Kind of Grizzly . .

[Mr. Ford95]

In every type of rear end collision, it is the driver's fault who hit the vehicle. The law states you must have "total control" of your vehicle at all times. Heck, the vehicle in front of you might slam on his brakes. If you rear-end him, it is your fault. Failure to maintain control of the vehicle.

Not always. In VA if you slam on your brakes, aka: brake check someone, without a reasonble cause or danger in front of you, YOU will be charged for disorderly conduct at the minimum. They will look to also stick aggressive driving, reckless driving, vehicluar assault/willful stopping/impeding or damaging vehicle and improper backing/stopping or turning on you for that stunt. Buddy plowed into the back of a car who stopped at a green light, he was not found at fault. The lady he plowed into was faulted and had to pay for all vehicles involved along with a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic and improper stopping.

[golfhobo]

Well if you see me get out of the left lane. Cuz there are still some trucks out there that can do well past 70. You slow poke. lol

LOL @ Mackman!! [Aren't you still a "local" Wuss??]

1) Part of my point was that I ALWAYS "see you!" Rarely does a faster truck "sneak up on me." BECAUSE I am in what I consider the "truck fastlane," I always watch for trucks gaining on me, and give WAY to them if it will not impede ME. I mean, I'm not going to do the next 10 minutes BEHIND a slower truck in the right lane, with merging traffic and all, if it will take you THAT long to pass me. But, if you're "a comin'" and I'm in your way? I'll take a Dive for a minute to let you by! I do it every day... and I am always "thanked" for it by the other "professional" drivers that know what I did.

2) This is the slowest truck I've ever driven.... yet it is faster than 80% or more on the road! i.e: I PASS 8 trucks for every 2 that pass ME.... every day! With my first company, when I ran WEST.... I started at 72, went to 75, then got one that would do 80! Yeah..... I STILL got passed by TripleDigitBob every now and then, but the scenario was JUST like I explained it thus far.

3) But, you can see why I try to "hang out" in the left lane (usually on a 3 lane interstate.) There are ALOT of trucks on the road! I can't be running up on them and wanting to move over when there is a line of CARS out there that are just "matching" my speed!

4) I'll move over for you OR ANYONE that demonstrates the ability AND the desire to get by me before I have to take off the cruise control! OR.... face an "onramp" that I know will have lots of (stupid) traffic! Again.... I try to accommodate ANY other driver who is ALSO "on the job" within certain conditions. I do that because I am a PROFESSIONAL driver. [and generally a NICE guy!]

[golfhobo]

ilikeike said:

I can't argue that point . . but I will if I can find some statistics to back it up.

You sound a lot like ME! [But, obviously OLDER!]

Speed absolutely makes for more severe accidents but you're postulating frequency, correct?

Correct. And Wrong on the first part. How fast were the drivers in THIS "fatal" accident driving? My point would be that limiting speed FORCES trucks into the right lane, often in an elephant train, and with time to daydream or talk on the phone.... while, at the same time, being in THE lane into which everyone must MERGE... and THE lane from which many 4wheelers wake up and slam on their brakes to make an EXIT! [Obviously, the situation is WORST when going thru major metropolitan areas.]

For now, I'll say your observation is as much a matter of perception as anything else.

You can say what you want. I believe I COULD find statistics to back it up, but "perception" will do for now. I've driven the breadth of this country hundreds (maybe thousands) of times in my life, (even before trucking) and my "perception" is based on YEARS of experience in that regard. Not to mention stats and "probabilities."

Simple question.... what percentage of truck accidents happen in the MIDDLE or LEFT lane? [I'm guessing about 5% or LESS.]

MOST trucks are IN the right lane. 99% of all exit ramps and on ramps are from/to the right lane. 99% of all cars/trucks sitting on the shoulder are next to the RIGHT lane. 80% of all OLDER/SLOWER drivers are in the RIGHT lane. You see where I'm going here?

