If you actually care....read this...

[Skywalker]

I have seen on our bulletin boards in our terminals ....that as of May 11, 2009, the USDOT will be using GPS data from OBCR data to audit logbooks.

So it appears that the USDOT is going to compare your GPS input from your OBC against your logbooks to define whether or not you are running legal....

Best be safe than paying fines.....

[Rev.Vassago]

This is old news. Many companies who use Qualcomm already do this.

[Uturn2001]

It has been what...at least a year now since they changed the rules and no longer have to get a court order for things like Qualcomm records.

[Skywalker]

Ahhhh, but prior to this....they were not doing so. Apparently they have decide to do this, and it will become fully active as of 05/11.

I am thinking that companies may be required to "ping" their trucks more than once every hour....

I noticed that the other day....even though I had my tank washed out after a HM load, that at 0530.....while I was in the sleeper berth....my geologic screen "lit up"....after the truck had been shut down (engine off 9+hrs)....so I can only presume that I was "pinged".....

While some might claim its nothing new....it really is, because they will now be using GPS coordinates to validate the logbooks......... whoo-hooooo. Should be fun.....


Where's my "tinfoil hat".......

[Skywalker]

This is old news. Many companies who use Qualcomm already do this.

Rev..... With all respect to you and your knowledge...we are not talking about the "companies".....we are talking about the the USDOT and its "subordinates".....

Its a different set of parameters, or a different "paradigm" if you please....

[Double R]

Ahhhh, but prior to this....they were not doing so. Apparently they have decide to do this, and it will become fully active as of 05/11.

I am thinking that companies may be required to "ping" their trucks more than once every hour....

I noticed that the other day....even though I had my tank washed out after a HM load, that at 0530.....while I was in the sleeper berth....my geologic screen "lit up"....after the truck had been shut down (engine off 9+hrs)....so I can only presume that I was "pinged".....

While some might claim its nothing new....it really is, because they will now be using GPS coordinates to validate the logbooks......... whoo-hooooo. Should be fun.....


Where's my "tinfoil hat".......

Your right, this will be fun. Especially when my "PEOPLE NET" shows me in MIDDLESEX TOWNSHIP,PA and both my log and fuel receipt say CARLISLE,PA.

The Pilot, Petro, and Flying J actually sit in Middlesex Township,PA.

[Skywalker]

DoubleR... You're right it will be interesting once they start doing it....there are any number of discrepancies that will pop up....and one has to wonder what the time variation is that they will allow.... Those of us that know....due to reality, that the best you can do is 15 mins +/- on paper....so it remains to be seen what standard will be used...................

And in the meantime ...we get blamed for everything between the lack of taste in Wrigley's chewing gum and the the inefficiency of Cuba's government......

[Double R]

DoubleR... You're right it will be interesting once they start doing it....there are any number of discrepancies that will pop up....and one has to wonder what the time variation is that they will allow.... Those of us that know....due to reality, that the best you can do is 15 mins +/- on paper....so it remains to be seen what standard will be used...................

And in the meantime ...we get blamed for everything between the lack of taste in Wrigley's chewing gum and the the inefficiency of Cuba's government......

Agree. And now that I have to use a log book again since I travel pass 100 air miles(in a day cab), I just write down what is on the "PEOPLE NET" screen.
People Net is cell tower based, so the nearest tower could be as far as 9 miles from you(That's the furthest I have see so far) . Lets see how long it takes safety to catch on.

[Skywalker]

Agree. And now that I have to use a log book again since I travel pass 100 air miles(in a day cab), I just write down what is on the "PEOPLE NET" screen.
People Net is cell tower based, so the nearest tower could be as far as 9 miles from you(That's the furthest I have see so far) . Lets see how long it takes safety to catch on.

\

Yep...its amazing.....and some companies are going to find out that is "NOT business as usual"....and compliance is gonna be the name of then game....

I think its gonna be like an "inadvertant" restructurant of the realm......

[Pack_Rat]

Sure glad we do not use qualcom or any other tracking device!!!!

[wsyrob]

Sure glad we do not use qualcom or any other tracking device!!!!

If you carry a cell phone and have it on while you drive you can be tracked. Have a wreck and those records will be used against you.

[matcat]

Sure glad we do not use qualcom or any other tracking device!!!!

