Another Swift trainee killed last night......

[TomB985]

again, how do u know how the trainer was running the truck?? You ASSume that the trainer was running the student-driver as hard as he could, to get the truck to run as many miles a day as it could, wearing out the student-driver. and you ASSume, that this is a problem indigineous to Swift. Sorry to say pal, that they are not the only company with students and a driving school. But like i said in my previous post, we all start somewhere.

Oh, and it isnt the company that 'insists' on running new drivers like teams, it is the poor-quality, money hungry mentors who are the ones to blame.

Kevin...do you need your eyes checked?

When did I EVER say that Swift pushed trainers to run as a team. NEVER happened. I, however, KNOW of some companies who DO. Nowhere in any one of my posts did I say Swift was one of them. Beyond that, I never said that I knew ANYTHING about Swift, and even asked for clarification on several issues here.

All I, and most others, ever said was that if the conditions were difficult...which they WERE, the trainer should have been in the seat. That's all. I never implied they ran like a team...never implied I knew how he was running his truck. Never happened. :roll2:

You seem to enjoy pissing people off, for no practical reason. The sad fact is that you are WAY too new at this to pop off like that and have anyone care.

Grow up. Shut up. Do your job safely and QUIT acting like you know EVERYTHING!!!

[Kevin0915]

Clueless about the big picture on this terrible situation aren't you ????

What is the big picture? that people on here want to just slam swift for the sake of slamming them? because 'everyone else is doing it, it just be fun...'?? you claim to blame swift for the trainers 'fault', yet you dont even know how the trainer was operating the truck.

just because the trainer is in the sleeper, dont mean he was running the truck like they were a 'team'. I'll tell you, my trainer was in the sleeper my first week from time to time, and by no means, if you even asked HIM (as bad as he sucked anyways) he wouldn't claim that was team.

again, clueless about the particulars, and so want to spin 'guesses' to make it sound as bad as you can to make the company look like the bad guy.

[BigDiesel]

What is the big picture? that people on here want to just slam swift for the sake of slamming them? because 'everyone else is doing it, it just be fun...'?? you claim to blame swift for the trainers 'fault', yet you dont even know how the trainer was operating the truck.

just because the trainer is in the sleeper, dont mean he was running the truck like they were a 'team'. I'll tell you, my trainer was in the sleeper my first week from time to time, and by no means, if you even asked HIM (as bad as he sucked anyways) he wouldn't claim that was team.

again, clueless about the particulars, and so want to spin 'guesses' to make it sound as bad as you can to make the company look like the bad guy.

Are you that ignorant ???

Several media reports posted on this topic stated that the worthless trainer was in the sleeper.....

Work on your reading comprehension..... www.rif.org

[Kevin0915]

Are you that ignorant ???

Several media reports posted on this topic stated that the worthless trainer was in the sleeper.....

Work on your reading comprehension...

....sooooo.....that automaticly shows the mentor running the truck "team"? i'll tell you, my first (loser) mentor i had was in the sleeper my first week being on the truck. He wasnt sleeping, he wasnt in the sleeper the entire time i was at the wheel, and we wernt running team, but according to your gorilla-thinking, mentor in sleeper=mentor running team. which isnt the case.

I am not disagreeing the mentor was in the sleeper, i am arguing that just because it was in there, dont automaticly make it 'team driving'.

several media reports huh....did you hear about this on the national news? cause i sure didn't. i had to google washington state TV stations and then find it there.

[Orangetxguy]

I wonder if anybody even read the particulars of this accident. Or do you just LOOOOVE Swift bashing? I really could care less. But most of you, all you see is "stupid ignorant SWIFT driver crashes truck". You forget that a human life was lost. Guess what, in case you didnt know, we are all human. Have a little PROFESSIONAL respect. We were all that 'new' once in our careers.