My perception is completely the opposite.

Fair enough, but WHERE do you drive?

I'd say the vast majority of wrecks I've encountered involve companies I don't recognize, FEDEX and UPS excepted.

I ABSOLUTELY see the point you are making! BTW.... I drive for FEDEX now.

My prejudice is probably based on my assumption that, if I don't recognize the company, the truck isn't governed, at least not as slow as mine. Conversely, I almost always recognize the trucks I pass.

I KNOW what you are saying. I've felt the same way. "Unknown" trucks are often O/O, ungoverned, and POSSIBLY pushing the HOS (let alone the speed limit.) It is EASY to make assumptions. Interestingly, you "exempted" FEDEX and UPS. But.... how many trucks do WE have compared to O/O's or small fleets? UPS, BTW.... usually is in the right lane. STATS are only informative when tempered by "ratios."

You've said yourself that when you encounter a Swift, for example, you pretty well know what you have to contend with. I agree with that.

Exactly, a SLOWER truck in the right lane who will pull out and BLOCK me for a "Ten mile pass" without any regard to professionalism, if I don't get BY him first!

I'm a lot more concerned with the containers and fuel yankers and especially the seasonal rock, trash and farm haulers who clearly have little experience yet drive some of the fastest trucks on the road.

AGAIN.... I share your concern with the EXCEPTION of the "yankers." If I get passed by a tanker, he is most probably EMPTY! It is my pleasure to get out of his way if I'm IN it! There are MANY on this board with WAY more years of driving than me who pull tankers, and I find them some of the safest drivers on the road. A tanker spill USUALLY makes national news. But for every ONE of those stories, a HUNDRED or more trucks crash with no news.

I like the slow lane and the fact that I'm out of the race before it ever gets started. I see more, I relax more and by default or not, I always have more time to react.

To each his own. I'm on a schedule. NOT a tight one by the company's standard, just that I only get about 4 hours at home each night if things go GOOD! Even with my desire to get home, I find that I am STRESSED less, SEE more, and have more time to REACT if I can stay one lane LEFT of the elephant train and all the danger of merging traffic. I would stress even LESS if I was an azzhole who didn't check his mirrors and CARE about the faster trucks/drivers behind me (when they ARE.) I OFTEN drive an hour or more before I even have to THINK about moving over for a faster truck. But, I am ALWAYS looking for one.

I've thought about it before. Being governed SO slow that I would be FORCED to assume your attitude. Perhaps, if I was out for weeks at a time, and plenty of time to make each run.... 10 hours (or MORE) off each night! Yeah, I MIGHT could do that. But, I would STILL not sniff truck farts.... and I would STILL move over if I could while going thru metro areas. Check those "facts." How many truck accidents that HAPPEN in the right lane HAPPEN in metro areas? I'm betting around 70%!

ALL trucks should be allowed in the far left lanes to "pass thru" metro areas! IF they can't maintain the speed of traffic (and they should be ALLOWED to,) they should move to a lane to the RIGHT! But, they should NOT be forced to stay in that dangerous RIGHT lane in areas where THAT lane represents 90% of of all "LOCAL" traffic INTERACTION!

You will ALWAYS have a small percentage of accidents caused by reckless high-speed trucks (I'm talking interstates here,) but you would ABSOLUTELY reduce the number of accidents if you took trucks OUT of the RIGHT/merging lane... and let them "pass thru" in a responsible manner.

[Windwalker]

There's a reason I never went to DEDICATED RUNS. After several dozens of runs, you've seen everything along the route, and become complacent. There's little, besides driving, to keep you alert. I"ve also found that the stereo was more of a distraction. Sort of like talking, or even texting, on the cell phone. So, with the combination of distraction and complacency, the fact that Yellow had an obstruction in front of him may not have registered in his mind. (We'll never know)

England, on the other hand, could not have been going even close to 40. Even with Yellow in a cabover, that truck was crushed. I've seen a COE rear-end another truck at a traffic light on US-30 in OH. (On the "old US-30, just east of I-75, there was a traffic light. In a line of trucks that waited for the light to turn green, one swung out to pass the loaded ones in front. Just in front of a COE that had been slowing down for the light, but when it turned green, he went into the left <opposing lane> and hammered on it. When the one swung out to pass, he could not slow down and hit it in the back doors and ended up in the field behind the church. The truck had some very serious damage, but was not shortened up like the Yellow tractor.)

