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Thread: Low wages, high danger. Is trucking really worth it?

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    Default Low wages, high danger. Is trucking really worth it?

    I currently have a CDL but haven't been behind the wheel since 2007...this was with Swift and I was a trainee. Over the last four years, I have been looking for work (from electrician to courier to import agent at a Japanese freight forwarding company), and have managed to get a few temporary jobs, but nothing permanant. The economy has been harsh!

    Over the last few days, I've been considering going back to school for a refresher here in CA so I can get a job as an OTR truck driver (as none of the local/LTL guys seem to want to hire people straight out of school). But after reading several posts on here, it looks like trucking just isn't worth it paywise:

    25 cents per mile x 50 miles per hour average x 90% x 70 hours per week / (40 hours + 20 hours *150% + 10 hours*200%) = $8.75 per hour

    Here's what went into this equation.

    25 cents per mile = starting wage with most of the big training companies
    50 miles per hour average = average driving speed (includes EVERYTHING like traffic, drop/PU at consignee/shipper, fueling up, taking a shower,...)
    90% = Household Goods miles (they're about 10% under what you are supposed to get)

    70 hours per week / (40 hours + 20 hours *150% + 10 hours*200%) = in California, you're supposed to get time and a half for hours worked over 40 and doubletime for hours worked over 60. So this is used to compensate for the fact that there's no overtime when you're paid CPM.


    To me, $8.75 is way waaaaaay too little money to drive an 18-wheeled monster loaded to 80,000 pounds in sometimes dangerous conditions and with violations threatening to take $1000s of dollars away from your salary, and this, for me, was enough for me to keep looking.

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    Orangetxguy's Avatar
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    Well.......IF you planned on only driving in the state of California, your wage formula might actually be close. BUT if you actually drove Over The Road, once you were out of the state of California.....your formula would go out the window.

    There are driving jobs in CA that where you could gross $30 to $40 thousand dollars a year. There are driving jobs in CA where you could gross $40 to $50 thousand dollars a year. There are also driving jobs in California where you could gross $65 to $85 thousand dollars a year.

    Gaining those jobs takes two things, the willingness to wade through the crap to get to those jobs, and the willingness to prove to the people who hire drivers for those jobs that you want the job and can do the job safely.

    Working out of California there are plenty of OTR jobs that pay better than Werner Enterprises. BUT.........YOU have to get the necessary experience behind you to gain those jobs.
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009

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    I would not worry about the hourly pay. You can still earn more in a week than most other professions with minimal training. We all pay our dues when we start out. All jobs pay lower in the beginning until you gain some experience. You will usually start out in the $30-35,000 range and in a year or two can be earning $40,000+. There are not many jobs where you can earn that much in such a short period of time. This is primarily a performance business where drivers are compensated based upon their efforts. The more miles you can drive in a week the bigger your paycheck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMAN View Post
    I would not worry about the hourly pay.
    Thats the problem with OTR driving. Too many people think that way.

    Your time is worth something aint it??? I think its worth more then 8.75hr.

    This is the reason why i always drove local and got paid by the hour with OT after 40.
    Truck Driving an occupation consisting of hours of boredom interrupted by sheer terror!!

    "All the coolie carriers suck. Log 70, work 80-100, paid for 50." - the Great ColdFrostyMug



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    Even most college graduates start out making less than most OTR drivers with 4 years experience. It is true that most of college grads think that they are going to make 6 figure incomes right out of school and then reality hits them, and many of them still have to live at home with mom and dad because they can barely afford their own places. Same is true for new drivers. They seem to think that they are worth $60,000+ a year out of the gate. Even electrical apprentices, plumbing apprentices, etc make little more than the starting yearly income of new truck drivers. Every one has to start out and "pay their dues" in the sense of gaining more experience and developing a safe track record along with a proven reliability.

    One thing to keep in mind in all this... If you make $51,000 a year or more income, you are in the top 10% of income earners in the country! Facts are what they are. Check out the facts at the IRS and Department of Labor. I find it fascinating that some would expect, with 8 weeks of training, to be in the top 10% of income. It would be nice, and we all feel our time is valuable. But your time is only as valuable as what another person is willing to pay for it. You want to get paid more? Then make yourself marketable to a higher salary. Do specialized transportation or some other niche market that has less competition. Oh, but then you will have to still get the experience and reliability behind you.

