Dan Rather story on trucking.....a MUST SEE

[P A Frederick]

I just got to see the first half (with the lady Covenant driver). Only problem I see with the reporting is it seems like after her limited driving experience she was sent to Covenant orientation and put in a truck to drive herself. We all know that's not true. She had to go out with several weeks with a trainer before they cut her loose on her own. Those training procedures may not have been great, but there is a little more to her story than they tell.

I went to Schneider's training school in Green Bay in July of 05. I liked how they did the program very much. 2 weeks in Green Bay learning paperwork, backing, basic city driving, shifting, coupling/uncoupling, etc. 1 week in Gary, IN with more backing practice in more difficult situations, more driving (more interstate and city), and more advanced paperwork. By the time 3 weeks was over I felt I was ready to go with my trainer. Trainers/students only ran SOLO miles (trainer in jump seat) and student did all the backing and most of the driving. I was with him for 3 weeks before more tests and was cut loose. I feel this is a better system than 99% of companies that train use. Of course now Schneider doesn't train (and I haven't worked for them since 07).

When my dad got his CDL in the early 80's (well, he got a chauffeur's license) they sent him to the "back 40" of their lot with a single axle Ford tractor and a pup trailer for 3 days. First day another guy was out there for about 30 minutes to show him the basics, then he was on his own. End of the third day the guy from the DMV came out and set up cones and gave him his road test on the property and he was a truck driver. Sent him to work driving the next day. Almost thirty years later he has had no accidents or even "fender benders." I guess that system worked for him...

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by P A Frederick

I just got to see the first half (with the lady Covenant driver). Only problem I see with the reporting is it seems like after her limited driving experience she was sent to Covenant orientation and put in a truck to drive herself. We all know that's not true. She had to go out with several weeks with a trainer before they cut her loose on her own. Those training procedures may not have been great, but there is a little more to her story than they tell.

I went to Schneider's training school in Green Bay in July of 05. I liked how they did the program very much. 2 weeks in Green Bay learning paperwork, backing, basic city driving, shifting, coupling/uncoupling, etc. 1 week in Gary, IN with more backing practice in more difficult situations, more driving (more interstate and city), and more advanced paperwork. By the time 3 weeks was over I felt I was ready to go with my trainer. Trainers/students only ran SOLO miles (trainer in jump seat) and student did all the backing and most of the driving. I was with him for 3 weeks before more tests and was cut loose. I feel this is a better system than 99% of companies that train use. Of course now Schneider doesn't train (and I haven't worked for them since 07).

When my dad got his CDL in the early 80's (well, he got a chauffeur's license) they sent him to the "back 40" of their lot with a single axle Ford tractor and a pup trailer for 3 days. First day another guy was out there for about 30 minutes to show him the basics, then he was on his own. End of the third day the guy from the DMV came out and set up cones and gave him his road test on the property and he was a truck driver. Sent him to work driving the next day. Almost thirty years later he has had no accidents or even "fender benders." I guess that system worked for him...

I got my driving experience, working on the ranch back home in Montana, where I grew up. Started out with a 59 Chevy 10-ton farm truck, summer of 1972.
By the next summer I was learning semi's. Started out backing bull wagons up to the loading ramp at the feedlot. Once I had an idea what I was doing there, the boss took me out on the road, and got me started going forward. After getting the hand of driving the truck empty, he started me out hauling grain in a belly dump and a dry van, then hay on the flatbed.

Learning to make the turn out of the feedlot onto the county road, was freaking scarey! But I learned. And because of that....I drive far better than if I had been to a "driving school".

Of course....in the 70's...there was no such thing as a "Truck driving" school.

[belpre122]

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

Of course....in the 70's...there was no such thing as a "Truck driving" school.

Were they paying 14CPM back in the 70's Stan? Mackman and I used to get a charge from teasing one another about earning the almost unlivable, ridiculous wage of 25CPM. Heh heh. Now we've been presented with a new all time low...........14CPM! I almost fell out of the chair when I heard that one.

