Another Swift trainee killed last night......

[Orangetxguy]

I made no attempt to diminish the significance of the inexperienced Driver. The news story has a few gaps, understandably and my aim was to help fill them. I have first hand experience with that freight on that road and under those conditions, with and without a trainer.

That inexperienced Driver had a heavy, top heavy load at night through tricky turns on a wet road. My guess is he found himself going too fast for conditions and either overeacted or reacted too little or too late. Should he have been allowed to drive it while the trainer slept? How should I know? Had he been able to impress the trainer up to that point or was the trainer just lazy? Who knows? When did the poop hit the fan and would the trainer have been able to intervene had he been in the seat? Who knows?

Not all inexperienced Drivers wreck. I didn't. Most don't. A blanket indictment of Swift's training methods is ludicrous. Every major fleet trains the exact same way and enjoy the same rate of success that Swift has. Do a lot of Drivers have negative impressions of Swift training? They sure do. A lot of Drivers have negative opinions about every aspect of the company. I may just fall over dead if I ever hear someone pay Swift a compliment.

As far as the equipment goes, you can have an 80000 lb tractor uprated to 94000 by paying a little extra dough at registration and there are probably plenty of 94000 rated Volvos. My first truck was a 94000 lb Freightliner. I could legally pull most 3 axles, an occasional (not fully loaded) 4 axle and Rocky Mountain doubles. I don't think Swift has any 4 axle Volvos but I could be wrong. My earlier scenario is a most likely scenario scenario. Again, I could be wrong but that is so rare . .




.

CD...the highlighted part of your statement explains quite well, why the trainer should have been awake and in the seat.

I don't have a problem with Swift. I have a problem with a trainer sleeping in the bunk, while his "trainee" is dying at the wheel. And yes..I'm quite sure I saw 4-axle Volvos while in Portland and Tacoma last week.

I don't know how many trips you have made through Olympia...but I traveled that route from January 1988 through February 2005, sometimes twice a night, each direction. I-5 through Oly is just not that bad a road.

As I stated in my reply to Big Jeep, the WSP will know what happened, after reviewing the camera tapes. You can bet they started that proccess as soon as the first Trooper was on scene. If they issue a public report, we will all know what happened.

[repete]

It's just a matter of time before a trainee's next of kin sue's a trainer for being in the bunk instead of training, and the company for allowing it!

[bentstrider]

Well, stressing again that sleep is an important factor when driving.

I found that out the hard-way and that's why I'm currently still not driving for Swift at the moment.

However, I have been through the particular area in question and I had the luck to be taken through it with a trainer, in the passenger seat directing, on multiple occasions during night-training.

The trainer I had was actually an owner-op with a Kenworth T2000.

He had this little rule about writing up some mile-markers and stopping at an adjacent parking area before we continued on into a certain area.

Essentially, it was for me to wake him up, or get him out from the sleeper once we reached a squirrely-area.

Worked well enough for the both of us.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Well Big Jeep. I have never killed a deer with a truck or a 4-wheeler. I haven't shot one since October of 1983. There are plenty of deer and elk along I-90 on Snoqualmie Pass. Lot's of deer through out Washington State, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Colorado, Wyoming...and several more for that matter.

Not hitting things is fairly easy to do. You simply pay attention to what you are doing. Now...I have curbed a tire (1984 if memory serves me right). I didn't however blow out a tire (or tires) and bend up the rims. But curbing a tire and scraping a trailer against a fixed object or another vehicle...are two different subjects. "Get Out And Look" has been around a long time.


Now....I have been involved in an accident. BUT...that particular "Peckerhead" is still in jail (currently Lompoc, CA), and has several more years to go, before he walks out. The accident (in 1997), was re-classified as a criminal act and I was listed as the victim. It has never shown on my MVR as an accident. When they move "Peckerhead" from one prison to another, I am informed, as I will be when he is released.

As for this subject..the Swift trainer should have been awake and in the right seat where he belonged. I-5 through Olympia is just not that bad. It never has been (I have driven that stretch of road in all types of conditions). If the trainee was speeding, it was the trainer's job to get him slowed down.

If the WSP issues a public report on this accident (the one BD posted about?), they will say in that report what the traffic cameras showed. If the truck was cut-off, the WSP will use all due deligence to chase down the offending vehicle. They are very good at their job. You would be amazed at how good those cameras are....(I was). I was also very thankful for the cameras and the WSP performance. The cameras supported my written statement about the events of the accident I was in.

