tax writeoffs

[franwake13]

hey whats up? i know tax season is a little far away but im wondering how tax writeoffs work, i know you get soo much perday and all but what about everything else. like i am keeping all scale reciepts and all even tho swift reembursts me... gov dont need to know that, i have saved receipts for everything down to the polos i keep in my truck for uniforms and batteries for my flashlights, how about you guys? im thinking im gonna get a good return this year, anyone have any examples? im a company driver with the great company with the blue and gold "S"........ best in class lol



----frank----

[1TruckDrivinSunUvAGun]

Well if you opted out for company per diem then you don't get to write anything off. Unless your a O/O or L/P there is very little you can write off as a company driver, especially if your company reimburses you for most expenses.

[Jumbo]

Very little? Check again.

[1TruckDrivinSunUvAGun]

I said if you opt out for company per diem there is very little to write off, if not then you can write everything off. If your a company driver you can write off meals, tools, showers, logs, maps, accessories, scales, tolls. As a company driver you don't get to write off the same things a O/O gets to since the company provides everything and a per diem everyday. I'm sure you can find a sleazy accountant that will have you writing off that $500 GPS and that new TV but if you get audited then good luck to you, better save those logs and receipts. My accountant said they're pretty strict with company drivers anymore, no different than a regular traveling employee.

[repete]

Well if you opted out for company per diem then you don't get to write anything off. Unless your a O/O or L/P there is very little you can write off as a company driver, especially if your company reimburses you for most expenses.

If you believe that you really need an accountent that knows TRUCKING!
You can deduct just about everything you spend on the road or on the truck, Toss the scale tickets, no sense in sending up a red flag. Stick with the real/legal stuff. Ex. per deim ( The big one!) 85% of $52 a day
gloves boots work clothes tools battiers lights hotels Faxing calling cards ect. I think there cutting back on the cell phone use so be carefull there. Sorry but your meals fall under the per deim so can't claim them twice.

[repete]

I said if you opt out for company per diem there is very little to write off, if not then you can write everything off. If your a company driver you can write off meals, tools, showers, logs, maps, accessories, scales, tolls. As a company driver you don't get to write off the same things a O/O gets to since the company provides everything and a per diem everyday. I'm sure you can find a sleazy accountant that will have you writing off that $500 GPS and that new TV but if you get audited then good luck to you, better save those logs and receipts. My accountant said they're pretty strict with company drivers anymore, no different than a regular traveling employee.

You can deduct that $500 GPS and your tv and your XM and alot more. I think you need to check with a GOOD tax firm that know's trucking

FORGET H R Block and the other cookie cutter tax places!

[1TruckDrivinSunUvAGun]

If you believe that you really need an accountent that knows TRUCKING!
You can deduct just about everything you spend on the road or on the truck, Toss the scale tickets, no sense in sending up a red flag. Stick with the real/legal stuff. Ex. per deim ( The big one!) 85% of $52 a day
gloves boots work clothes tools battiers lights hotels Faxing calling cards ect. I think there cutting back on the cell phone use so be carefull there. Sorry but your meals fall under the per deim so can't claim them twice.

I do have a trucking accountant, like I said if you get a per diem you get to claim the essentials for doing your job, cell phones are done anymore. You can't go writing off everything in the world as a company driver with a per diem, if you do get audited have fun explaining all your expenses. My friend over at Knight Transportation was just audited and was told he couldn't write off meals, phone, hotels, scales, tolls, logs, boots, etc. They told him only what was required by the company and wasn't provided could be written off, since he chose their per diem option. You can write off anything but justifying it in case of an audit is another thing. Not calling you a liar just going by what I was told.

[Rev.Vassago]

I do have a trucking accountant, like I said if you get a per diem you get to claim the essentials for doing your job, cell phones are done anymore. You can't go writing off everything in the world as a company driver with a per diem, if you do get audited have fun explaining all your expenses. My friend over at Knight Transportation was just audited and was told he couldn't write off meals, phone, hotels, scales, tolls, logs, boots, etc. They told him only what was required by the company and wasn't provided could be written off, since he chose their per diem option. You can write off anything but justifying it in case of an audit is another thing. Not calling you a liar just going by what I was told.

Wow. Seriously, this is completely and utterly wrong. Meals are deductible (the last round of changes in 2008, it went to $52 per day at 80%), as well as hotels, scales, tolls, supplies, work-specific clothing, communications, etc. The only thing that company-paid per diem does is add untaxed revenue to your income. You still take the deductions the same way you would if you weren't receiving the per diem.

See IRS publication 463 for more information on the meal allowance, as well as what items are deductible when traveling away from home.