    Sure, the national average pay scale for drivers is low for an area like CA or NY. But you are dealing with a national pool of drivers. There are many areas of the country where making $30-40,000 a year is pretty good and you can live well. I live in Central Iowa. The $60,000 net I had last year is top scale for where I live. The AVERAGE income for Iowa is around $47,000. And I have a higher standard of living than many in LA or Frisco that make more than I do, primarily because my dollar buys more in a place like Iowa than what it will in CA or NY.

    And GMan has it pegged right as well. This is a performance based system we live under in trucking, especially OTR. That and targeting a more specialized segment is the only way to maximize income. If you keep yourself in the generic form of trucking, don't expect big things. Or you can choose to get your own truck and then you can tweak things yourself and maximize your profits as opposed to doing the one size fits all pay rate that a company will provide. One thing for certain, you have to think outside the box compared to the average worker.
    Last edited by Copperhead; 11-06-2011 at 10:12 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copperhead View Post
    Even most college graduates start out making less than most OTR drivers with 4 years experience. It is true that most of college grads think that they are going to make 6 figure incomes right out of school and then reality hits them, and many of them still have to live at home with mom and dad because they can barely afford their own places. Same is true for new drivers. They seem to think that they are worth $60,000+ a year out of the gate. Even electrical apprentices, plumbing apprentices, etc make little more than the starting yearly income of new truck drivers. Every one has to start out and "pay their dues" in the sense of gaining more experience and developing a safe track record along with a proven reliability.

    One thing to keep in mind in all this... If you make $51,000 a year or more income, you are in the top 10% of income earners in the country! Facts are what they are. Check out the facts at the IRS and Department of Labor. I find it fascinating that some would expect, with 8 weeks of training, to be in the top 10% of income. It would be nice, and we all feel our time is valuable. But your time is only as valuable as what another person is willing to pay for it. You want to get paid more? Then make yourself marketable to a higher salary. Do specialized transportation or some other niche market that has less competition. Oh, but then you will have to still get the experience and reliability behind you.

    Sure, the national average pay scale for drivers is low for an area like CA or NY. But you are dealing with a national pool of drivers. There are many areas of the country where making $30-40,000 a year is pretty good and you can live well. I live in Central Iowa. The $60,000 net I had last year is top scale for where I live. The AVERAGE income for Iowa is around $47,000. And I have a higher standard of living than many in LA or Frisco that make more than I do, primarily because my dollar buys more in a place like Iowa than what it will in CA or NY.

    And GMan has it pegged right as well. This is a performance based system we live under in trucking, especially OTR. That and targeting a more specialized segment is the only way to maximize income. If you keep yourself in the generic form of trucking, don't expect big things. Or you can choose to get your own truck and then you can tweak things yourself and maximize your profits as opposed to doing the one size fits all pay rate that a company will provide. One thing for certain, you have to think outside the box compared to the average worker.


    You did a lot better describing what I wanted to impart to the young man than I did!! :thumbsup:



    Mackman ..........You are proof that what I said about "wading through the crap" is true! You started out "paying your dues" like we all did. Now....YOU are a successful businessman, because you took the crap jobs, learned the trade....then let your own ambitions take over. Having your father there to tweak the road for you was helpful........but your own ambition and willingness to learn is what made you successful........in a cut-throat economical environment.....as well as in a cut-throat area of the country too!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    DoubleNickel.......trucking is a career that you have to want to be in. Plain and simple. Learn the craft and be ambitious, and you will make a very decent living as a company driver, even in California. Learn how to be a good businessman....and eventually you will have an even better life than you expect.......just like our young "Mack-dude" did and does.
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetxguy View Post


    Mackman ..........You are proof that what I said about "wading through the crap" is true! You started out "paying your dues" like we all did. Now....YOU are a successful businessman, because you took the crap jobs, learned the trade....then let your own ambitions take over. Having your father there to tweak the road for you was helpful........but your own ambition and willingness to learn is what made you successful........in a cut-throat economical environment.....as well as in a cut-throat area of the country too!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
    Thanks Stan. Im Trying.