The driver, yes he was in his 4th or 5th week of training, was at the wheel, and yes, the trainer was in the sleeper. Was it the trainer's fault for being in the sleeper that the truck wrecked? No. Could it have been prevented, had the trainer told the newbie driver, "...look, if you get sleepy, pull over..." or, "...drive at whatever speed you feel safe..". Sure. The trainer had over a year experience. The question is, how do you know how the trainer was running the truck? You all assume you 'know', you all want to make it look as bad as it possibly can, just because it was Swift. Fact is you don't know. The mentor might have been comfortable with the drivers ability to control. Had to have some level of comfort if he was in the sleeper. You think if you were in the trainer's position, and you DIDN'T feel 100% comfortable, that you'd trust your life and your truck to some 'stranger'?? come on. grow a pair.

Now i will agree, that there are some mentors, and not just with swift either, who want a student on the truck just to use him as a 2nd log book, or so s/he can get the truck running team as soon as possible. AND THAT IS BAD. Those 42-days are there to TRAIN, not to squeeze as much money out of the student as you can.

can anyone tell me, did the student-driver fall asleep or hydroplane?

I know the option is available, that after 6 months, I can become a trainer. But after 6 months, i would not feel comfortable teaching someone the job that i'm fairly new at myself. But what nobody here will admit, is that not only after 6 months of 1st seat driving, AND no preventable accidents, AND no log violations, your record has to be almost perfect to be offered a training position. Not to mention you have to take time out of your week to take a day long class on being a mentor, and what is expected of you.

Next time you see a 18 wheeler, dont first look for the name on the side of the truck, just remember you BOTH are doing the same job. You BOTH have the same basic license, you BOTH are 'contractors', and you BOTH are professional............act like it.

What made you think nobody read the particulars about this accident?

What makes you think anybody here forgot that a man died?

The entire discourse of this thread has been the death of Mr. Fay, and the fact that his trainer was in the bunk.

Some facts.

Mr. Fay was a "New" driver, with less than 4 weeks of training. That is a fact reported by the Washington State Patrol, and no less than 4 news organizations.

Fact. The trainer was in the bunk. Now....was he awake? Hard to tell that the man was awake and watching....Mr. Fay got deep enough into trouble that he died. HE SHOULD NOT HAVE DIED. A trainer that is awake and paying attention should have brought Mr. Fay's actions under control, and prevented at least the fatality, if not the entire accident.

Another fact. The section of roadway where this accident occured is not bad. In fact, it is a very decent stretch of road, easily handled in bad weather.

Now...I don't give a fart, what the company name on the door is. This type of training is all to common, giving this industry a bad name and a black eye, and is dangerous. How many driver fatalities are the result of poor training practices? How many outside(read as 4-wheeler) fatalities are the result of poor training practices? I can tell you...TO MANY. One is to many.

This accident was easily preventable, had the trainee been adequately trained, or had he been adequately supervised.

As for this trainer being 100% comfortable with a stranger in control of his life......If he was, then he showed poor judgement didn't he?


Did you read the entire thread...or did you just read a few statements and get mad?

Aren't you the same clueless rookie that was on here a few weeks ago complaining about your "SWIFT" trainers? Was not one of them a "cheap Stinky Azz" according to you?

[Kevin0915]

What made you think nobody read the particulars about this accident?

What makes you think anybody here forgot that a man died?

The entire discourse of this thread has been the death of Mr. Fay, and the fact that his trainer was in the bunk.

Some facts.

Mr. Fay was a "New" driver, with less than 4 weeks of training. That is a fact reported by the Washington State Patrol, and no less than 4 news organizations.

Fact. The trainer was in the bunk. Now....was he awake? Hard to tell that the man was awake and watching....Mr. Fay got deep enough into trouble that he died. HE SHOULD NOT HAVE DIED. A trainer that is awake and paying attention should have brought Mr. Fay's actions under control, and prevented at least the fatality, if not the entire accident.

Another fact. The section of roadway where this accident occured is not bad. In fact, it is a very decent stretch of road, easily handled in bad weather.

Now...I don't give a fart, what the company name on the door is. This type of training is all to common, giving this industry a bad name and a black eye, and is dangerous. How many driver fatalities are the result of poor training practices? How many outside(read as 4-wheeler) fatalities are the result of poor training practices? I can tell you...TO MANY. One is to many.

This accident was easily preventable, had the trainee been adequately trained, or had he been adequately supervised.