Whoever told you this stuff doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.

[1TruckDrivinSunUvAGun]

I called my friend Aaron over at Knight, the reason he got nailed was because he didn't save his logs and certain receipts for the past 3 years and wrote everything off. So in other words he had no proof he was on the road at those times. Just gotta save those things in case the tax man comes calling. Don't get me wrong, I write everything off within reason every year.

[SickRick]

I called my friend Aaron over at Knight, the reason he got nailed was because he didn't save his logs and certain receipts for the past 3 years and wrote everything off. So in other words he had no proof he was on the road at those times. Just gotta save those things in case the tax man comes calling. Don't get me wrong, I write everything off within reason every year.

Just because you don't have to CARRY the logs/receipts doesn't mean you shouldn't SAVE THEM. Your Uncle (ok - COMRADE) Sam can go back current year + 6 (7 year statute of limitations). Save EVERYTHING - if you're not computer savvy and have a scanner - make a zip-lock freezer baggie, write the month and year on it with a sharpie and throw EVERYTHING IN IT (including logs).

It's all about WHAT YOU CAN PROVE.

You'd be AMAZED what you can write off - as long as you can PROVE IT...

Rick

[Rev.Vassago]

One deduction that I see truckers miss a lot is ATM fees. ALWAYS get your receipt, and save it. You can deduct all those fees they tack onto the ATM at the end of the year.

[GMAN]

A good reason to use a debit or credit card for all purchases on the road is that it created a good record of your expenses along with the dates. Some cards give you a summary at the end of the year for tax purposes. You can also use a spreadsheet or get some trucking specific software to help track all of your road expenses. You can put your expenses into the system weekly or daily and everything will be well organized. I put all of my receipts in an envelope after each run. That way it keeps everything together should I get audited. And I would not suggest you deduct anything that you are not legally entitled. You are only asking for trouble. The IRS has decided to scrutinize those in this industry more carefully according to one lady I spoke with about a year ago at the IRS office. You might want to go by and speak with them. Some of them can be quite helpful.

[VitoCorleone99]

Per diem pay absolutely does reduce the amount that you can deduct. The money is tax-free precisely because it is considered a reimbursement of expenses, rather than income, under the tax code. Reimbursed expenses are not deductible by the employee. (Good luck submitting those scale tickets that your employer already claimed, BTW.)

Essentially, you figure the deductions as if you never received per diem pay and then reduce that amount by any per diem pay that you received.

Example 3.
Nicole drives 10,000 miles in 2008 for business (4,500 miles from January 1 through June 30 and 5,500 miles from July 1 through December 31). Under her employer's accountable plan, she accounts for the time (dates), place, and business purpose of each trip. Her employer pays her a mileage allowance of 40 cents a mile.


Since Nicole's $5,491 expense computed under the standard mileage rate (4,500 miles × 50½ cents + 5,500 miles × 58½ cents) is more than her $4,000 reimbursement (10,000 miles × 40 cents), she itemizes her deductions to claim the excess expense. Nicole completes Form 2106 (showing all of her expenses and reimbursements) and enters $1,491 ($5,491 − $4,000) as an itemized deduction

We generally deal in either actual expenses (for incidentals) or a daily rate (80% of $52 for meals), rather than the "standard mileage rate" in this example, but the same process is followed.

[Rev.Vassago]

Per diem pay absolutely does reduce the amount that you can deduct

Who said it didn't?

[VitoCorleone99]

Who said it didn't?

The only thing that company-paid per diem does is add untaxed revenue to your income. You still take the deductions the same way you would if you weren't receiving the per diem.

You yourself may have understood that, after taking the deductions "the same way you would," you then have to adjust downward for per diem pay. Your reply however, especially when directed to someone who is clearly clueless about the whole process, seemed to indicate that he could have his cake and eat it too.

[Rev.Vassago]

You yourself may have understood that, after taking the deductions "the same way you would," you then have to adjust downward for per diem pay. Your reply however, especially when directed to someone who is clearly clueless about the whole process, seemed to indicate that he could have his cake and eat it too.

Since the per diem pay shows up on ones' W2 on line 1 as wages, tips, or other compensation, it's kind of hard for them to "have their cake and eat it too." The income tax withheld on line 2 will be less for someone receiving a portion of their pay as per diem pay in relation to what appears on line 1 than someone who is not receiving per diem pay.

[VitoCorleone99]

Since the per diem pay shows up on ones' W2 on line 1 as wages, tips, or other compensation, it's kind of hard for them to "have their cake and eat it too." The income tax withheld on line 2 will be less for someone receiving a portion of their pay as per diem pay in relation to what appears on line 1 than someone who is not receiving per diem pay.