Memo to board newbie: At 14 cents per mile, this is a crude breakdown:

1. One week at 2500 miles X .14 = $314.00 weekly gross. (errrrrr that is before taxes.........) Try feeding the family, making the house payments, car payments etc., from that pittance. Factor in your road (living) expenses and you might as well be homeless. Actually..........you are homeless. Homeless on 18 wheels. What a friggin shame!

$314.00 X 52 (weeks) = $17,328.00 annual. For performing the most difficult and demanding job that you will ever have. Home (maybe) 4 days a month.

HUH?

[Mackman]

Gary what did i tell you about making fun of me for working for 25 cents a mile. I told you thats all the company can afford to give me I'm just doing my part to help them stay in business so i have a job.

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by belpre122

Were they paying 14CPM back in the 70's Stan? Mackman and I used to get a charge from teasing one another about earning the almost unlivable, ridiculous wage of 25CPM. Heh heh. Now we've been presented with a new all time low...........14CPM! I almost fell out of the chair when I heard that one.

Memo to board newbie: At 14 cents per mile, this is a crude breakdown:

1. One week at 2500 miles X .14 = $314.00 weekly gross. (errrrrr that is before taxes.........) Try feeding the family, making the house payments, car payments etc., from that pittance. Factor in your road (living) expenses and you might as well be homeless. Actually..........you are homeless. Homeless on 18 wheels. What a friggin shame!

$314.00 X 52 (weeks) = $17,328.00 annual. For performing the most difficult and demanding job that you will ever have. Home (maybe) 4 days a month.

HUH?

Gary...I hate to say this...but before I left the ranch, I was making $16.00 a day. The ranch also provided 1/2 a beef every 4 months, a hog every 6 months, telephone, electric, and cable tv at the family home (off ranch property).

When I left the ranch in 1979, I went to work for DOW at $1,750 a month (guaranteed), for a 50 hour work week. We got OT after 50 hours, and most weeks ran 85 to 105 hours a week.

The trucks were ITH Paystar 5000 bobtails, autocar tractor for the semis, and lot's of International 549 gas engines.


We logged under "Oilfield Exemption", so going over hours was un-heard of. If we traveled cross country at all, it was usually on United Airlines, American Airlines, Or Eastern Airlines. Some times by company plane.

I did do a lot of cross country driving....but that was usually special circumstance....and I flew to the truck. Stayed a lot at Holiday Inn, Best Western, Hilton and Sheraton.


The good old days!!!


The absolute best cross country trips, were the trips to Hawaii!! Usually got there 3 days before the equipment. Sometimes 6 days! Depended which island we were working on.

I loved the pools at the Marriot at Kaanapalli!!! Those Mai Tai's floating to you on the raft were yummy!!!

[geargrinder]

Originally Posted by belpre122

Dan Rather Reports Trucking Controversy


Anybody that has an interest in trucking should most definitely take the time to watch this video. If you are a newbie, this is an excellent introduction to what you are getting into. I'm sure that the seasoned vets around here will also enjoy this report by Dan Rather.

If this has already been posted, my bad. Actually, this report is so relevant that it probably deserves a double posting anyways................

Enjoy!
Gary

I especially enjoyed the Safety paper pusher from the ATA stating the obvious as if it was sheer genius.

FWIW, I wrote 60-Minutes a couple years ago telling them the horrors of this industry would make a great story. Natch, I highlighted the slave wage aspects of the bizz and how the Trucking Companies, DOT, FMCSA, and Congress are basically co-conspirators in maintaining our sub-standard working conditions.

[Justruckin]

Originally Posted by belpre122

Were they paying 14CPM back in the 70's Stan? Mackman and I used to get a charge from teasing one another about earning the almost unlivable, ridiculous wage of 25CPM. Heh heh. Now we've been presented with a new all time low...........14CPM! I almost fell out of the chair when I heard that one.