With a snow-covered road, Yellow was running too fast for conditions, and it may have been due to the fact that he ran that route so many times in such a varity of conditions as to be complacent. Add XM, and ????

England was not doing 40. I'll bet on that one. With the amount of snow, he got it moving, and swung onto the roadway to pick up his speed. Of course, the troopers could check this out easily. How long were his tracks on the shoulder before impact? With those conditions, about an eighth of a mile on the shoulder before pulling out onto the road in order to get it up to that speed. There are a few "shoulda's" about England, but I do not see that as a 20 mph impact. More like about 45 or 50, or more.

The reason I say that complacency and XM may have been a serious factor is the fact that on that road, at 5 AM, there is little traffic. Even if England pulled out in front of him, at a reasonable speed, Yellow should have had time to pull out into the left lane and pass him. At that time of the morning, not likely that there was already that much traffic, that he could not have done that. Unless, the fact that another truck was in front of him did not register in his mind.

Back before I retired, whenever I was going by a truck on the shoulder, I would use the left lane if it was available. Other wise, I would slow down, often to below 40 mph. You don't know if the driver will pull out or come out from between the tractor and trialer. You do not want to hit him. Ever see a flatbed on the shoulder, adjusting his bindings? Ever see one on top of the load that lost his footing and fell off... Into the roadway? Ever see a spare tire, from a 4-wheeler on the shoulder, roll out into the road? I've had a lug-wrench cross the hiway in front of me, about windshield height. Always... ALWAYS... ALWAYS be prepared when there is something on the shoulder in front of you. I've had two little kids, just out of diapers, run out into the road in front of me from between 2 4-wheelers on the shoulder. (When I stopped, they were about 2 to 3 inches in front of my bumper) When approaching something on the shoulder of the road, look under it to see how many feet you can count, and look at the size of them. Are there any kids there?

I could be wrong, but it really does not matter if I am. They can not go back and do it over again, the right way. But, in this one, I'd say that "X" gets the square. They were both wrong, and I'm sorry Yellow won't get the chance to do it differently. But, I'd say there is enough blame to go both ways.

[Steel Horse Cowboy]

No offense taken. And just WHAT part of what I said brings you to that conclusion?

"I move right ONLY for faster trucks or LOTS of faster traffic. One or two cars? They can pass me left or right... I don't care! I am WATCHING them! Usually, I am going faster than them"Not only is this unsafe, but it is also illegal

"I cross bridges over water in the LEFT lane, because a right steer "blowout" could take me OVER THE EDGE if I were in the RIGHT lane!"
and a left steer blow will either send you over that edge or head-on into traffic killing someone else... not the "lesser-evil"

"I don't CARE what some 4wheeler behind me THINKS.... he doesn't KNOW what I know!

He's on his way to the mall, or grandma's. I'm ON THE JOB."
You state this, but then in the next line you say....
"I am the most careful, conscientious, respectful, and "attentive" driver I know of"
Which contradicts your previous statement

"who isn't scared to death of the machine he is in control of! I can drive a RIG like some people drive a CAR."
And this is just pure Billy BigRigger bull****.......

You ARE very unprofessional, and your way of thinking just proves this. I know you don't see it this way, but anyone who is a professional would not say these things.