    I hate it when people in OTR driving always talk about making 50-55k a year. Yea thats great money but look at the hours you work for it. 70hrs a week to make 55k a year is not that great to me. I understand nothing is going to change and thats how OTR trucking works. But the avg person will not work 70hrs a week for 55k a year.
    Truck Driving an occupation consisting of hours of boredom interrupted by sheer terror!!

    "All the coolie carriers suck. Log 70, work 80-100, paid for 50." - the Great ColdFrostyMug



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackman View Post
    Thanks Stan. Im Trying.

    I hate it when people in OTR driving always talk about making 50-55k a year. Yea thats great money but look at the hours you work for it. 70hrs a week to make 55k a year is not that great to me. I understand nothing is going to change and thats how OTR trucking works. But the avg person will not work 70hrs a week for 55k a year.

    The average person in this country would work 70 hours for a lot less than $55,000/year.

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    The average person in this country would work 70 hours for a lot less than $55,000/year.
    $55,000 per year at 70 hours per week would work out to about $12.22 per hour straight time, assuming two weeks of vacation per year. And I'd think a truck driver would make this after getting 1 or 2 years of experience under his belt.

    But I still can't imagine being paid less than $13 per hour to do something that many people, drivers and non, would consider very dangerous work. See the chart on page 5:
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf


    You've got an 80,000 pound behemoth under your hands, specialized training, and more responsibility than anyone else on the road. Watching out for 4 wheelers, dealing with weather, dealing with DOT regs and possibly getting smacked with huge fines that the company won't pay for, having to chain up and run in winter because dispatch wants you there tomorrow, etc., demands a lot more than less than 13 bucks an hour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleNickel55 View Post
    $55,000 per year at 70 hours per week would work out to about $12.22 per hour straight time, assuming two weeks of vacation per year. And I'd think a truck driver would make this after getting 1 or 2 years of experience under his belt.

    But I still can't imagine being paid less than $13 per hour to do something that many people, drivers and non, would consider very dangerous work. See the chart on page 5:
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf


    You've got an 80,000 pound behemoth under your hands, specialized training, and more responsibility than anyone else on the road. Watching out for 4 wheelers, dealing with weather, dealing with DOT regs and possibly getting smacked with huge fines that the company won't pay for, having to chain up and run in winter because dispatch wants you there tomorrow, etc., demands a lot more than less than 13 bucks an hour.
    Lad......You are focusing to much on OTR and hourly wages. You really can not do that. IF you drive local....absolutely. There are a lot of driving jobs that pay hourly, and well over $55K a year.

    Before you can get to the decent wage in truck driving, you have to pass the physical, get the CDL then get experience. You are not going to walk into this industry and make $50K + right out the gate. My first year driving professionally I made $19,000. That was in 1979....but it was also working in the oilfield. My second year I made $43,000.......and I have not made less than $65,000 since........hell.........I don't know. When I was working local in Seattle, I was knocking down $65K without putting in 50 hours a week. When I was putting in 60 hours every week, I was knocking down $85K plus!

    As far as dealing with DOT regulations.......You are here putting the cart before the horse....in a lot of regards.
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleNickel55 View Post
    $55,000 per year at 70 hours per week would work out to about $12.22 per hour straight time, assuming two weeks of vacation per year. And I'd think a truck driver would make this after getting 1 or 2 years of experience under his belt.

    But I still can't imagine being paid less than $13 per hour to do something that many people, drivers and non, would consider very dangerous work. See the chart on page 5:
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf


    You've got an 80,000 pound behemoth under your hands, specialized training, and more responsibility than anyone else on the road. Watching out for 4 wheelers, dealing with weather, dealing with DOT regs and possibly getting smacked with huge fines that the company won't pay for, having to chain up and run in winter because dispatch wants you there tomorrow, etc., demands a lot more than less than 13 bucks an hour.

    I don't consider truck driving any more dangerous than driving to work every day. It is all about your perspective. If you want to work 40 hours per week and make $300 then by all means, go to McDonald's or any of the other fast food restaurants and they will fix you up. This is not a business for everyone. It takes a certain type of personality to make it work. Unless you work in one of the specialized segments of the industry, you won't be doing a lot of physical labor. Most drivers don't chain up unless they run in some parts of the northwest during winter. Even then, it isn't always a requirement. You can always wait until the roads are cleared.