Per diem pay is a reimbursement of expenses, not income. Not wages, tips, or other compensation, not taxable income, not anything. It reduces the amount that you can take as a deduction because it has already been effectively deducted (by never having been "earned" in the first place.) It doesn't appear on your W-2 at all unless the reimbursement was excessive, in which case only the excess goes on Line 1. Most plans give the employee an amount less than the allowable deductions would have been, so there is no excess to report. If you take the deductions "the same way you would if you weren't receiving the per diem," then you will be double dipping. In essence, you're trying to deduct expenses for which you have been reimbursed. That's illegal.

The years go by and you still have this one wrong. You're on the right track in referring to Publication 463, at least.



If you have $17,000 in deductions and you get $10,000 in per diem pay, then you can deduct $7,000.

If you have $10,000 in deductions and you get $10,000 in per diem pay, then you can't deduct anything.

If you have $10,000 in deductions and you get $12,000 in per diem pay, then you have to repay the excess $2,000 to your employer. If you don't repay the excess $2,000, your employer has to report it on Line 1 as income and you can't deduct anything. (Your employer probably has no realistic way of knowing what your deductions would be, so you had better make sure you find at least enough in deductions to justify your per diem pay. The IRS has been scrutinizing these types of plans pretty closely in recent years and these types of excess reimbursements are a target.)

I'm not getting into another month-long debate on the subject, so I'll just suggest to the original poster that he not take anything on this message board as anything more than chatter on a message board. "Some guy on the internet told me I could" would make a lousy defense in the case of an audit.

[Rev.Vassago]

You're quoting the wrong one. The one you have the yellow box around is for employers who require the excess to be returned. Since most employers pay $52 per day in per diem, which is higher than the federally allowed amount of 80% of $52 per day, the excess would be reported in box 1, and the amount up to the federal rate would be reported in box 12. The last scenario on that table is the one that applies.

If you have $10,000 in deductions and you get $12,000 in per diem pay, then you have to repay the excess $2,000 to your employer. If you don't repay the excess $2,000, your employer has to report it on Line 1 as income and you can't deduct anything. (Your employer probably has no realistic way of knowing what your deductions would be, so you had better make sure you find at least enough in deductions to justify your per diem pay. The IRS has been scrutinizing these types of plans pretty closely in recent years and these types of excess reimbursements are a target.)

Your employer knows exactly what your deduction is. It's 80% of $52, or $41.60 per day. Since they are over paying by $11.40 per day, that $11.40 should be appearing in box 1, and the $41.60 should be in box 12. What deductions you have above and beyond the meal expense allowance have no bearing on your employer at all (unless they also reimbursed you for them).

That's the whole reason employers offer (and many times require) per diem. It allows them to "borrow" and overdeduct your meal allowance. They write off $52, but you can only write off $41.60. That's extra money they don't have to pay employment taxes on. They shift the burden of the taxes to the employee. In many cases, the employee thinks (and are being sold) they are getting this tax free money. In reality, they are getting untaxed wages that they will eventually have to pay taxes on. The employer is the only one who wins.

Why the IRS does the 80% of $52 garbage is beyond me. If the deduction is $41.60, then say the deduction is $41.60.

[VitoCorleone99]

"Up to the federal rate" is not a complicated phrase...

The federal rate. The federal rate can be figured using any one of the following methods.

1. For per diem amounts:
   1. The regular federal per diem rate.
   2. The standard meal allowance.
   3. The high-low rate.
2. For car expenses:
   1. The standard mileage rate.
   2. A fixed and variable rate (FAVR)
      
      For per diem amounts, use the rate in effect for the area where you stop for sleep or rest. Regular federal per diem rate. The regular federal per diem rate is the highest amount that the federal government will pay to its employees for lodging, meals, and incidental expenses (or meals and incidental expenses only) while they are traveling away from home in a particular area. The rates are different for different locations. Your employer should have these rates available. (Employers can get Publication 1542, which gives the rates in the continental United States for the current year. Publication 1542 is available on the Internet at www.irs.gov.)

Tables 3&4 of Publication 1542 have a boatload of different rates for different localities, anywhere from $39 to $64. We don't tend to use those, but we could. Or, under high/low (Tables 1&2), the rates would be $45 and $58. We don't tend to use those either, but we could. We tend to use the middle option, the standard meal allowance, which also can have a great number of variables, since it uses the same Tables 3&4.

Amount of standard meal allowance. The standard meal allowance is the federal M&IE rate. For travel in 2008, the rate for most small localities in the United States is $39 a day from January 1, 2008, through December 31, 2008. Most major cities and many other localities in the United States are designated as high-cost areas, qualifying for higher standard meal allowances. These rates are listed in Publication 1542, which is available on the Internet at www.irs.gov.