Memo to board newbie: At 14 cents per mile, this is a crude breakdown:

1. One week at 2500 miles X .14 = $314.00 weekly gross. (errrrrr that is before taxes.........) Try feeding the family, making the house payments, car payments etc., from that pittance. Factor in your road (living) expenses and you might as well be homeless. Actually..........you are homeless. Homeless on 18 wheels. What a friggin shame!

$314.00 X 52 (weeks) = $17,328.00 annual. For performing the most difficult and demanding job that you will ever have. Home (maybe) 4 days a month.

HUH?

Twenty years under my belt, for sh-ts and giggles I thought I would call around and see how much I was worth... 28. cents a mile is all, clean record, no accidents, etc... That was a few pennies less than what I started at 20 years ago, imagine that? Glad I got out of this racket.

[RostyC]

Originally Posted by Justruckin

Twenty years under my belt, for sh-ts and giggles I thought I would call around and see how much I was worth... 28. cents a mile is all, clean record, no accidents, etc... That was a few pennies less than what I started at 20 years ago, imagine that? Glad I got out of this racket.

Yeah but it's all the miles you want.

[VPIDarkAngel]

Originally Posted by belpre122

Memo to board newbie: At 14 cents per mile, this is a crude breakdown:

1. One week at 2500 miles X .14 = $314.00 weekly gross. (errrrrr that is before taxes.........) Try feeding the family, making the house payments, car payments etc., from that pittance. Factor in your road (living) expenses and you might as well be homeless. Actually..........you are homeless. Homeless on 18 wheels. What a friggin shame!

$314.00 X 52 (weeks) = $17,328.00 annual. For performing the most difficult and demanding job that you will ever have. Home (maybe) 4 days a month.

HUH?

If I'm not mistaken, that's what the students make while in training. At least that's what I'm gathering from it. I'd hope they make more than that on their own. I hope.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by VPIDarkAngel

If I'm not mistaken, that's what the students make while in training. At least that's what I'm gathering from it. I'd hope they make more than that on their own. I hope.

responding to Belpre's post....

Quote:
Originally Posted by belpre122
Memo to board newbie: At 14 cents per mile, this is a crude breakdown:

1. One week at 2500 miles X .14 = $314.00 weekly gross. (errrrrr that is before taxes.........) Try feeding the family, making the house payments, car payments etc., from that pittance. Factor in your road (living) expenses and you might as well be homeless. Actually..........you are homeless. Homeless on 18 wheels. What a friggin shame!

$314.00 X 52 (weeks) = $17,328.00 annual. For performing the most difficult and demanding job that you will ever have. Home (maybe) 4 days a month.

HUH?

I think Belpre is making an error in accounting here. Either that, or his first "training" company couldn't keep his TEAM running more than a solo would.

14 cents/mile is an average starting pay for a TEAM driver.... who gets that amount for EVERY MILE the truck runs that week. He drives HALF of those miles, so essentially is getting paid 28 cpm for the miles "HE" drives.

Not saying that is a great rate of pay, but it is pretty close to the national average for "starter/mega carriers." Covenant was paying 19.5 cpm for team drivers when I started 4 years ago.

Most companies will pay a solo driver a little LESS than they pay a TEAM. i.e: solo gets 28 cpm... TEAM gets to split 30 cpm.

Now... having SAID all that, and correcting Belpre's mistake, I must say that it IS possible for a newbie SOLO driver to get much LESS than the average of 2500 miles/week. Therefore, MANY of them do not make much of a paycheck while living in their trucks. (and many megas pay a set rate of about $350 for MANY weeks of training.)

This is ONE reason that I recommend TEAMING for the first year or two, while learning the biz. TEAM trucks almost HAVE to be kept running by their dispatchers, where solo drivers can be left sitting.

I'll admit that, when I got out of CDL school, I went with a TEAM company that started me at 14 cpm for ALL MILES. The "TRICK" was that I picked a company that had contracts that took EVERY truck to the west coast each week, and we brought a load of produce back. I got home EVERY week for 2 days (or more)... and got about 5500 truck miles average.