    Driving relaxes me. I would think that many of those who have been doing this for a number of years feel the same. There are frustrations, as with any job, but the pros have always been greater than the cons in this business. So what if you work 70 hours in a week. It isn't like you are working on an assembly line or standing on your feet all day for those hours. You get to see this great country of ours and someone pays you to see it. This business pays drivers based upon their performance. Those who are the best performers earn the highest income. You are never limited by an hourly wage, unless you choose to work locally. You always have the opportunity to buy your own truck and earn more money. You can build your own trucking company or fleet of trucks and don't need a college degree to do it. Most experienced drivers like the idea of being paid on performance. I don't see that changing. If you don't like the way drivers are paid then there are other professions that you might enjoy better. Go to college and spend 4 years and you can get a decent job in another field. You may or may not make more money than your average truck driver. You will likely have someone looking over your shoulder. That isn't the case with otr trucking. There are many college graduates who have come to trucking as a career. It is one career that you won't be forced to retire as long as you can pass the dot physical and have a clean work history and mvr.

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    Thanks everyone for a good explanation of what to expect as a professional driver. After years of work experience, most people know that nothing can be all about money. Of course, money is needed to provide food, shelter etc, but other aspects are more important. Things such as purpose and meaning last much longer than it takes to spend a dollar, and these things help to smooth the rough patches that every life has. I read somewhere that almost everything made or sold in the US spent some time in a truck, and every truck needs a driver. This puts professional drivers at the center of commerce, production and fulfillment. It's pretty terrific that driving provides a decent living in an honorable profession.

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    Hey thanks for Mackman's post and the wisdom that follows. I am a college grad, (4 year university, not community college) and I can verify that getting any kind of job is darned near impossible to get. I have been making about $7.75 part time recently, and considering myself "lucky" to have any kind of job. Just to clear 20K would be great in the first year. The truth is still you get out what you put into it.

    I just want to point out that in the field I studied (technical writing and editing), 70 hour weeks are also (often) required. Usually you are salaried, so they can work you as long as you want, no OT. The average office worker works long hours, weekends, holidays as well. I think that looking at what grass is greener on which side gets you into constant conflict with your perceptions. Basic principal applies. If you don't like the work, look for something else.
    Last edited by KateL; 11-07-2011 at 10:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMAN View Post
    I don't consider truck driving any more dangerous than driving to work every day. It is all about your perspective. If you want to work 40 hours per week and make $300 then by all means, go to McDonald's or any of the other fast food restaurants and they will fix you up. This is not a business for everyone. It takes a certain type of personality to make it work. Unless you work in one of the specialized segments of the industry, you won't be doing a lot of physical labor. Most drivers don't chain up unless they run in some parts of the northwest during winter. Even then, it isn't always a requirement. You can always wait until the roads are cleared.

    Driving relaxes me. I would think that many of those who have been doing this for a number of years feel the same. There are frustrations, as with any job, but the pros have always been greater than the cons in this business. So what if you work 70 hours in a week. It isn't like you are working on an assembly line or standing on your feet all day for those hours. You get to see this great country of ours and someone pays you to see it. This business pays drivers based upon their performance. Those who are the best performers earn the highest income. You are never limited by an hourly wage, unless you choose to work locally. You always have the opportunity to buy your own truck and earn more money. You can build your own trucking company or fleet of trucks and don't need a college degree to do it. Most experienced drivers like the idea of being paid on performance. I don't see that changing. If you don't like the way drivers are paid then there are other professions that you might enjoy better. Go to college and spend 4 years and you can get a decent job in another field. You may or may not make more money than your average truck driver. You will likely have someone looking over your shoulder. That isn't the case with otr trucking. There are many college graduates who have come to trucking as a career. It is one career that you won't be forced to retire as long as you can pass the dot physical and have a clean work history and mvr.
    Gman you paint a rosey picture of OTR driving lol. Working 70hrs a week is not a big deal if you are getting paid fairly to do it.

