Yayyy, team training... Hooray....

[Windwalker]

I've never made it any kind of secret that I do not like Pilot. And, NO... I will not dignify them by calling them a truck stop. However, if I have no choice at all, I will pull into one for about 50 gallons of fuel to get me to my regular fuel stop. So, there are as many months between my stops at a Pilot as I can possibly manage.

Well, do to cercumstances I could not plan for, I had less than an eighth tank of fuel, and had to stop into a Pilot. In the next fuel island, a younger man was fueling his truck with a great deal of enthusiasm. Yeah, he's really getting the feel of driving a truck. His trainer is sleeping, and when it's time to change drivers, the truck will be ready to roll. I asked him how long he's been driving and was told that he was just assigned a trainer last saturday... This was Thursday... Less than a week. He's driving and his trainer is sleeping. I was tempted to bang on the sleeper, then thought better of it.

When he was done fueling, he climbed into the truck, started it, and started to pull out. Then, I noticed that as soon as the tractor cleared the fuel island, he cranked the wheel to the left...

You know those "D" shaped concrete pillars they have for you to drive between to fuel up? I always thought they were just set through the blacktop... They're not.... Must be set 6 or 8 feet into the ground.

The BOOM, like a mortar round going off, blew me off my feet and I went face down onto the pavement. The outside dual on the front trailer axle caught the "D" shaped pillar, blew the tire, and wrapped the rim back over the lugnuts. It also stopped the truck in it's tracks. There's not much doubt that if the trainer didn't wake up, he was now seeing how comfortable the floor was. He certainly did not stay in the bunk.

The guy was out of the truck and walking back to see what he did, and the trainer made an appearance at the door with t-shirt and shorts on... I didn't have to get any closer to see that the axle was bent, the suspension was also bent and broken, and the main body of the axle was no longer parallel to the rear one. The inner dual was up against the tire on the rear axle.

In our earlier conversation, the guy had said they were about 15 minutes from their delivery, and they still had 2 hours before their appointment time. But, an hour and a half later, when I was passing by again, in the other direction, they were parked in the lot, the trainer at the wheel, and talking on the cell phone. The company, which by the way was not Swift, didn't make any money on that load.

Hooray for TEAM TRAINING... By all means, put the trainee behind the wheel, unsupervised, and go to sleep. More miles, more money for the trainer. Wonder if they both lost their jobs.

I have no idea how many times, while training, I had to tell my trainee that she could not turn the wheel so soon, and had to wait so that the trailer would not hit anything. And, it wasn't just the first week of driving either. There were times into the third week that I had to remind them about turning too soon. I've also seen where a driver turned too soon, coming out of a truck stop, and dropped a side of the trailer into the ditch, missing the driveway completely. The Petro, at Milton, PA has guard rail on both sides. The one on the right, as you're coming out, wasn't showing any age when it was already modified by someone coming out and turning too soon. No, I don't know that it was someone's trainee, but I might be willing to bet it was.

[Biscuit Lips]

Did you get any pics.?

[repete]

Don't ya just love it! Ya never know the trainer might have had just 9 mo. exp!

[Kevin0915]

It was not Swift? amazing. LOL. When i first started schooling, and got to the third week of on-road training, i knew then........I HAVE A BIG ASS !!!!!! (and no...i'm not talking about my real ass) If you are a student driver, and you made it to a mentor's truck, you had better be able to pull straight thru a fuel island without hitting anything. If you can't, i'd stick to delivering pizza.

There has only been ONCE where I came close to taking out a stop sign. I remembered i had a big ass, but i didnt take a big enough swing to the left before starting my right hand turn. I did pay attention to the mirror, and when i saw i couldnt make it, i stopped....got out and looked behind me....and backed up a bit. Lucky for me the oncoming traffic either quickly turned to their right, or backed up enough for me to pull straight into their lane, clear the stop sign, and get back on my side of the road.

I still do not think that a mentor in the sleeper in the last week of training is that bad of an idea, that is if the mentor thinks the student driver is 100% ready to go solo at that time. First week, and the mentor is in the sleeper??? Yeah, i would have pounded on the side of the sleeper. specially if it were a company driver.

[cdswans]

Good one! That was actually my first mistake too . . cutting a corner too close . . in a truck stop but not a Pilot. Fortunately, my trainer was in the seat next to me and his peircing shrill holler had me straightened out in no time.