(Note once again - "The federal M&IE rate," not 80% of the federal M&IE rate.) If we prefer not to use the tables for this method, we can (as in, have the option to) take out most variables by using a single standardized rate. This is what most of us tend to do and this is where the $52 figure shows up.

Special rate for transportation workers. You can use a special standard meal allowance if you work in the transportation industry. You are in the transportation industry if your work:

• Directly involves moving people or goods by airplane, barge, bus, ship, train, or truck, and
• Regularly requires you to travel away from home and, during any single trip, usually involves travel to areas eligible for different standard meal allowance rates.

If this applies to you, you can claim a standard meal allowance of $52 a day ($58 for travel outside the continental United States) from January 1, 2008, through December 31, 2008. Using the special rate for transportation workers eliminates the need for you to determine the standard meal allowance for every area where you stop for sleep or rest. If you choose to use the special rate for any trip, you must use the special rate (and not use the regular standard meal allowance rates) for all trips you take that year.

"Standard meal allowance of $52 a day," in plain English. No mention of 80% of $52 a day. Why? Because the 50% rule only applies to expenses being deducted. You can't deduct any expenses that have already been reimbursed (aka "have your cake and eat it too"), and per diem pay is a method of reimbursement.

Your employer knows exactly what your deduction is. It's 80% of $52, or $41.60 per day. Since they are over paying by $11.40 per day, that $11.40 should be appearing in box 1, and the $41.60 should be in box 12. What deductions you have above and beyond the meal expense allowance have no bearing on your employer at all (unless they also reimbursed you for them).

If they give me 10 cents a mile in per diem pay, then I can drive 520 miles a day before exceeding the federal rate. Maybe I drive 600 miles a day Monday-Friday and take weekends off at home. Then I've been overpaid by $8 a day and I'm required to repay the difference. Nothing goes on my W-2 if I repay the money, but $8 per day goes in Box 1 and $52 per day goes in Box 12, code L if I fail to repay it...

Allowance more than the federal rate. If your allowance is more than the federal rate, your employer must include the allowance amount up to the federal rate in box 12 of your Form W-2. This amount is not taxable. However, the excess allowance will be included in box 1 of your Form W-2. You must report this part of your allowance as if it were wage income.

Maybe they pay me $52 a day but I spend most of my nights in high cost areas where the federal rate is more than $52. Then none of my per diem pay has to be reported anywhere on my W-2 and I can still deduct the difference. This is the very straightforward part of the publication that you apparently refuse to acknowledge...

Allowance less than or equal to the federal rate. If your allowance is less than or equal to the federal rate, the allowance will not be included in box 1 of your Form W-2. You do not need to report the related expenses or the allowance on your return if your expenses are equal to or less than the allowance. However, if your actual expenses are more than your allowance, you can complete Form 2106 and deduct the excess amount on Schedule A (Form 1040). If you are using actual expenses, you must be able to prove to the IRS the total amount of your expenses and reimbursements for the entire year. If you are using the standard meal allowance or the standard mileage rate, you do not have to prove that amount.

Maybe they pay me $26 a day but I only spend half my days away from home. At the end of the year, it looks like I had my allowable $52 per day. Technically though, I should be taxed on the full $26 for days that I wasn't on the road. I would also have a deduction for the excess $15.60 ($52 x 80% = $41.60 allowed, then reduced by the $26 that I already got) in expenses for days that I was on the road.

Example. Your employer sends you on a 5-day business trip to Phoenix in March 2008 and gives you a $400 ($80 × 5 days) advance to cover your meals and incidental expenses. The federal per diem for meals and incidental expenses for Phoenix is $59. Your trip lasts only 3 days. Under your employer's accountable plan, you must return the $160 ($80 × 2 days) advance for the 2 days you did not travel. For the 3 days you did travel you do not have to return the $63 difference between the allowance you received and the federal rate for Phoenix (($80 − $59) × 3 days). However, the $63 will be reported on your Form W-2 as wages.

Companies get into trouble when they routinely overpay people and have no mechanism in place to track or recover the overpayments. Since only an amount up to the federal rate can be considered as substantiated by the per diem method, you would have to provide actual receipts to justify higher amounts. When they have no receipts to justify the overpayments and no consistent method for recovering overpayments, the plan is nonaccountable and every dollar, not just the excess, is 100% taxable as income.

[GMAN]

Life would be so much simpler if we went to a flat tax with no deductions. Perhaps a 5% tax would be good.