    Im not going to say anymore on this. Cuz i dont want to get ban like CFM did. But to anyone getting into trucking just look at the turn over rate and ask your self why????
    Last edited by Mackman; 11-07-2011 at 10:40 AM.
    Truck Driving an occupation consisting of hours of boredom interrupted by sheer terror!!

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    According to dot regulations, 62 mph x 11 hours of drive time @ .25 cents per mile would give you $15.50 per hour for your driving, the rest of the time spent in truck stops sitting around is on your dime. Loading and unloading as part of that equation. The more experience you get driving the more money you can get, that same mileage at say .38 cents per mile would equal $23.56. I dont know about you, but I would be happy to make $23.56 per hour for driving a big rig.

    Try not to add up all your hours out there it will drive you nuts, just accept that trucking is a long hour job, no one said it was gonna be easy, if it was, everyone would be doing it! I think it takes a certain breed of person to do this job, its certainly not for everyone. When my wife asks me why I like driving, I just cant give her a normal answer, theres just something about being out on the road that I love and it gets in your blood.

    Good luck finding the right job, dont give up and get out of Cali if you need to get better pay, they are out there, you just need to find them. Safe driving.
    Just an old school trucker, these kids today don't know how good they have it! Power steering, a/c, air ride cabs and trailers, air ride seats! I did not have any of these things when I started driving.
    Drive an old Mack, White or GMC then tell me how good a driver you are!issedoff: :bow::lol2: Don't even get me started on backing in to a dock!ops:

    Instigator!~

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    Default What do you want?

    Do you want to drive or not? That's the way I look at it. Seriously folks, I've wanted to drive a rig ever since C.W. McCall came out with the song "Convoy" (Yeah, I just dated myself, that's because nobody else will date me!)! Anyway, I'm just out of school and having a little trouble finding a job due to a DUI about 4 1/2 years ago. I know it's going to be tough. From what I've been told, this ain't no glamour job neither! I eventually want to get to a local or regional job, but I also know I have to pay my dues first . . . like most of you before me. So after all this has been said, you have to be honest with yourself and ask yourself, "Do I really want to drive OTR so I can get back to being able to do the local stuff?"

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    My two cents on pay versus the dangers of this job, is along the lines of how Gman looks at things, it is all in how you look at the big picture. I drive around every day with 9000 gallons of highly flamable/explosive liquid behind me and never think twice about the dangers of what could happen.. Instead I focus on paying attention to detail and my surroundings, I pay attention to the task at hand and try my hardest not to let other thoughts get in the way.. "Perspective"
    The pay I receive for this job is fantastic and is more then enough to pay our bills. We have some loads that average on the low end $15 an hour but then we have others that lay out upwards of $30 an hour, the key to the pay is not to look at the hourly picture. Hopefully you will find work that pays enough to cover your bills and plan for weeks when work is slow and your checks will be light with the realization that there will be other weeks that your check is heavy, (the big picture) You will never find the perfect job however there are many good jobs out there just remember life is to short to sweat the small stuff.

    Hey Evergreen Colorado neighbor you want to drive local if you can, From day one of my cdl training I have been local, I got trained to pull fuel after 2 pus years of driving and have not looked back since, this is by far the best job I have found, if I could do it so can you it just takes time and persistence..


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    Last edited by Kentla93; 11-08-2011 at 11:58 AM.

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    I get a chuckle when people try to apply complicated mathematical equations to show how LITTLE trucking pays. The O.P. actually included the time spent taking a shower? :eek2: Does McDonald's pay you for taking a shower, or a dump, or eating?

    How many of you "experienced" drivers out there actually work (or log) 70 hours every 7 days? Even if you use up your 70 in 5 days and take 2 off (or at least a 34hr restart,) you've only worked 5 14hr days. Granted... that's a long day! But, like one poster said, many salaried jobs require long days, too. And how much of that day was actually spent napping while waiting to be loaded or unloaded? And I bet OTX can relate to long days like ANYONE who farms or ranches for a living does! So... is trucking worse than farming or ranching? I used to survey for oil. We left at the crack of dawn and returned after the sun set. I made about HALF what I'm making for driving a truck.... and I had to walk 15 miles a day!

    I've looked at local driving jobs in my area, and most pay between 10 and 12 bucks an hour. And MOST of them require 14 hr days and the overtime still doesn't match what I make OTR.