Best of luck to ya, and I hope nothing ever happens to you and your speedy 70mph truck, but I don't see you making it your career w/o and accident due to neglagence

[golfhobo]

Steel Horse Cowboy said:

"I move right ONLY for faster trucks or LOTS of faster traffic. One or two cars? They can pass me left or right... I don't care! I am WATCHING them! Usually, I am going faster than them"

Not only is this unsafe, but it is also illegal.

It is actually NEITHER. It is not illegal to pass on the right in ANY of the states I currently drive in. Please show me otherwise. KY, TN, NC.

It is not illegal for a TRUCK to pass another vehicle, car or truck, on the right (unless posted) in any of the states I drive in. Find me a link.

When I say I am going faster than them, I don't mean I am speeding. The speed limit in the areas that I refer to, (and OVER HALF my route,) is 70. I can really only do 69 on flat land. Fact is.... MOST traffic does not CARE to go faster than me.... they just don't like being BEHIND me! I will NOT move into the slow lane to let someone who COULD have passed me in the FAST (3rd) lane that was EMPTY (or the RIGHT lane that was JUST as empty)... just so he can move up and match my speed and BOX ME IN. Half the time, they are trying to get off at the next exit.... then ... they can get behind me and move into the right lane!

Which is MORE safe? A faster truck staying in ONE LANE... the middle lane.... or diving in and out of the right lane and running up on faster and MERGING traffic all the time? You don't need to answer. I KNOW you are professional enough to know the correct answer.

"I cross bridges over water in the LEFT lane, because a right steer "blowout" could take me OVER THE EDGE if I were in the RIGHT lane!"

and a left steer blow will either send you over that edge or head-on into traffic killing someone else... not the "lesser-evil"

I DO think about a left-side blowout ALL the time. But, usually there is not that much oncoming traffic on the bridges I am talking about. AND.... it is still safer!

I don't have time to find all the videos I've seen recently of trucks hitting the median concrete barrier and STAYING in their lanes. The median barrier is USUALLY several inches (if not FEET) higher than the "fogline" barrier. Many of them wouldn't reach your AXLE heighth! You KNOW what will happen if you take a sudden dive into THAT one! You can't be sure about the middle one. It may hold you in your lane (as it is designed and proven to do.) More importantly, IF this should happen on a bridge, and you SHOULD happen to roll over,) you have MORE space (2 lanes) to wreck in without going over the edge to your death!

Someone posted a video here some time ago about WIND knocking a truck over on a bridge. He SURVIVED because he was in the "inward" lane! I used to cross such a bridge in Demmarva.... EMPTY.... during windy days! NO WAY I'm doing that in the "seaward" lane if I can help it! [The Bay Bridge FORCES truckers to stay in the right lane.]

I care as much as ANY "professional" driver about the lives of those around me! But, I also care about MINE and my co-driver in the bunk. I drive a "high profile" vehicle.... 4wheelers DO NOT.

My "practices" are based on calculations and statistics and experiences. I don't believe you can change my mind.

"I don't CARE what some 4wheeler behind me THINKS.... he doesn't KNOW what I know!

He's on his way to the mall, or grandma's. I'm ON THE JOB."

You state this, but then in the next line you say....

"I am the most careful, conscientious, respectful, and "attentive" driver I know of"

Which contradicts your previous statement

Not really. I am CONSTANTLY concerned about all vehicles around me! MOST of them (including the truckers) are ON THE PHONE or in some other way "distracted." I CARE about these other drivers, but I KNOW that they are "not on the job." I like to think that I "HELP" them make decisions that are good for them AND me! I'm sure many of them THINK that I am in their way. But, I KNOW that they have a lane LEFT of me and one RIGHT of me! They just want MY space.... and I'm not giving it up without GOOD reason! Get it?

"who isn't scared to death of the machine he is in control of! I can drive a RIG like some people drive a CAR."

And this is just pure Billy BigRigger bull****.......

Okay.... ya caught me! But there is MUCH to be said about KNOWING your truck/load and how to drive it! You've never heard the HOBO come on here and cry about hitting someone in a parking lot, couldn't BACK IN, or "it wasn't MY fault I had an accident!"