Now...If you want to say something about that(my accident), remember this. I haul Hazardous Material. I have hauled hazardous material since 1979. In the years since I started driving, I have moved from the "Ride to the Right" philosophy, to the "Stay in the lane and ride it out" philosophy. It is far far safer to kill one, than it is to kill tens, hundreds...or thousands. Maintaining control of the truck, and keeping it up right and on the road, is safer than driving through an apartment complex, a motel, a mall...or a home. From the corporate stand point...it is also cheaper to "Stay in the lane". There are some chemicals out there on the road, that you simply do not want spilled. Wild manuvers at speed, produces bad results.

Well know you never hit a deer at night driving roads full of them because you "pay attention" and these are animals that come running from the roadside out of heavily wooded areas that hide them from sight until running infront of you at distances of 150ft or less which at speeds of 55-65 mph your moving at about that distance per second and with a 1 sec perception time/1 sec reaction time/1 sec break delay for air breaks you just ran over that deer and did not even start to slow down until about 200ft after the stain ...So your wreck with a highly visible car unlike the dear must have been lack of attention on your end.

[Orangetxguy]

Well know you never hit a deer at night driving roads full of them because you "pay attention" and these are animals that come running from the roadside out of heavily wooded areas that hide them from sight until running infront of you at distances of 150ft or less which at speeds of 55-65 mph your moving at about that distance per second and with a 1 sec perception time/1 sec reaction time/1 sec break delay for air breaks you just ran over that deer and did not even start to slow down until about 200ft after the stain ...So your wreck with a highly visible car unlike the dear must have been lack of attention on your end.

You didn't read very well young guy.

However...since you want too press it...That accident was at 2:47 AM, May 13, 1997, southbound on I-5 at the Northgate Mall Interchange. The traffic cameras supported my statement, which I had written at the scene. I got to watch the movie 6 weeks after the accident.....when I was informed that it was not an accident at all. The car which hit me, came from 2 lanes to my left, and went under the center of the 4-axle gas tanker-trailer, that I was pulling with a 4-axle truck, which also carried a gas tank mounted on it's chassis. The man driving the car is in prison. He was convicted in AZ, CA, NV and WA of insurance fraud and manslaughter. The WSP is fairly certain that he expected me to run over the car that was on my right front steer position(they arrested him when his buddy rolled on him)...or take the truck off the road. I stayed in my lane through the entire incident. The traffic cameras on I-5 from the Snohomish County line to the scene at Northgate Mall backed my statement at the scene, one hundred percent.

And again. I have been driving since 1979. I have never hit a deer, an elk, or a moose. I have never hit a cow, a sheep or a horse. Somethings I do...My headlights are properly adjusted and aimed. They are always clean. I do not over-drive my headlights. I do what the Smith System preaches...I keep my eyes moving. Most importantly...I watch the ditch with my periferal vision. That is the best way to see movement in poor light conditions. Animal eyes also reflect light in a manner far different than reflectors.

This thread isn't about me...it isn't about you.
A man died in an accident that should not have happened. HE had a TRAINER in the truck. That trainer should have been doing the job he was paid for...training. He should have been awake and in the right seat paying attention, not in the sleeper with his eyes closed.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

You didn't read very well young guy.

However...since you want too press it...That accident was at 2:47 AM, May 13, 1997, southbound on I-5 at the Northgate Mall Interchange. The traffic cameras supported my statement, which I had written at the scene. I got to watch the movie 6 weeks after the accident.....when I was informed that it was not an accident at all. The car which hit me, came from 2 lanes to my left, and went under the center of the 4-axle gas tanker-trailer, that I was pulling with a 4-axle truck, which also carried a gas tank mounted on it's chassis. The man driving the car is in prison. He was convicted in AZ, CA, NV and WA of insurance fraud and manslaughter. The WSP is fairly certain that he expected me to run over the car that was on my right front steer position(they arrested him when his buddy rolled on him)...or take the truck off the road. I stayed in my lane through the entire incident. The traffic cameras on I-5 from the Snohomish County line to the scene at Northgate Mall backed my statement at the scene, one hundred percent.

