED if I needed to get out of the way of a speeding truck or something! I was furious! Either GRANDMA... or the MONKEY.... had failed me. My abilities with a manual transmission of any speed never WOULD have.

It isn't an issue of "you aint a real truck driver unless you are grabbing gears on your own". Many older drivers with lots of years driving under their belts are switching to auto shifts. After 30 years at this, I am considering it.

I agree to some extent. My brother (who never wanted to BE a trucker,) drove an auto for awhile and used to kid me about how he could eat a sandwich and talk on the phone while driving! But... the original question came from a newbie (I believe) who didn't HAVE years of experience "under his belt" with a manual. Was he even asking if it was a good "training" move.... or, an economical one. One of "hireability?"

My only issue is that Eaton does not offer the the transmission speed and application that I want. The 13 is not available as a 3 pedal auto shift, only as the 2 pedal ultra shift.

Yeah but...

A 13 ... is nothing more than a 9 spd with splits.

I like a foot clutch since I do a lot of drop and hooks, and I like to have the control when involved in some interesting backing situations. The 18 is offered in the 3 pedal variety, but I really don't want to shell out the extra money for something I really don't need. Cost is as much a consideration as anything.

One night in Florida, a lady just a few years older than me, who was experienced on a manual, asked me to back her truck/trailer into a dock. She had broken her only pair of eyeglasses (or so she said.) It was an AUTO "something" and she warned me about how hard it was to keep it tight against the dock (or even GET it there because of the "bump" nature with the auto.) I don't need any MORE reminders of why I don't drive an auto.

I would agree that everyone should learn with a manual tranny, but after that, it is purely a preference and there are few applications that an auto shift wouldn't work in. And for those that are with companies using auto shifts, it is not that hard of a transition back to an operation that is using manuals. Shifting is only a part of whether someone is a good driver or not. I see idiots every day out here abusing good equipment just because they are morons.

I'm just gonna let that pass without comment.

A good driver uses his brain and can adapt to any truck engine/tranny combo in a short time.

Didn't I say something about this earlier? Show me a guy/gal with years of experience in an AUTO that can adapt to this as quickly as I can. Show me a monkey that can do it quicker. On the other hand.... if the future IS auto-shifts, well.... let me introduce you to my grandma!

If they have been on auto shifts for quite a while, they may look like a pig on roller-skates when using a manual for a short time. But they will catch on quickly if they apply themselves.

Ah yes... After being a competition roller skater in my youth, I felt sure I could handle "inline skates." So did my sister-in-law who fell and broke her arm. Ask ANYONE using a digital camera what the focal length, film speed, or shutter speed was on the last picture he took. I'll bet a monkey could give you the same blank stare.

Sure... the monkey might be trained to hit the right "button" to snap the picture. Could go viral! But.... that don't make him no PHOTOGRAPHER!

[Copperhead]

Well, the future of transportation was the automobile over a century ago. And I'll bet there were wagon wheel workers that complained about it for several decades after they were out of work. At least there are still options for those that prefer one transmission over another. That doesn't make the auto shift or the manual any better than the other. Regarding the Allison, that is pure automatic and it has been shown to not get the desired fuel economy of an auto shift. That may change in the future.

It would seem that some feel that if these new drivers do not learn in an old un-air conditioned truck with no air ride seats, a coffin style sleeper, a 5x4 tranny, etc, then they are not real truck drivers. I have trained some of these new drivers in the past and there were a couple of them that I would have been more than willing to put up against some of the "old hands". It is pure arrogance to demand a new driver learn everything the way we had to learn it. And with all the other things that a new driver has to worry about in that first year, if by putting an auto shift in a truck so that the driver can put more of the focus on the road and those around him, then what's the problem? There will always be time down the road to learn all the other things we all have learned. And considering the maintenance issues, it is less costly to put a new driver in a truck with an auto shift. Less drive train abuse. If you are paying for the truck, then you can decide how it is spec'd for a new driver. If I was paying the bills and a new driver was in my truck, I would seriously consider an auto shift to reduce the problems I mentioned.

It isn't a perfect world, and there is no one size fits all perfect solution.

[golfhobo]

It isn't a perfect world, and there is no one size fits all perfect solution.

Yes there is. I am one of them. Trained to shift whatever I would encounter during my career (except "autos.") Capable and intelligent enough to figure out and master ANY of them. Experienced in, and fully trained on, the interstate and highway system of the U.S. Map qualified, Superior to the gps system. Familiar with, and not scared of, the old highway system (before the interstates.) Snow and Ice qualified and tested. [Are the auto tranny's?]

Generally speaking ((and this is a humorous allusion to the Gordon Cooper character (Dennis Quaid) in "The Right Stuff,")) the BEST dang truckdriver I ever saw!

the future of transportation was the automobile over a century ago. And I'll bet there were wagon wheel workers that complained about it for several decades after they were out of work.

No. It was the horse drawn "freight companies" that suffered from the innovation. Do you KNOW why our union is called "the Teamsters?"

It would seem that some feel that if these new drivers do not learn in an old un-air conditioned truck with no air ride seats, a coffin style sleeper, a 5x4 tranny, etc, then they are not real truck drivers.

Nope. Never "served" under those conditions. Have always had a nice "Condo" truck with all the amenities.... AND a 10 or 13 spd manual tranny. But, thanks for the melodramatics!

It is pure arrogance to demand a new driver learn everything the way we had to learn it.

Guilty as charged! IF I owned a truck.... I would demand it! Heck... I demand it of myself NOW!

[madaxeman]

One positive thing I can say about the auto-shift (which I drove for 18 months is this)...having to go through metros, like Chicago, in heavy, stop-and-go traffic jams for two to three hours, I'll take the auto-shift any day over a manual (unless you like shifting and downshifting 100s of times to not get very far, very fast). Personally, I'd wait until rush hour is over but you don't always have that liberty due to appointment times. Another thing I found positive was this...when I got out driving school and started working, I was able to concentrate on all of the other aspects of driving. I became skilled at lane control, turns, both sighted and blindside backing, etc. When I made the switch (to a manual transmission), it was really easy and only had to be concerned about getting used to shifting and downshift because everything else was a piece of cake at that point.

[golfhobo]

Good points. I've "wished" it myself (under my breath) a few times in a 5 mile backup for an accident. Wanted to beat up the trucker who caused it.

[Fredog]

next thing you know, these pussies are going to want power steering and air conditioning

[Malaki86]

next thing you know, these pussies are going to want power steering and air conditioning

And air-ride tractors!!! Bring out the pitchforks!!! Hang them from the town square!!!

Seriously, though, one of the best trucks I've ever driven was a 2002 Volvo 770 with the 10-speed autoshift (not the ultrashift). The truck had fantastic power and maintened the best fuel mileage in our entire fleet (50 trucks). The only time I had a problem was when the X-Y shifter started to go bad. Even with that, a tap on the transmission with a hammer fixed it. I would've bought that truck in a heartbeat.