I don't have a trainer's manual with me but had that been Swift, the trainer would be in some very hot water, as well. The trainer can't sleep with the trainee at the wheel for (I believe) the first two weeks. It's a graduated system that I think works very well when it is properly used. In Swift's view, in that scenario, the trainer would be just as culpable as the trainee although not from a DOT or legal standpoint.

Do Swift trainers (and obviously your example) violate that policy? They sure do. My first student was in regular communication with a fellow classmate. His classmate was driving "solo" on day one and my student couldn't understand why I wouldn't let him do it. It became such a problem that I eventually had to boot him off the truck. On the "lonliest drive" back to the SLC terminal, he tried apologizing, he kept going on about how he should have listened to everyone he complained to (and sided with me), he tried calling the SLC cops to say I was a dangerous driver because I had taken him over the 395 shortcut near Susanville, CA . . and he's probably still running around out there somewhere dissing Swift.

Yesterday, I was at the Loves in Jonestown, PA. In drives a Swift who spots a pull through and, had he any clue of how to get into it, it should have been a breeze. He tries once, he (doesn't) correct and tries again. The spot two spaces away opens and he tries that one. Nope. He tries it again. Nope. Finally, he sees a spot toward the middle of the row and he sees there is sufficient (more than he ever needed) space to swing wide and in. To his credit, he didn't hit anything and hopefully he taught himself a thing or two. As in flying, any landing you walk away from is a good one.

[Jackrabbit379]

That's amazing. Not only the accident itself, and I understand that "new" drivers are learning. It may take some folks a while to realize how much more you do, and what all envolves, driving a truck, compared to a car. The trainer, being in the bedroom, asleep. That's what amazes me. Makes ya wonder. All the trucks you see, day to day-how many of them have a tenderfoot driving, and the trainer is back there, sleeping. Arta be a law against it. Well, I'm sure there is one. It's just crazy. If I was being trained, I would have to keep a bat on the floorboard. When that trainer is sleeping, and I'm somewhere that I'm not sure about, Just whack him.

[Kevin0915]

As in flying, any landing you walk away from is a good one.

True, HOWEVER, if i am a passenger on that plane, and the pilot takes 5 attempts at a landing before he greases the landing, and i miss my connecting flight by 10 minutes, i wont be a happy camper. There will be alot of pissed off passengers on that flight. =)

I will look for a pull thru spot all the time. But if there isnt one, no big deal, i'm a big boy, i can back. =)

[b00m]

Well,

Everyone has to learn somehow, right?...Too bad if you have to learn the hard way!!!

[Windwalker]

That's amazing. Not only the accident itself, and I understand that "new" drivers are learning. It may take some folks a while to realize how much more you do, and what all envolves, driving a truck, compared to a car. The trainer, being in the bedroom, asleep. That's what amazes me. Makes ya wonder. All the trucks you see, day to day-how many of them have a tenderfoot driving, and the trainer is back there, sleeping. Arta be a law against it. Well, I'm sure there is one. It's just crazy. If I was being trained, I would have to keep a bat on the floorboard. When that trainer is sleeping, and I'm somewhere that I'm not sure about, Just whack him.

I would support a $1000 fine for both the trainer and the company when the trainer is found to be in the sleeper while the trainee is doing the driving.

Washing the clothes I was wearing did not get everything out of them. Mixture of oil, grease, fuel, and water in the fuel island at the time. Looks like they'll turn into grease rags now. Also lost one hearing aid. Well, I did find it and pick it up, but it doesn't work anymore. And, the concrete pillar did move... About 3/4" gap between it and the pavement, but it didn't even start to tip. At Flying J, they're just set on top of the pavement and can slide if hit. They shouldn't do that much damage.

I've had trainees during the 4th week, that forgot what they were driving and started to turn too soon. Also had a "re-train" that couldn't seem to keep in mind that she had to wait to turn. Re-train because she took off something like 7 fenders in two weeks, while on her own. (I flunked her after the first week, and the company was upset about that.)

I still say that the training period is for TRAINING, and there is NONE OF THAT GOING ON when the trainer is in the bunk. I don't know if this tranee would have turned out to be a good driver or not, but I sincerely hope that trainer is currently looking for another job.

[Kevin0915]

... At Flying J, they're just set on top of the pavement and can slide if hit. They shouldn't do that much damage.

I am sure you'd agree with me when i say, 'you shouldn't hit one anyways...'.

And i am sure that the student was on the gas and going at a pretty good clip before the wheel hit the concrete. Although i would think that just blowing the tire would not cause enough force to peal back the rim, but then again, i've never done that quite yet. =)

[Hawkjr]

I'll Say it was C.R. England with a Lease Purchase Driver as the Trainer???