And again. I have been driving since 1979. I have never hit a deer, an elk, or a moose. I have never hit a cow, a sheep or a horse. Somethings I do...My headlights are properly adjusted and aimed. They are always clean. I do not over-drive my headlights. I do what the Smith System preaches...I keep my eyes moving. Most importantly...I watch the ditch with my periferal vision. That is the best way to see movement in poor light conditions. Animal eyes also reflect light in a manner far different than reflectors.

This thread isn't about me...it isn't about you.
A man died in an accident that should not have happened. HE had a TRAINER in the truck. That trainer should have been doing the job he was paid for...training. He should have been awake and in the right seat paying attention, not in the sleeper with his eyes closed.

Like I said you stated you can avoid a deer by using the smith system ...keeping your head lights clean/proprly aimed...not over driving your headlights...yeah ok LOL...oh and using your peripheral vision...Well if you can spot deer in the heavy brush at night with your peripheral vision your real good superman...How do you adapt the smith system to an object that comes from the blind shoulder of the road which can't be seen until it runs infront of you at only 100ft which is well within the range of even low beam ...truth is 300ft of headlight view is still going to be a possible collision at 55-65 with a deer since it's not visible like a car with headlights/markers before your headlights illuminate it at 300ft which the basic math on stoppin at 55-65 says you travel almost 300ft before you even physically start to slow down...which is why hitting a deer is considered non preventable even by big companies who report nearly everything to dac...


Now my point is if you want to insist hitting a deer is preventable by paying attention using your prescribed format then why were'nt you able to see the car using same infoulable prescribed format and avoid the incident afterall it's not like the car jumped out of the brush unexpcted and invisible until bounding out infront of you...Hummm


I question you here because you claim driving heavily deer populated roads frequently for years and do not point to the obvious for not htting an animal ...extreme luck...And bascaly say hitting a deer is an act of being careless...But I guess it is hard to hit a deer on the internet superhighway...lol

[boneebone]

Too funny how everyone is so quick to judge what happened and who's fault it is. I guess a experienced driver never lost control or fell asleep at the wheel, only a Swift driver? Right? Yeah right, I seen plenty of accidents OTR and local and most of them, a good 99% were not Swift or Schneider or any of the big carriers.

Until you know the true circumstances of what happened, don't be so quick to judge.

[Malaki86]

As far as the hitting/not hitting of deer: I obtained my regular drivers license in 1984. I obtained my CDL in 2000. Up to now, knock on wood, I have never hit a deer, or any other wildlife. And, yes, I'm pretty sure that I see wildlife on a daily basis, especially in WV, PA, MD, KY, etc. I have, however, had a couple minor incidents where I've scraped my trailer against other trucks, but this has always happened in dark truckstops when I simply let my mind wander while backing in.

Keep in mind that I live in central WV and take 80k loads through some of the worst roads in the country fairly regularly. I take shortcuts that scare more experienced drivers than myself. I just don't overdrive my truck or my abilities. I also pay attention to what is going on around me.

But, back to the original problem: the team-driver training systems don't actually teach anyone a damn thing, other than how to sleep while the truck is moving.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

As far as the hitting/not hitting of deer: I obtained my regular drivers license in 1984. I obtained my CDL in 2000. Up to now, knock on wood, I have never hit a deer, or any other wildlife. And, yes, I'm pretty sure that I see wildlife on a daily basis, especially in WV, PA, MD, KY, etc. I have, however, had a couple minor incidents where I've scraped my trailer against other trucks, but this has always happened in dark truckstops when I simply let my mind wander while backing in.

Keep in mind that I live in central WV and take 80k loads through some of the worst roads in the country fairly regularly. I take shortcuts that scare more experienced drivers than myself. I just don't overdrive my truck or my abilities. I also pay attention to what is going on around me.

But, back to the original problem: the team-driver training systems don't actually teach anyone a damn thing, other than how to sleep while the truck is moving.