That's $770 gross from my 5th week. The first 4 weeks were considered "training" and I got only 12 cpm. I STILL made more than nearly EVERY driver on this board that went with a MEGA!

I hear the horror stories from the likes of CFM, Belpre and others. I don't doubt they are telling the truth. I just don't understand the kind of people that take what they are offered when getting into something like this.

It's like the military. One of the jobs that has the HIGHEST recruitment/staffing need is "military police." The other is "infantry/grunt." If you show up at the recruiter's office and say, "I want to join the military," they are going to put you in the field they need you in the most.... and sell you a pig in a poke that will make you think you made the right choice!

If you walk into something like this WITHOUT doing your homework and considering your options.... you deserve the crap they will feed you.

This post is NOT a comment on the video being discussed. It is only a rebuttal of Belpre's negative views. As for the video? It sounded pretty truthful to me. We ALL know what is going on out there. We ALL need to be careful and suspect of every other driver on the road.... BIG RIG or not!

But, this is why my sigline says that "trucking is not for Wusses!" I KNEW before my first day of class that I would have NO PROBLEM driving a big rig. All I needed was for someone to show me the parts and explain their functions. Give me a spin around the park to get used to the gears and that big AZZ behind me, and I WILL DO THE REST!

I don't have a problem with women like the one in the video getting INTO this biz. I just have a problem with the "polyannic naivete" of many (of both sexes) who DO! I was IMPRESSED by the way she dealt with the problem... and she appears to have "made it" as a driver! Well done lady!

And don't be swayed by the fact that Rather got this stuff from a woman. MANY men out there, in their first year, would say the same things! Many more MEN have quit before they earned the respect THIS lady got from ME!

Yes, it's dangerous out there. Too many drivers of big rigs are NOT professionals.... seasoned OR rookie. I will go so far as to say I believe that Kevin is more professional than many so-called "seasoned veterans." Being a Veteran does not guarantee being a safe driver.

But, riddle me this.... would you rather be in a truck while there are fools around you.... or in a 4wheeler? Take a "civilian job," and you will be out there among the giants and much more vulnerable. Drive a truck and you have some survivability around you... not to mention a CB so you can yell at the schmuck!

And the MORE good drivers that join the biz, the more the bad ones will be pushed out. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

The sixteen year old girl, who just got her license and is texting her best friend ever, is JUST as dangerous on the road as a newbie driver of a big rig who hasn't received the "proper" training. I'm not defending the CDL mills.... but, at some point one HAS to wonder what makes people decide to drive a rig if they are a WUSS???!!!!

[Allen Smith]

Originally Posted by belpre122

Yeah, the apologists will be arriving any time Syncro. They've been unusually quiet lately though. After that excellent piece about Swift a couple of weeks ago, then another excellently crafted objective expose like this one. They (the piece-rate OTR apologists) are really on the ropes. GMAN has been thunderously silent for a while now. I'm a bit worried about the old boy. Or perhaps, he is finally seeing the light after all of these years of disinformation. These reports remind me of CFM. All CFM ever did was espouse these same exact truths. It was just his style and uncanny method of putting the truth right up in the apologist's faces that got him banned numerous times.

I wonder how the apologists respond to this line from the video? Touche'!!

".......for every 100 new drivers hired. A recent study funded by an industry organization found an astounding 97 were no longer on the company's payroll a year later."

I love these reports from 3rd party sources that back up everything that a few of us have been bellowing for years now. I hate the fact that my fellow drivers are the ones suffering from these abuses.

Just a reminder for everyone. The Blog Talk Radio Show Follow up episode for the Dan Rather Trucking Video on CDL Schools and Companies is scheduled for Wed 11/4/09 7PM

Trucking Industry Controversy Focus of Trucking Talk Radio | AskTheTrucker

Sign up on the BTR Show link so you can join the chat room also.
Comments and questions: Call in # 347-826-9170

[jagerbomber3.0]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

responding to Belpre's post....



