Do I need a Class A?

[bikemad]

Hello all! I am new here.

I have a buisiness building handcycles in San Diego, CA, and I bought an old bus to haul my demo fleet arround to shows and events.

My question is do I need a CDL? I am pretty sure that I don't. I called California Highway Patrol, and they assured me that I do not. So long as I do not drive for hire. My worry is that when I drive outside of California the rules might be different. Does anyone have any information on this.

The bus is a 39ft bluebird with airbrakes and a 8.2L Detroit Diesel engine.

Any coments, and information from other states, would be helpful.

Graham
Intrepid Cycles Handcycle specialists

[Mackman]

You know the GVW on the bus?? Does it have seats still in it?? If it does how many people can it sit??

This is one of them big grey areas. Some say you do and others say you dont lol

[Orangetxguy]

Hello all! I am new here.

I have a buisiness building handcycles in San Diego, CA, and I bought an old bus to haul my demo fleet arround to shows and events.

My question is do I need a CDL? I am pretty sure that I don't. I called California Highway Patrol, and they assured me that I do not. So long as I do not drive for hire. My worry is that when I drive outside of California the rules might be different. Does anyone have any information on this.

The bus is a 39ft bluebird with airbrakes and a 8.2L Detroit Diesel engine.

Any coments, and information from other states, would be helpful.

Graham
Intrepid Cycles Handcycle specialists

Commercial motor vehicle groups. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

383.91Commercial motor vehicle groups. (a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows: Code of Federal Regulations207


(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.(3) Small Vehicle (Group C)—Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F). (b) Representative vehicle. For purposes of taking the driving test in accordance with §383.113, a representative vehicle for a given vehicle group contained in §383.91(a), is any commercial motor vehicle which meets the definition of that vehicle group. (c) Relation between vehicle groups. Each driver applicant who desires to operate in a different commercial motor vehicle group from the one which his/her CDL authorizes shall be required to retake and pass all related tests, except the following: (1) A driver who has passed the knowledge and skills tests for a combination vehicle (Group A) may operate a heavy straight vehicle (Group B) or a small vehicle (Group C), provided that he/she possesses the requisite endorsement(s); and(2) A driver who has passed the knowledge and skills tests for a heavy straight vehicle (Group B) may operate any small vehicle (Group C), provided that he/she possesses the requisite endorsement(s).

That is the Federal standard that the states are required to go by.

Does your bus fit any of those items?

Get the GVWR checked. If it is under 26001 pounds....you don't need a CDL. It wouldn't hurt to get yourself educated on the airbrakes and their up keep....for your safet and the safety of those you share the road with. Especially when you have some steep grades right outside of Diego to contend with.

[crb]

Most busses that size have a GVW rating of 33,000 lbs or more I believe. I would think you need class B cdl. If he is using for business purposed would he not need an air brake endorsement?

[Orangetxguy]

Most busses that size have a GVW rating of 33,000 lbs or more I believe. I would think you need class B cdl. If he is using for business purposed would he not need an air brake endorsement?

Yup. I don't understand how a CHP officer could have been sooooooo misinformed.

[crb]

Well it is CHP! LOL. Although CHP are supposed to be the all knowing anti trucker big bad bears.

Now if he is not for hire he won't need DOT numbers will he?

Class B with air brakes will not be hard to acquire you should be able to take the test in your bus even. Now if you plan on towing a 10,001 lbs GVW trailer behind the bus you will need a class A. I wouldn't recommend pulling that heavy of a trailer with an ex school bus or similar bus that has the rear axle so far forward. Just my opinion!

[Orangetxguy]

Well it is CHP! LOL. Although CHP are supposed to be the all knowing anti trucker big bad bears.

Now if he is not for hire he won't need DOT numbers will he?

Class B with air brakes will not be hard to acquire you should be able to take the test in your bus even. Now if you plan on towing a 10,001 lbs GVW trailer behind the bus you will need a class A. I wouldn't recommend pulling that heavy of a trailer with an ex school bus or similar bus that has the rear axle so far forward. Just my opinion!

NOW there is the question. It used to be that if you were doing business with something like an old U-haul or Ryder moving truck, you did need a USDOT number, even if you did not "haul for hire". I think if he checks, because he plans on using the old bus for more than pleasure, he does need both his USDOT as well as his CA numbers.

LOL .......I know that CHP DOT can be awfully nosy when it comes to things like that.

[WidowMaker2]

If he comes to illinois and is over 26,001, he will certainly need a Class B license with air brakes. I know that the laws vary in each state, but in illinois, you most certainly need a CDL regardless.

[bikemad]

Thank you all for your input. It is really helpful!

The Gross Vehicular Weight is 27,800 lbs and it does have air brakes.

It sounds like I would at least need an airbrake endorsement. I probably also need a class B....do any of you know whether that need to be a commercial or non commercial?

First thing that I need to do is get educated about how to adjust airbrakes. Does anybody have a recommendation of where I can read up on this? I have a pretty clear idea of how they work. I always drain my tanks, but it would be great to get more formal information.

Thanks for all your help

Graham
Intrepid Handcycles

[crb]

The state drivers manual should tell you how to adjust brakes its easy. The bus may have automatic slack adjusters.

Basically you need a 7/16" wrench release the brakes with wheels chocked. You crawl under the bus and use the wrench to tighten the pads to the drum and then back it off a half turn. Sorry I don't have pictures or diagrams, but the drivers manual should. I haven't adjusted a brake in 7 or 8 years.

[Orangetxguy]

Thank you all for your input. It is really helpful!

The Gross Vehicular Weight is 27,800 lbs and it does have air brakes.

It sounds like I would at least need an airbrake endorsement. I probably also need a class B....do any of you know whether that need to be a commercial or non commercial?

First thing that I need to do is get educated about how to adjust airbrakes. Does anybody have a recommendation of where I can read up on this? I have a pretty clear idea of how they work. I always drain my tanks, but it would be great to get more formal information.

Thanks for all your help

Graham
Intrepid Handcycles

Since I have had a commercial license since I was 21, I have never checked into what is available on a "Private" license. But.....like CRB suggested.....you're money ahead to take your question to the DMV.........not to your local LEO....but to the DMV. Class "B" has always meant commercial license to me. Since you are in Kalifornia....you need to think how you do this. IF you pull a trailer behind that bus, you can expect to be pulled to the shoulder by a CHP-DOT officer and measured. IF your total length is greater than 53 feet, he will make you call a tow truck if you don't have a class "A".

[Windwalker]

I know that there is a loophole in the law that says: If you own the equipment, and it is grossed under 26,000, you do not require a CDL. My son-in-law ran a hotshot for years without one and had it licensed for 25,999. But, he did not have air-brakes. At 27,800, I suggest you get one. Also, you will need a DOT Physical. Do not plan on finding a way around that.

[HP9K]

One other thing to throw into the mix - if this vehicle was originally designed as a bus built to carry 16 or more passengers (including the driver), you might still be required to get a CDL. With the GVW you quoted, it would be a class B with a passenger endorsement. I have a friend that worked for the DDS here in Georgia and one day we got into a discussion of people that converted old buses into motorhomes. He said according to the laws here, the class of license a vehicle requires is based on what the vehicle was designed for, and what is stated on the data plate - not what the current use of the vehicle is. So even though you removed the seats and are using it for something other than transporting passengers, it's still considered a bus for licensing purposes. Just another 2 cents worth.