Me either, YAY! But I do hope you all realize just about ANY late modal truck has GPS system in it. This Volvo I drive, even though owned by an owner op, that he bought from a dealership, and it is an 04, has a GPS tracking device in it which the financing company has access to to track the truck down should he ever default. Now I do not know if this is accessible by USDOT though, or if it even logs any data other then when asked for it like how onstar works (It doesn't report location unless you initiate a connection to the system, or OnStar initiates a connection, which they do unless there is a reason such as calling and saying your car is lost or stolen).

Quite honestly, this is a BIG intrusion into privacy. Any system that can be abused, will be abused, now we have the government tracking the majority of the trucks on the road under the guise of compliance of HOS regulations.

Also of note is that though GPS technology has come a long way in the last 20 years, it still has issues. Though it is rare, the government does shutdown the satellites from time to time, or limit them, for purposes of maintenance, realignment, and military exercises, and they usually do it with little to know warning. Also solar flare activity can and does interfere, as well as natural magnetic field activity, and man made interference.

You don't always notice these anomalies while driving down the road simply because consumer GPS devices such as navigation systems, use special subroutines to guesstimate actual location when a signal is not as it should be, but that requires the GPS to be on and tracking for a time period to have the proper data to do that. If you just processed raw GPS signals and had it represented on a map, it would be bouncing all over the place within a 1 mile radius of where you are really sitting, and if any of the above mentioned anomalies are going on, that bounce can go as far as a couple hundred miles!

I know this because I have done programming with GPS systems before, and I had to learn how to code the subroutines that 'stabilize' the signal to give more accurate result. So the real problem here, is if the location is only being recorded every 'x' amount of minutes, the GPS is not 'stabilized' and can give very erratic results. Even if it was say every 15 minutes, it will still usually be accurate to within about 20 feet, BUT you will get those anomalies from time to time that will show you being 200 miles away from where you are, which I would venture to say could happen probably every 100 'pings' or so, but that could vary widely based on where you are, solar flare conditions, etc.

Honestly I do not forsee too many issues with accuracy, but they will occur.

[matcat]

If you carry a cell phone and have it on while you drive you can be tracked. Have a wreck and those records will be used against you.

Cell phone tracking is an iffy subject, unless you have location turned on (all phones have this option, it is required by federal law), the network has no access to the phones GPS tracking unless you are connected to a 911 center, and no records are kept. However cell tower triangulation is constant, BUT it is very inaccurate for location, and cannot give speed data at all.

[wsyrob]

Cell phone tracking is an iffy subject, unless you have location turned on (all phones have this option, it is required by federal law), the network has no access to the phones GPS tracking unless you are connected to a 911 center, and no records are kept. However cell tower triangulation is constant, BUT it is very inaccurate for location, and cannot give speed data at all.

True but it sure could screw up the double log book/phantom team driver types that were several hundred miles away from where they said they took a break.

[GMAN]

Just wait until they get the EOBR's. If successful we will all need to buy these recorders so we can be tracked. Big brother at work.

[zipy46]

Our safety dept reminds of this every now and then.

Our dispatch/planning dept also has a electronic map that looks sort of like air traffic control,

It shows where you are,

...if you are running on time...and will trigger a 14 clock if you move the truck more than 1500 feet.

Oddly enough...if it comes down to a service failure...or the 14 clock...
they have been known to 'overlook' the clock.

Go figure

[Windwalker]

Just wait until they get the EOBR's. If successful we will all need to buy these recorders so we can be tracked. Big brother at work.

I'm simply going to put in for my retirement and let the rest of you worry about it.

[wsyrob]

Oddly enough...if it comes down to a service failure...or the 14 clock...
they have been known to 'overlook' the clock.

Go figure

It boils down to a bottom line business decision for companies. Given the choice between losing a multimillion dollar customer and a $30,000 DOT fine coming out of a log audit, they will choose the fine every time. That doesn't mean they won't hang the driver out to dry if they get caught.

[zipy46]

Its a pisser...

I used to show up here at the board ranting about forcing these companies to play straight pool
and run their drivers legal so we would not be framed to take the fall for them...

All my wishes have backfired...!

This legal pressure has simply taken the definition of 'Forced Dispatch' to a new level.

Where I work for example you have basically relinquished your log book to the planners...

You run when they say you run...7 times out of 10 its on little sleep and running all night and into the morning.

...be careful what one wishes for they told me when i was little

[zipy46]

The secret to trucking is being able to sleep in the day like one of those creatures

you see on Wild Kingdom