I think Belpre is making an error in accounting here. Either that, or his first "training" company couldn't keep his TEAM running more than a solo would.

14 cents/mile is an average starting pay for a TEAM driver.... who gets that amount for EVERY MILE the truck runs that week. He drives HALF of those miles, so essentially is getting paid 28 cpm for the miles "HE" drives.

Not saying that is a great rate of pay, but it is pretty close to the national average for "starter/mega carriers." Covenant was paying 19.5 cpm for team drivers when I started 4 years ago.

Most companies will pay a solo driver a little LESS than they pay a TEAM. i.e: solo gets 28 cpm... TEAM gets to split 30 cpm.

Now... having SAID all that, and correcting Belpre's mistake, I must say that it IS possible for a newbie SOLO driver to get much LESS than the average of 2500 miles/week. Therefore, MANY of them do not make much of a paycheck while living in their trucks. (and many megas pay a set rate of about $350 for MANY weeks of training.)

This is ONE reason that I recommend TEAMING for the first year or two, while learning the biz. TEAM trucks almost HAVE to be kept running by their dispatchers, where solo drivers can be left sitting.

I'll admit that, when I got out of CDL school, I went with a TEAM company that started me at 14 cpm for ALL MILES. The "TRICK" was that I picked a company that had contracts that took EVERY truck to the west coast each week, and we brought a load of produce back. I got home EVERY week for 2 days (or more)... and got about 5500 truck miles average.

That's $770 gross from my 5th week. The first 4 weeks were considered "training" and I got only 12 cpm. I STILL made more than nearly EVERY driver on this board that went with a MEGA!

I hear the horror stories from the likes of CFM, Belpre and others. I don't doubt they are telling the truth. I just don't understand the kind of people that take what they are offered when getting into something like this.

It's like the military. One of the jobs that has the HIGHEST recruitment/staffing need is "military police." The other is "infantry/grunt." If you show up at the recruiter's office and say, "I want to join the military," they are going to put you in the field they need you in the most.... and sell you a pig in a poke that will make you think you made the right choice!

If you walk into something like this WITHOUT doing your homework and considering your options.... you deserve the crap they will feed you.

This post is NOT a comment on the video being discussed. It is only a rebuttal of Belpre's negative views. As for the video? It sounded pretty truthful to me. We ALL know what is going on out there. We ALL need to be careful and suspect of every other driver on the road.... BIG RIG or not!

But, this is why my sigline says that "trucking is not for Wusses!" I KNEW before my first day of class that I would have NO PROBLEM driving a big rig. All I needed was for someone to show me the parts and explain their functions. Give me a spin around the park to get used to the gears and that big AZZ behind me, and I WILL DO THE REST!

I don't have a problem with women like the one in the video getting INTO this biz. I just have a problem with the "polyannic naivete" of many (of both sexes) who DO! I was IMPRESSED by the way she dealt with the problem... and she appears to have "made it" as a driver! Well done lady!

And don't be swayed by the fact that Rather got this stuff from a woman. MANY men out there, in their first year, would say the same things! Many more MEN have quit before they earned the respect THIS lady got from ME!

Yes, it's dangerous out there. Too many drivers of big rigs are NOT professionals.... seasoned OR rookie. I will go so far as to say I believe that Kevin is more professional than many so-called "seasoned veterans." Being a Veteran does not guarantee being a safe driver.

But, riddle me this.... would you rather be in a truck while there are fools around you.... or in a 4wheeler? Take a "civilian job," and you will be out there among the giants and much more vulnerable. Drive a truck and you have some survivability around you... not to mention a CB so you can yell at the schmuck!

And the MORE good drivers that join the biz, the more the bad ones will be pushed out. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

The sixteen year old girl, who just got her license and is texting her best friend ever, is JUST as dangerous on the road as a newbie driver of a big rig who hasn't received the "proper" training. I'm not defending the CDL mills.... but, at some point one HAS to wonder what makes people decide to drive a rig if they are a WUSS???!!!!