As for this trainer being 100% comfortable with a stranger in control of his life......If he was, then he showed poor judgement didn't he?

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stori...186f1a7d9.html

this is the link i first saw. 3 and a half weeks of training. If you would actually get some insight, and KNOW that swift just dont hire jo blow off the street with just your standard state D.L. Mr. Fay must have attended some schooling somewhere. his ON ROAD trainnig was 3 and a half weeks, but his total time training was a few weeks longer than that.

But my point being, yeah the trainer screwed up, or should not have been that complacent with a newbie. And i am willing to bet that Cheikh Fay, being 49, isnt a naturally born american, and maybe there was a slight problem with understanding and writing english proficiently (as required by FMSCA).

And another point i was making, was it is hardly important WHO he was driving/training for, the fact that most of you on this thread automaticly start bashing the company just becuase it is Swift, and could care less that a fellow driver was killed. and all i was asking was that all fellow drivers understand that we all should be professional, and leave the company bashing aside....but oh no. what is the FIRST POST made in this thread.....not even 2 sentences into it, and the swift-bashing has already begun. THAT is pathetic.

Mistakes were made....fine. Just be lucky he hit a concrete bridge support and not a bus load full of kids....or a minivan with grandma and grandpa. Who's fault was it? mostly it was the DRIVER behind the wheel going too fast for road conditions. Second, it was the fault of the mentor accepting the level of skill the student had.

Did you read the entire thread...or did you just read a few statements and get mad?

Aren't you the same clueless rookie that was on here a few weeks ago complaining about your "SWIFT" trainers? Was not one of them a "cheap Stinky Azz" according to you?

i read every post, not just bits and pieces. But there were a few that stood out as just swift-bashing....not really caring about the fact a fellow driver died. (whether you can accept it or not, he is still a fellow driver)

and i am the same DRIVER who, weeks ago was a student driver, complaining about ONE bad trainer. TRAINER.....plural. Now, i know there are more than just that one....every company has more than just one. the last one i had taught me more in half a day than my first one did the entire 2 weeks (actually 8 working days) on the truck. But guess what, never once did i fall asleep at the wheel. Get sleepy? sure, who don't. But my last mentor had enough forethought to tell me, "...look, this truck and the load you're pullin' isnt worth getting into a wreck that can hurt or kill ya. if you need to, pull it over and get out, walk around, or take a nap." Now tell me, how many money hungry trainers, who only care about how many miles their truck can run will tell their student THAT.

BUT, to assume, that you think that is what Mr. Fay's trainer said or did, or you know how he was training him, give me a break. If you know that, you've got a good idea for a new reality show....confessions of a ghost trucker whisperer...or something.

[Orangetxguy]

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stori...186f1a7d9.html

this is the link i first saw. 3 and a half weeks of training. If you would actually get some insight, and KNOW that swift just dont hire jo blow off the street with just your standard state D.L. Mr. Fay must have attended some schooling somewhere. his ON ROAD trainnig was 3 and a half weeks, but his total time training was a few weeks longer than that.

But my point being, yeah the trainer screwed up, or should not have been that complacent with a newbie. And i am willing to bet that Cheikh Fay, being 49, isnt a naturally born american, and maybe there was a slight problem with understanding and writing english proficiently (as required by FMSCA).

And another point i was making, was it is hardly important WHO he was driving/training for, the fact that most of you on this thread automaticly start bashing the company just becuase it is Swift, and could care less that a fellow driver was killed. and all i was asking was that all fellow drivers understand that we all should be professional, and leave the company bashing aside....but oh no. what is the FIRST POST made in this thread.....not even 2 sentences into it, and the swift-bashing has already begun. THAT is pathetic.

Mistakes were made....fine. Just be lucky he hit a concrete bridge support and not a bus load full of kids....or a minivan with grandma and grandpa. Who's fault was it? mostly it was the DRIVER behind the wheel going too fast for road conditions. Second, it was the fault of the mentor accepting the level of skill the student had.

With that particular statement, you are being even worse than Big D, with his attitude about Swift. At least Big D wasn't being racist or biggoted.