Well I grew up in the foot hills of the adirondacks in up-state NY and moved to the hills of Coloado elevation of about 8,800 FT I drove a personal vehicle for 15 years without hitting a deer ...but hit 2 last year in a semi going 10-15 below the speed limit ...in some cases i'm sure overdriving has resulted in hitting a deer when it could be avoided ,but many times the collision is not avoidable ,because the deer is not standing 300ft ahead of you ,but rather runs out infront of you with 100ft or less room ,and unless your doing 25mph on that 65-75 Mph highway your hitting that deer ...But like I said driving roads populated with wild life frequently and not hitting one is luck ...well unless you consider overdriving going faster than 25-30 on a 65-75 mph road ...For 15 years I never hit an animal and then I nailed 2 in A 2 month time frame both times alert and 10-15 under the limit both times the deer came from the shoulder only becomming visible when 50-100ft in front of the truck these were at night and no special weather conditions existed ...So From my experience in driving deer populated montains everyday of my life I will say if you have'nt hit one yet it's comming .

[Malaki86]

I agree with that. I guess I've just been lucky. I couldn't tell you how many trucks in our fleet have been nailing deer the past month or so. It seems like every time I'm in the shop, someone is coming in with a screwed up hood after coming across I-68 and nailing Bambi.

[TomB985]

Here you go again, BJ...

Attacking something or someone that you know nothing about. You go so far as to tell someone he's lying about his 4-year driving record because he never hit a deer, then Stan comes on and has never hit one in 30.

Nobody can deny there's luck involved here with either hitting two in a year, or not hitting one in 30, but there is ALSO some driving ability there, too!

So, what you really are saying is that you have nothing to add here with the exception of attacking someone who comes on here and knows a lot more about what possibly happened than you do.

Anyway....

What is Swift's policy on training? I know companies, like CR England, expect the trainee to run like a team. Others, like Roehl and Con-Way, insist the trainer be there to instruct, and NOT run as a team. How does Swift do it?

[Syncrosonix]

What is Swift's policy on training? I know companies, like CR England, expect the trainee to run like a team. Others, like Roehl and Con-Way, insist the trainer be there to instruct, and NOT run as a team. How does Swift do it?

my mentor stayed in the passenger seat while i was driving. there are many out there who operate like a team, which i believe is wrong. then again, i am only a company driver. they won't really listen to me. although i've been asked several times if i wanted to become a mentor, and i don't. i don't want to put my life in the hands of somebody who may be incompetent as ****. plus, i like sleeping in a stationary vehicle. one more thing, i also cannot stand it when others snore. snoring or any other annoying sounds while i'm trying to sleep will result in that person not getting any sleep.

[BigDiesel]

. . or the facts straight. And that's a 4 year rookie, by the way.

. . the trainer required some sleep and all good trainers know sleep is best accomplished in the sleeper.

. . OK. But can I use the "How to respond to the flagrant ignoramous . . " pamphlet instead?

Swift operates lots of trucks and employs lots of Drivers. Sooner or later, anyone in this business will observe a Swift Driver doing something stupid, dangerous and/or potentially fatal. It's a numbers game. If two Drivers witness same, they will fire up the truckernuts and holler on the CB. Now everybody's a witness and they'll swear to it! As would be the case in any large organization, some morons do slip through the cracks. I hope, you hope, we all hope they will find their way out of the business without taking anyone else with them.

Swift has a very respectable training program which has placed thousands of Drivers behind the wheel at hundreds of trucking companies. Other companies like hiring Swift Drivers because of the depth of the training, the work ethic and the diverse freight base Swift Drivers are exposed to.

Run along now . . Oh! Start another thread. Ask people to offer their definition of a "Professional Driver". I'd be curious to learn if a neophyte windbag such as yourself would set some kind of standard.

Still waiting for your answer as to why the so called " trainer " was in the bunk......

Oh and one other thing..... Swift does not have a reputable training progam either..... Didja ferget that little thing last spring when the Feds raided their school back east ????

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Here you go again, BJ...

Attacking something or someone that you know nothing about. You go so far as to tell someone he's lying about his 4-year driving record because he never hit a deer, then Stan comes on and has never hit one in 30.

Nobody can deny there's luck involved here with either hitting two in a year, or not hitting one in 30, but there is ALSO some driving ability there, too!

So, what you really are saying is that you have nothing to add here with the exception of attacking someone who comes on here and knows a lot more about what possibly happened than you do.

Anyway....

What is Swift's policy on training? I know companies, like CR England, expect the trainee to run like a team. Others, like Roehl and Con-Way, insist the trainer be there to instruct, and NOT run as a team. How does Swift do it?

I never replied to anyone drivin 4yrs or less ...But it seems niether of our posts add any insight or knowledge the thread topic ...


