HOS regulations to be relaxed

[Graymist]

I just heard on MSNBC tonight that Bush, in his last days in office, is signing a whole bunch of rules, one of which entails the relaxation of HOS regulations for truckers. Does anyone of you have more info on this ?

[Rev.Vassago]

The "rule" that they are speaking of was the FMCSA proposed rules that they just came out with. Bush pushed them through. They are identical to the prior rules. Groups like Public Citizen are the ones who are calling them a "relaxation" of the rules, and the various media outlets are picking up on it.

Here's a statement from the Public Citizen website regarding this:

http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=2771

[Jackrabbit379]

I just heard on MSNBC tonight that Bush, in his last days in office, is signing a whole bunch of rules, one of which entails the relaxation of HOS regulations for truckers. Does anyone of you have more info on this ?

MSNBC are a bunch of far left pinheads!

[GMAN]

I hope this finally settles the hos rules. It is hard for everyone to keep up with all the changes they have made the last several years. For a while it seemed they were making changes every year or so. There are some things I don't care for with current hos rules, but nothing that I can't live with for now. All these changes costs a lot of money.

[Rev.Vassago]

I hope this finally settles the hos rules. It is hard for everyone to keep up with all the changes they have made the last several years. For a while it seemed they were making changes every year or so. There are some things I don't care for with current hos rules, but nothing that I can't live with for now. All these changes costs a lot of money.

From what Public Citizen is saying, I have a feeling they are planning to sue again.

[GMAN]

These people never seem to give up trying to tell us how to run safely. I doubt any of them have ever even sat in a truck much less driven. Logs have little to do with safety. A driver will either be safe or not. Smart drivers will park it when they get tired. No amount of regulations will make anyone safe. You cannot legislate safety or common sense. Perhaps it is time to turn the tables and file suit against these groups who are always so anxious to go to court.

[PDXer]

I looked at the link Rev posted. I noticed that the stats that they used where for the first new HOS rules that the death rate increased. What are the current stats for the 2nd new HOS rules?

Here are the things I have noticed...

1. With the 2nd new 14 hour window rule, instead of sleeping when traffic is in rush hour mode, now I have to drive to get out of town or shut down early and get up early in the AM to start driving. I could have taken a nap and let rush hour traffic clear out and then drive but that option has been taken away. I sure miss my 3:00pm naps. Tick-tock, tick-tock the 14 hour clock is running, gotta go, gotta go.

2. With the 2nd new 14 hour window rule, have you noticed the number trucks driving in rush hour traffic now slowing down traffic even more, making 4 wheelers take bigger risks to get in front of the big truck. Tick-tock, tick-tock the 14 hour clock is running, gotta go, gotta go.

3. With..., since all legal truckers are biding by the new rules, most truckers drive during daylight hours and are fighting for those limited parking spots at truck stops and rest areas. I feel sorry for all those truckers who were stuck at shipping/receiving for that 1:00pm appointment for 5-7 hours with their 14 hour clocks running, then when you are loaded/unloaded the customer says you can't stay here on their property, depending on what city you're in, good luck finding a safe parking spot or I guess you run illegal logs to find a spot seeing how states are passing laws about no parking on off/on ramps or roadside. I don't because I worry about a drunk driver hitting me.

4. With..., outlaws are going to be outlaws no matter what, do you think criminals care about gun laws.

5. With..., get your normal body clock rhythm out of sync and bad things are going to happen. Taking that curve too fast, bumping another truck, falling asleep behind the wheel, etc...
Truckers are always running on 5 clocks
1. 11 hour, 2. 14 hour, 3. 70 hour, 4. body clock, 5. real time clock.
I did a delivery at 06:00, worked 1/2 hour after my 10 off, dispatch sent me a load assignment with a 17:00 pickup time 2 miles from my delivery. Was awake the whole time in between, couldn't fall asleep. Even though I took another 10 hour break (without sleep) I could have driven legally for 11 hours. I picked up the load, service failed it and drove 2 hours down the road and shut it down for the night. I didn't make any friends with dispatch but dispatch isn't driving the truck, I am.

6, 7..., With..., add whatever you've seen out there.

[Rev.Vassago]

I looked at the link Rev posted. I noticed that the stats that they used where for the first new HOS rules that the death rate increased. What are the current stats for the 2nd new HOS rules?

From what I remember reading, truck related deaths are down, and have been for several years. The "stats" that Public Citizen uses are flawed or flat out incorrect. They also purposely don't take into account how many accidents are the fault of the car (which, from what I remember, is up).

[GMAN]

You need to look at the figures involving truck accidents with a grain of salt. In the past they have included pickup trucks and similar vehicles in their statistics. Technically, a pickup is a truck but there is much difference between a pickup and an 18 wheeler. I would like to see the numbers broken out to separate big trucks from all of the others.

[Musicman]

Logs have little to do with safety. A driver will either be safe or not. Smart drivers will park it when they get tired. No amount of regulations will make anyone safe. You cannot legislate safety or common sense. Perhaps it is time to turn the tables and file suit against these groups who are always so anxious to go to court.

This is always my biggest gripe. There have been times I’ve been off for 24 hours, picked up a load and made it 300 miles and gotten tired. There have also been times I have run for 20 hours straight and still wasn’t tired. So much of fatigue has to do with things that are not sleep related. Anymore, I drive ‘til I’m tired, sleep ‘til I’m rested and then drive ‘til I’m tired again. It doesn’t take a lot of sense to know that this is the only safe thing to do. I’m not going to let the HOS force me to drive when I feel I’m not safe and I conversely am not going to let the HOS make me stop driving when I am not tired and know I won’t be able to sleep. If they catch my log when I have my pants down (so to speak), they can write whatever tickets they want, but for the last six years I’ve decided that safety is going to be number one.