Something you should understand. Mr Fay was most likely Philipino. Something else you should understand...the Puget Sound region is home to the largest Philipino population in the United States, with the vast majority of those now living, native born(American Citizens). Philipinos have been imigrating to the United States since the early 1840's. Renton, Kent, Auburn and Tacoma have very large Philipino populations.

I'm betting that Mr. Fay was laid off by Boeing or PACCAR, and took their offered CDL training.

[Kevin0915]

i am by far a racist or a biggot. Just making a point that it is possible of the language barrier there. Maybe he spoke/used better english than either one of us. Who knows, but take the time to WEEED my post. I didnt say "oh he used broken english, and should never have been allowed into the US". come on....

If he took the offered schooling, great. I mean if anybody gets let go from any job, and he or she wants to endeavour toward a new career, great.

[boneebone]

I don't think he is clueless at all, I think he is being open minded. I don't see where he mentioned race at all in his arguments, and true since none of us were in the truck or standing on the side of the road with a video camera, all you guys can make are ASS-umptions. Just like there are dumb-ass Mentors out there, there are also dumb-ass students out there too, who think just because they received their CDL they know how to handle a Commercial Vehicle and drive the vehicle like a four wheeler.

[Jackrabbit379]

Man, yall know how to keep a good thread hoppin.

[BigDiesel]

....sooooo.....that automaticly shows the mentor running the truck "team"? i'll tell you, my first (loser) mentor i had was in the sleeper my first week being on the truck. He wasnt sleeping, he wasnt in the sleeper the entire time i was at the wheel, and we wernt running team, but according to your gorilla-thinking, mentor in sleeper=mentor running team. which isnt the case.

I am not disagreeing the mentor was in the sleeper, i am arguing that just because it was in there, dont automaticly make it 'team driving'.

several media reports huh....did you hear about this on the national news? cause i sure didn't. i had to google washington state TV stations and then find it there.

You do not have the mental capacity to drive truck.... I would hope that you can receive a refund on your so called training.... But your attitude towards this terrible accident is not surprising considering whom you are enslaved to...... What a joke of a driver you are.....

[Kevin0915]

You do not have the mental capacity to drive truck.... I would hope that you can receive a refund on your so called training.... But your attitude towards this terrible accident is not surprising considering whom you are enslaved to...... What a joke of a driver you are.....

Typical response, i would not have hoped to hear anything different. It must have sucked for you when you went to Junior High School, huh. Your signature line, is that something your father told you when you were 12?

Don't have the mental capacity to drive a truck? Really, seeing how I CAN, and I HAVE. What is training? According to Webster, it is: the skill, knowledge, or experience acquired by one that trains. I obviously have the skill to get an 18-Wheeler from point A to point B, WITHOUT being unsafe, I'm willing to bet I have more experience then YOU (cause i think you just FAKE being a truck driver so you can BE somebody, and prove to your father that you aren't a nobody). And it was a terrible accident. What I am trying to SAY (cause it seems nobody bothers to take their blinkers off (blinkers is a horse racing term, by the way)) is that it was not totally the fault of the company, or the trainer. Whos butt was sitting behind the wheel? And at some point, anybody would/should have thought to themselves, "...boy, the road is wet, and i'm doing 63-65mph with a fully loaded trailer, and my vehicle weight is close to 40 tons, and i can feel i'm starting to hydroplane for split seconds..." But with the proper training that i've had, I've been told, when it rains, you slow down by as much as 5-10mph. HAD MR. FAY DONE THAT (unless he fell asleep at the wheel, too) the accident would never have happened. Now, seeing that he was still a training DRIVER (most of you forget that part...he was still a fellow DRIVER), it is the fault of the school that taught him, and his mentor for not making sure he understood what it ment to be in total control of your vehicle at all times. Now, what some of you like to just ASSume, is that you know what the mentor told him, you know exactly how Mr. Fay was trained, or you know how the mentor was running the truck. You obviously don't, so why jump to conclusions like you DO. You would rather pin the blame, and make the company look bad, by saying it was the companies fault because it is obviously their fault for asking/making a driver run student drivers as part of a TEAM. I will tell you that is not the case. THAT fault lies with the money hungry drivers who know they can become mentors, get a student driver on the truck, and run 1500-2500 more miles a week. Is how greedy a trainer is the fault of the company they work for? You think the company will look at this accident, pat the trainer on the back, telling him 'it wasn't your fault', and just blindly give him the reigns of being a trainer again, just to get him on the road with another student driver? They will look up the history of this driver, his student drivers, everything. If they deem him as being 'unsafe', you think they will allow him back in a truck, that they have to pay a million dollar deductable for everytime they have an accident???