P.S. Pilots are the Devil.

[Jackrabbit379]

Pilots are bad news.
Every one that I've been to are in the roughest areas.

[cdswans]

I would support a $1000 fine for both the trainer and the company when the trainer is found to be in the sleeper while the trainee is doing the driving . .

You seem to have lost sight of the fact that these (the trainees) are state certified licensed drivers. It would be perfectly legal to toss them a set of keys and a fuel card and say "have a nice trip!" Your basis for the fine would be what, exactly?

If some moron of a trainer wants to put his or her life (and others) in the hands of an untested quantity, what the heck are you going to do about it? The system, at it's very core, needs to change. Unfortunately, increasing the skills and knowledge levels of potential CDL holders would raise the value of said holder. That would have the strong potential of forcing an increase in wages. That in turn might help reduce the wholesale attrition and it might even bring some better qualified Drivers back into the system. Oh, but the economy could never afford such horrors! How do you spell $5.00 diesel?

On the one hand, we have you bashing Swift (and others) for training at least 6 weeks over and above the requirement of any state in the land. On the other hand, we have Gman riding gallantly astride the stallion of piecework. Piecework was OUTLAWED in this country in 1938.

If either of you could focus for a few minutes on the real problem, perhaps then we could begin a constructive discourse toward a permanent solution. It sure is easy to sit back and wag your tongues about something that has nothing to do with the problem. It takes hard work and understanding to get to and undo the real damage.

This country has been through a 28 year campaign of the orderly dismantling and diminishing of skilled labor and the middle class. Each of us has sat idly by while the borders have remained wide open to accommodate our lower skilled and lower priced replacements. Organized labor, once a great voice in this land has been reduced to a whisper. Granted, the rampant greed and corruption within their own ranks helped to bring that about.

Oh, could I go on. I have to make a delivery. I'll be back.

[AC120]

"Piecework was outlawed in this country in 1936."

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????????????? Where did you collect that gem? Gimme some sources.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Well when you go into a DMV offfice ,and you have future drivers attempting to aquire their learners permit ,but can't seem to pass the basic knowledge tests easily on first try you can be guaranteed these individuals are not the sharper tools in the shed , And will be those students who actually need to be reminded that their 53ft trailer and tractor need more room to turn than their honda civic .

I remember taking some very simpe computer based tests when testing out to qualified driver at Werner ,And breezing through the test in no time at all ,but 99% of the future drivers took a day or 2 and were a bundle of nerves like they were taking a test that was hard ,but in reality was no such thing . Amazingly these are the type of drivers who after going through 3-4 wks cdl training and then 2-3 months OTJ training at Werner ...still can't remember whch direction to turn a steering wheel when backing a trailer ...I mean after nearly 3 months these people are still turning left in reverse to make the trailer go left ,and the dullest moment of all is the expession these people have on their faces when they are looking in the left mirror wondering where the trailer has gone ...


My point is you can't fix stupid ,and ufortunately that's a majority of what is applying for a cdl these days...Not all ,but a majority .

[Windwalker]

Piecework was OUTLAWED in this country in 1936.

That's really funny, because I know for a fact that it was very much alive and healthy at Marathon Electric in 1975... 1936, eh????
Oh, and Marathon Electric would be Wausau, WI, not some foreign country. Not quite far enough be be Yoopers.

[cdswans]

"Piecework was outlawed in this country in 1936."

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????????????? Where did you collect that gem? Gimme some sources.

I collected it from the law: The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (forgive me). The only exemption from piecework is a very narrow and clearly defined class of agricultural workers. Read it for yourself and let me know if you come to a different conclusion.

Compliance Assistance By Law - The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)

[Windwalker]

Ok... I got a screen from the labor department... With a search window.
Put "piece work" in the search window, and NOTHING came up.
Looks like it's not covered.

As I said, alive, well, and healthy in 1975... In the US of A.

[cdswans]

That's really funny, because I know for a fact that it was very much alive and healthy at Marathon Electric in 1975... 1936, eh????
Oh, and Marathon Electric would be Wausau, WI, not some foreign country. Not quite far enough be be Yoopers.

No. What's really funny is that you neglected to explain your basis for handing out $1000 fines.

Marathon Electric owed it's employees minimum wage up to 40 hours and time and a half afterwards whether they assembled 1 widget or 1000. They could pay all the production premiums they wanted to but they could not undercut minimum wage.

[AC120]

cdswans --

I thought you meant FLSA 1938.
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out and get back to you.