I have often wondered if you could sue these groups for just that, Gman. I don’t think you could, because they ultimately do not make the rules. You just sue the FMCSA like OOIDA always does.

I actually feel a bit sorry for the FMCSA because no matter what they do, they get sued. They make one ruling and get sued by one of these pompous so-called citizen protection groups. They make a different and they get sued by OOIDA or the ATA. They just need to have some balls and do what is right. That of course seems to be beyond government workers, but it’d be nice if they’d try it for a change.

Anybody see where (in Sweden, maybe it was) they took out something like 80% of traffic control devices (stop signs and the like) and traffic accidents dropped sharply? It’s amazing what LESS government regulation can do.

[Musicman]

From what I remember reading, truck related deaths are down, and have been for several years. The "stats" that Public Citizen uses are flawed or flat out incorrect. They also purposely don't take into account how many accidents are the fault of the car (which, from what I remember, is up).

I feel for many of these people in some ways. Many of them have had loved ones who have been killed or seriously injured in truck related crashes. They let their pain control what brains they have and cannot be reasoned with using facts and figures. As long as humans are at the controls of vehicles, or machines made by humans (in the near future, perhaps) there will be accidents. If you compare the number of serious accidents per million miles traveled by trucks and cars, the difference is amazing. You reach a point of diminishing returns (for any economic majors here) where it takes so much more put into reducing accidents to get even a tiny reduction that it is not worth it the effort.

My God, look at how many people die from hospital errors each year (about 195,000 in the US)! Those things are very easily prevented, unlike accidents. You don’t see a huge public outcry over that. Trucks are large and scary to many people and a few dangerous truck drivers gives the whole industry a bad name. Truck accidents get 100 times the press of car accidents because they are more destructive when they do happen.

[Musicman]

You need to look at the figures involving truck accidents with a grain of salt. In the past they have included pickup trucks and similar vehicles in their statistics. Technically, a pickup is a truck but there is much difference between a pickup and an 18 wheeler. I would like to see the numbers broken out to separate big trucks from all of the others.

whole story is at this link: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jul...cal/me-crash23

Car vs. Big Rig: Usually Loser’s Fault
By Hugo MartÃ*n
July 23, 2002 in print edition B-6

Car drivers are most often to blame for fatal accidents with big-rig trucks and are most likely to die in those crashes, according to a national study to be released today. The study of more than 10,000 fatal accidents by the Automobile Assn. of America’s Foundation for Traffic Safety determined that car drivers cause most collisions with big rigs by speeding, failing to yield or cutting in the path of the trucks.

Of those killed in the car-versus-truck accidents, 98% are car drivers or their passengers, the study concluded.

The study echoed the findings of previous research that blamed the drivers of passenger vehicles for most collisions with big rigs. But for the first time, the AAA study sought to determine the most common driving behavior that results in such accidents.

The study did not calculate how often car drivers were at fault nationally. But the Automobile Club of Southern California estimated that, among those accidents in which police determined who was to blame, car drivers, motorcyclists and pedestrians were blamed for 69% of their accidents with big rigs in California last year.

Fatalities resulting from accidents involving big rigs dropped in California to 396 last year, from 412 in 2000, according to the California Highway Patrol.

The findings of the national study are significant for Southern California motorists who find themselves increasingly sharing congested roads with big rigs. Due to a surge in overseas cargo shipments, big rig traffic from the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach has increased steadily and is expected to more than triple by 2020, from 30,000 trips a day to 100,000.

“Car drivers need to realize that greater precautions must be taken when driving near trucks,” said Steven Bloch, senior researcher for AAA.

Such accidents are most often blamed on car drivers who fail to stay in their lanes, refuse to yield right of way to big rigs, drive too fast for conditions or otherwise break traffic laws, according to the AAA study.

[Musicman]

You need to look at the figures involving truck accidents with a grain of salt. In the past they have included pickup trucks and similar vehicles in their statistics. Technically, a pickup is a truck but there is much difference between a pickup and an 18 wheeler. I would like to see the numbers broken out to separate big trucks from all of the others.

a link to some govt research: http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/hsis/pubs/04085/index.htm

[Musicman]

I guess you run illegal logs to find a spot seeing how states are passing laws about no parking on off/on ramps or roadside. I don't because I worry about a drunk driver hitting me.

I prefer to park on ramps if they are wide enough. I've never been hit by a drunk driver. You care to guess how many times I've been hit in truck stops (even three times at the fuel island!) and at docks? I actually lost count. In fact, I will only park in a truck stop as a very last resort. I value my truck too much.

[GMAN]

I would like to see us throw the log books away and just do our jobs. Most people rest when they get tired and run when they can. The problem with these groups is that they take a cookie cutter approach to pushing through legislation that they think will make them safer. In reality, many of these rules they get through only make roads less safe. There is no way to make roads 100% safe all the time. It will never happen. There are somewhere around 3-5 million truck drivers on the road today, each with a different body clock. You cannot legislate anyone's body clock.

[Musicman]

I would like to see us throw the log books away and just do our jobs. Most people rest when they get tired and run when they can. The problem with these groups is that they take a cookie cutter approach to pushing through legislation that they think will make them safer. In reality, many of these rules they get through only make roads less safe. There is no way to make roads 100% safe all the time. It will never happen. There are somewhere around 3-5 million truck drivers on the road today, each with a different body clock. You cannot legislate anyone's body clock.

Amen brother!