pull your head out of the sand (or whever else it might be stuck) and open your eyes, and quit just ASSuming you know everything about this accident.

Oh, and i am hardly 'enslaved' to anybody. If I was working for such a 'bad bad' company, felt they were pushing me to run unsafe, had shoddy equipment, etc. i would start looking for another company to work for. They dont own me, and i am free to walk out the door at anytime I so choose. As for your last comment, you might or you might not have ever been on the same mile of road with me, so how can you pass judgement on my skill or not? Anybody with a brain bigger than your pea can figure that out. Quit being so prejudice, it is not healthy for you.

[Kevin0915]

and his trainer was sound asleep in the bunk.........

and i am sure you KNOW this, because you were actually in the truck, yeah? You KNOW he was sound asleep, because you KNOW when the mentor went to line 2, and you know how long Mr. Fay was on line 3, and/or how fatigued he might have been?? Tell me, can you give me the lotto numbers for the powerball drawing set for next Wednesday??



.....talk about pathetic.

[headborg]

Well I'm just glad to see it wasn't YOU -- Kevin. Although, now I've lost that $20.00 bet!

Be safe out there and watch out.

[Kevin0915]

Well I'm just glad to see it wasn't YOU -- Kevin. Although, now I've lost that $20.00 bet!

Be safe out there and watch out.

HAHAHAHA....that was actually funny. I could see how it is easy to confuse "Kevin" with "Cheikh". ;-)

[Orangetxguy]

I don't think he is clueless at all, I think he is being open minded. I don't see where he mentioned race at all in his arguments, and true since none of us were in the truck or standing on the side of the road with a video camera, all you guys can make are ASS-umptions. Just like there are dumb-ass Mentors out there, there are also dumb-ass students out there too, who think just because they received their CDL they know how to handle a Commercial Vehicle and drive the vehicle like a four wheeler.

So...You feel it would be dumb to ASS-ume that the trainer being in the seat, instead of in the sleeper, could have done anything to prevent this accident?


In my opinion...Any trainer unable to control his or her trainee, and that trainee's driving actions...IS NOT A FIT TRAINER. Failing to teach a new driver the difference between a 4-wheeler and an 18-wheeler falls on everyone from the Driving School Instructor whom taught the trainee, to the Corporate Trainer, whom is in the truck with the trainee.

Why would anyone need to be on the shoulder of the road or in the truck to make that observation?

Kevin wrote;

And i am willing to bet that Cheikh Fay, being 49, isnt a naturally born american

Given the fact that Mr. Fay was a resident of Renton WA, and the fact that the Puget Sound region has been home to immigrants for more than 100 years.....he was being ignorant. IF Kevin's speculation as to the lack of english skills on Mr. Fay's part were correct...then SWIFT would indeed be "AT FAULT" for having him at the controls of the truck, would they not?


Or would I need to be on the shoulder of the road or in the truck to make that observation?

[Kevin0915]

If you think drivers are that stupid, that they don't know they are getting UP into an 18-wheeler, and that it will obviously handle totally different than a 4-wheeler, then you are slapping us all in the face, calling us 'dumb'. Even a little child knows, if you give them a big wheel to drive for years, then give them a small bike with training wheels, they know the difference. You're saying truck drivers aren't smarter than a child?

you think i am letting the trainer off the hook for the accident. i am not. i will agree that had he been in the right seat, i am sure he would have said "slow down a bit when it is raining" LONG before the accident. Long before, like....during week 1. Then again, MAYBE he did mention slowing down when it rains. You again assume you know what the trainer said to the student driver. Maybe he was told everything he SHOULD HAVE, and just was caught daydreaming, and didn't realize he increased his speed from 59 to 64. You going to tell me, you have NEVER EVER had a leadfoot, and increased your speed 5mph by mistake? I bet you are one of thoes 'super truckers' who never miss a shift either, or gind a gear. You are perfect, i forgot. How many tickets and log violations do you have??