You ARE very unprofessional, and your way of thinking just proves this. I know you don't see it this way, but anyone who is a professional would not say these things.

That is strictly YOUR opinion. like I said..... the professional drivers I PASS or LET BY ME.... EVERY DAY.... seem to have a different opinion than YOURS. THEY all recognize that I know my truck, and I KNOW my surroundings. 'nuff said.

Best of luck to ya, and I hope nothing ever happens to you and your speedy 70mph truck, but I don't see you making it your career w/o an accident due to negligence.

I appreciate the wishes. And send them back! But, I have NO DOUBT I will make this my most successful career. I intend to drive my own truck LONG after I've retired. I may have been "born" to drive a truck. Who knows?

MY way of thinking has let me AVOID several accidents that I "could" have gotten caught up in so far. MOST of those I hear about, were due to practices that I "WORK" to avoid every day!

Your "opinion" of me is wrong! But, I respect your right to have it.... and I KNOW it is based on many years of GOOD (if not professional) driving! Best of luck to YOU, too.

Hobo

[Steel Horse Cowboy]

Very well said Hobo, as for the driving in the right lane, I thought you were reffering to a 2-lane stretch (of which there is plenty in KY/TN) but on the 3-lane part I don't blame you at all.

The steer tire blow-out thing is NO FUN even on flat land. I have lost 3 and all were while doing heavy haul which makes it even less fun if thats possiable LOL

Like I said, best of luck to ya. I think you deff have a better mentality than most, and just be careful out there. I was a MCI here in Indiana for 2yrs and you wouldn't believe the guys I had to piece back together after a accident that cou;ld have easily been prevented.

Keep on truckin and stay safe.

[ilikeike]

SHOCKING VIDEO! Is Hobo right? Maybe that left lane is the safer alternative . .

Tractor trailer loses control - KFOR

[AC120]

Doesn't look like the number 1 lane was the best place to be; a vehicle crossing over will cross that lane first. The people in the camera car were lucky they weren't 40 or 50feet ahead.

[golfhobo]

SHOCKING VIDEO! Is Hobo right? Maybe that left lane is the safer alternative . .

Tractor trailer loses control - KFOR

Well..... Scneider was in the MIDDLE lane, not the left lane, and he DID have an "out" and survived. However, the truck that crashed was in the far RIGHT lane on his side. Hmm..... wonder if he ran off the shoulder and over-corrected?? OR..... swerved to avoid a vehicle making a sudden, unannounced stop or turn from the right lane?

[Malaki86]

OR is/was a supertrucker that overestimated his driving skills and was driving too fast for the road conditions.

[golfhobo]

OR is/was a supertrucker that overestimated his driving skills and was driving too fast for the road conditions.

Well..... what WERE the road conditions?

Besides.... no self respecting SuperTrucker would be in the right lane!

[Malaki86]

Super-Duper Trucker - he was passing everyone from the right shoulder.

[Windwalker]

Very often, if you get off the road surface onto the shoulder of the road, you'll find some kind of ridge or ledge when trying to get back onto the road. The proper thing to do, if you have this happen (especially in winter), is to slow down before you try to get back onto the road surface. That little "ledge" may only be about 1/4 inch or so, but it's enough to keep the steer on the shoulder, even with the pavement only wet. You can feel that the truck is not responding to a slight turn of the wheel. If you maintain speed, and turn the wheel more, you end up over-steering. What you see in the video is about exactly what can happen. Once that steer "jumps" up that ledge, you've already steered beyond control. Slowing the vehicle down doesn't give it the momentum to continue across the road like that. No, I can't say that's what happened. Snow on the ground, and the road looks wet, it's also possible that there was a patch of ice the driver was not prepared for. But, I would expect that to cause a jackknife. This rig stayed in line when it went out of control. The difference in height between the road surface and the shoulder seems far more likely.