When I went out with my trainer my pay was .15 per mile.....But that was for ever mile the truck was moving. I actually made out pretty well because my trainer had a high mileage dedicated run and when i got out of his truck and into mine a couple of weeks later my pay per mile doubled. A lot of companies pay that split half pay during training but you get it even when you are not the one driving. It's not the best deal in the world but it's not the complete rip off its made out to sound like.I was making more money on that .15 per mile that you get on the flat pay per week that some companies pay out while you are training. i know some places pay you a flat rate of like $300-$350 per week while you are in the truck. I made out better than that.

[jagerbomber3.0]

Originally Posted by Justruckin

Twenty years under my belt, for sh-ts and giggles I thought I would call around and see how much I was worth... 28. cents a mile is all, clean record, no accidents, etc... That was a few pennies less than what I started at 20 years ago, imagine that? Glad I got out of this racket.

Damn, i got .40 per mile after only 2 years on the road a couple years back....you must have called the cheapest of the cheap.

[jd112488]

belpre painted the worst case scenario to TRY to prove his point that all otr and mega carriers suck. one thing he failed to do was mentioned in golf hobos post. what belpre also missed was the fact that training last six to eight weeks, then your pay goes up when you get your own truck..that pay is usually substantially higher than that of training pay. so, if he were actually trying to help people, he would post honest truthful numbers that would actually reflect the first year earnings of a newbie truck driver. i would do it but i just dont feel like doing the math..to be perfectly honest. what belpre also has failed repeatedly to realize that HE would not do that job for that pay, this does not mean that it is a bad job, just one that he would not do. what the newbies reading this need to realize is that you gotta start somewhere..we all did including belpre and his star crossed lover cfm. they started with a starter company, they didnt like it and they moved on. i started with tmc years ago, i HATED it...but i got through it and moved on to something different, and it took me quite some time to get where i am now. just as it did with belpre.

and on a side note i dont think belpre moved to alaska, as he would claim with the photos. i think he moved to boston and married cfm!!!!

[allan5oh]

Reading up on this, makes me very happy on the route I took. Went to school at 21 for 4 weeks, got my CDL and slack adjuster endorsement. Went with my dad for 3 months, he had to be in the passenger seat while I'm driving and help me back up. After that I just bought my own damn truck. So that's 4 months of someone being in the jump seat. Although we never went far, I did get enough experience to go out on my own. I'd say 2-4 months is the minimum to have someone in the jump seat. And a "trainer" shouldn't have less than 5 years of experience. And they shouldn't run team.

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by allan5oh

Reading up on this, makes me very happy on the route I took. Went to school at 21 for 4 weeks, got my CDL and slack adjuster endorsement. Went with my dad for 3 months, he had to be in the passenger seat while I'm driving and help me back up. After that I just bought my own damn truck. So that's 4 months of someone being in the jump seat. Although we never went far, I did get enough experience to go out on my own. I'd say 2-4 months is the minimum to have someone in the jump seat. And a "trainer" shouldn't have less than 5 years of experience. And they shouldn't run team.

X 2
There are far too many situations that these new drivers run into, that they are not prepared for in any sense. The vast majority of them find out what questions they should have asked of their instructors and trainers... when they learn the answers to the questions themselves.

It's rather like graduating high school. You are told you are ready to go out and meet the world. But to light the world on fire, it will take far more education. The training the new drivers get, on the over-all average, is far below what they should be getting in order to be ready for the real world.

[cdswans]

He'll be on again Tuesday night, focus on trucking with a different storyline/format . . the show was recorded tonight at Willy Nelson's place in Carl's Corner, TX. I'm pretty sure they said 8PM, EST, but check this link to be sure . .

HDNet Original Programming - Dan Rather Reports

The only response I got to the info I sent was the link to this show . . I don't know if they'll get into the drivers exemtion to FLSA overtime and CPM fraud but I sure hope they do.

Please, if you read this post, post a reply and bump it to the top so more people will see it . . Thanks!