[Windwalker]

Those of us that have been on this board for a couple of years have read comments by new drivers, just a few months, about how they were going to be trainers, getting the money for both drivers and making a mint. And, which ones were the companies they were working for? Let's see...

C R England was one.

I believe Swift was another...

Think there was another, and don't know if it was USX or not.

Sorry, folks, but if the training is not over, the trainers job is not over, and he belongs in the "shotgun seat". Anything else is a simple matter of GREED. With just a few months on the job, a driver does not know enough, himself/herself to be able to train someone else. Much less, judge when the trainee is capable of driving unsupervised. A period of training is a time of teaching and learning (depending on which one you are referring too.) and the simple fact is that there is absolutely NONE of that going on if the trainer is in the bunk.

The fact is... When you get your CDL and complete your training with a trainer/mentor, you have learned to AIM THE TRUCK DOWN THE ROAD, and you will spend the next several years actually learning to drive yourself. Getting your CDL is simply your license to "learn to drive". It takes, at least, a couple of years of that "learning to drive", yourself, before you know enough to train someone else.

As a former trainer, myself, I've had more than one trainee that I have had to say someting during the 5th, and even the 6th week, in order to prevent an accident. And, more than half of those times, it was because the trainee was about to mis-judge the conditions of a curve. Specifically, about to enter the curve too fast. Something that a seasoned driver will recognize immediately, but a driver with only a few months under his own belt may easily overlook. If you're going to wear the label of "TRAINER/MENTOR", you're going to take your job seriously, and DO YOUR JOB UNTIL THE TRAINING SESSION IS OVER.

Yes, I do blame the trainer for the accident. Along with the company that allows that type of training. If the trainer was a seasoned driver, not just a "six month wonder", and had been doing his job, he would have cautioned the trainee to take it easy because of the road conditions. In this case, the company and the trainer should be charged with WRONGFUL DEATH. After the training is over and the trainee is out on his own, the fault then goes to him alone.

With the facts I've seen in this case, I see it as being preventable by the company, the trainer, or both.

[Kevin0915]

Those of us that have been on this board for a couple of years have read comments by new drivers, just a few months, about how they were going to be trainers, getting the money for both drivers and making a mint. And, which ones were the companies they were working for? Let's see...

C R England was one.

I believe Swift was another...

Sure hope you are not making reference to me, because nowhere did i say i would be a trainer in 6 months. I side with you when saying nobody should be a trainer without X amount of years or X amount of miles under their belt. AND i'd go a step farther and say you cannot have any preventable accidents in that same time span.

as far as the end of your post, you again assume you know exactly how the mentor was teaching and what has been taught previous to the accident. Maybe he was one of those money hungry greedy trainers we talk about. Maybe he was a trainer with a million miles, who knows. But dont assume. Yeah, it was the fault of the trainer, and leave it at that. And only if the company knowingly allowed a poor quality trainer on the road with a student driver, is the company at fault. Do you know how many months/years the mentor in question has under his belt? Obviously none of us do.....so why speculate about it?

[BigDiesel]

and i am sure you KNOW this, because you were actually in the truck, yeah? You KNOW he was sound asleep, because you KNOW when the mentor went to line 2, and you know how long Mr. Fay was on line 3, and/or how fatigued he might have been?? Tell me, can you give me the lotto numbers for the powerball drawing set for next Wednesday??



.....talk about pathetic.

You just don't get it do you..... Me thinks this worthless trainer is a friend of yours....... You will not last in this industry due to your Supertrucker attitude.... The roads will be safer once you are off of them..... Once the WSP report is posted online for public review, it will be posted here to show you how clueless you actually are when it comes to safety and professionalism......