    Before getting into trucking, I worked in a call center for a few years. I started (after training) at about $10 and 3 years later was making $12 (and that was good money around here.) I didn't want to work much overtime, so I grossed about $24k a year doing that. My first year in trucking, I made about $35k like most new drivers do. I could have jumped ship for more money after about 1 year, but I stayed with them for 3. My next job jumped me to about $48k, and here I am 3 years later making mid-50's. I can't tell you how much more satisfying my life is making more than twice what I did only a few short years ago!

    Like GMAN said, the work is easy (especially compared to farming or ranching or construction!) And like Instigator said... there is just something so peaceful about riding the asphalt ribbon across America. I can't believe they pay me so much to do this! Local drivers usually have to unload frozen foods or something several times a day. Who really wants to work that hard?

    I could be making more. And when I am ready, I will. But, I like what I'm doing for now. The thing about having a CDL... and the experience under my belt.... is that I get to choose from thousands of open jobs and lifestyles. Guys who get to start out "local," rarely get considered for any OTR jobs. But, those who pay their dues on the open road can write their own ticket.

    When I started with FedEx 3 years ago, I got a dedicated run. I even voluntarily worked about 8 more hours per week than my co-driver... for the same money! I didn't log breaks and stuff, just line 3 and 4. Total of about 10 hours most days. 50 hours/wk at about a grand gross. That's $20 an hour anyway you look at it.

    Sure... my "time" is worth money. But, I figure a job that pays me twice what I used to make is "compensating" me fairly for that time sitting around on my butt. My peace of mind is worth much MORE than money OR time. And, since I started trucking, my financial stress has disappeared. My depression is all but "cured," and life in general is more satisfying.

    YOU do the math. But, try to be more realistic about it. It's not about an hourly wage for my time. It's about a LIVING wage and reaching financial goals. I will soon be completely out of debt for the first time in my life. I will have paid off all the debt I put on credit cards when I was working a "local" job at half the money.

    It's easy to defend trucking from a financial standpoint. Maybe a bit harder to defend the lifestyle. But, like so many have said.... it ain't for just everybody! See my sigline!

    America was built by men (and women) who had "the right stuff" to suffer the hardships of pioneering the West, or tilling soil to grow crops, or long days herding cattle and mending fences. And then there are those who count their money, argue about their hours of work, and kiss azz to climb the corporate ladder.

    The choice is yours. Choose wisely, as one day the end will come and you will have to decide whether or not your life was worth your "time."

    The Hobo
    Remember... friends are few and far between.

    TRUCKIN' AIN'T FOR WUSSES!!!

    "I am willing to admit that I was wrong." The Rev.

  20. #19
    Musicman's Avatar
    Musicman is offline Senior Board Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMAN View Post
    The average person in this country would work 70 hours for a lot less than $55,000/year.
    Yes, but would they do it and be on the road for three to six weeks, come home for a few days and then be hustled back out on the road for another lengthy period? That is one of my issues with the industry. I could work (and I have) two and a half $10 an hour jobs (with no overtime) and make $50k a year and still see my family more than the average OTR job allows. Don’t get me wrong, obviously I’ve stuck around in this business for some reason, but trucking leaves a lot to be desired in a lot of areas. I don’t think I could ever work for one of the larger carriers and put up with their BS demands.

    Another thing to consider when comparing OTR pay with traditional jobs is what has happened to the pay rate in our industry. My first OTR job, in 1997, was netting me about $1,200 a week (with NO experience). I think I was making 28cpm, $15 a stop cash (average 30 stops a week), 2,700 miles a week, and $30 a day per diem paid in cash each week. I’d get a check for maybe $800 and an envelope with three or four hundred dollars in it. These days, most newbie drivers would give anything to make that.
    Last edited by Musicman; 11-09-2011 at 06:27 AM.
    "The Breakfast of Champions isn't cereal, it's the competition!" - "Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." - "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

  21. #20
    repete's Avatar
    repete is offline Senior Board Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instigator View Post
    According to dot regulations, 62 mph x 11 hours of drive time @ ..
    It dosn't work like that anymore, and the people that think it still does are in for a rude awaking. I do have to say atleast you didn't use 65MPH!

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