Now if you're a potential rookie looking for a company that does'nt run student/trainer anything like a team...good luck !...Bcause pretty much all companies have identical policy ...and all companies pretty much run you the same...Yes there are a few trainers that run like a solo ...some even straight who just like to teach and share a sleeping space of 6x8 ft lol...but the majority do it to make decent money at these big carriers ,so your chance of getting a selfless saint are slim...after all what really normal guy wants to risk his life and have his privacy invaded for maybe an extra $150wk trainer pay on top of a rookie students solo miles if the company even pays trainer extra...many pay just cpm for all miles rolled and some even drop cpm a cent or 2 ...And finally you can wreck and kill the trainer just fine with trainer sitting in the jump seat training you proper ...what sane individual would bother with that risk for solo rookie student mile pay and maybe an extra $150 wk.

[dobry4u]

Still waiting for your answer as to why the so called " trainer " was in the bunk......

Oh and one other thing..... Swift does not have a reputable training progam either..... Didja ferget that little thing last spring when the Feds raided their school back east ????

Ah.. we have found the new "Carnac the Magnificent" ...

and exactly what was the purpose of the raid and what was it's outcome?

[jd112488]

how does one train with their eyes closed laying down with the curtain pulled? if he was a trainer at all he would have at LEAST been awake and aware as to what was going on with HIS truck. this so called trainer is responsible for someone dying. had he been doing his job then he MAY have been able to prevent this tragedy. and that goes for any trainer with any company!!!

[Orangetxguy]

Like I said you stated you can avoid a deer by using the smith system ...keeping your head lights clean/proprly aimed...not over driving your headlights...yeah ok LOL...oh and using your peripheral vision...Well if you can spot deer in the heavy brush at night with your peripheral vision your real good superman...How do you adapt the smith system to an object that comes from the blind shoulder of the road which can't be seen until it runs infront of you at only 100ft which is well within the range of even low beam ...truth is 300ft of headlight view is still going to be a possible collision at 55-65 with a deer since it's not visible like a car with headlights/markers before your headlights illuminate it at 300ft which the basic math on stoppin at 55-65 says you travel almost 300ft before you even physically start to slow down...which is why hitting a deer is considered non preventable even by big companies who report nearly everything to dac...


Now my point is if you want to insist hitting a deer is preventable by paying attention using your prescribed format then why were'nt you able to see the car using same infoulable prescribed format and avoid the incident afterall it's not like the car jumped out of the brush unexpcted and invisible until bounding out infront of you...Hummm


I question you here because you claim driving heavily deer populated roads frequently for years and do not point to the obvious for not htting an animal ...extreme luck...And bascaly say hitting a deer is an act of being careless...But I guess it is hard to hit a deer on the internet superhighway...lol

You know....this is going to be my last comment to you Big.

You started right off calling me a liar in so many words. You can go back through my posts to you in this discussion and cut and paste where I have said hitting a deer was an act of carelessness. I don't believe I did..but if you can point it out...please do.

I have never hit a deer, an elk, or a moose, a cow, a sheep or a horse, while driving my personal vehicle, a farm vehicle or a commercial vehicle. There....that statement goes back to when I was 12 years old and first started driving. I grew up in Southwest Montana. Plenty of all of the described animals on the roads there, year round.
I have seen lot's of animals killed on the roads of this country. I have seen plenty of PEOPLE killed while walking along the roads of this country. I have had friends and even a brother hit animals. Nobody I know has ever killed a Human walking along a road.
My father hit a cow in 1970. He was driving a 1948 farm truck loaded with hay. The cow was standing in the middle of his lane. He hit it at speed, because he was pouring himself a cup of coffee from his thermos and did not see the cow. It was a Black Angus. he got a traffic ticket because he hit the cow. In Montana "Cattle" have the right of way on roadways.

In my accident, I was aware that the car that hit me was on my left side. I was not paying a great deal of attention to that car however, because there was a car that had come onto the roadway back at the Sno-King line, which, instead of speeding off down the road like most cars and pickups do in the Seattle metro area at 2 AM, was pacing me right at my steer axle. Once the car failed to drive away from me, it became the focus of my attention. I was prepared to stop "If" that car made it's way into my lane of travel. When I saw that other car going under my trailer I like to have crapped my shorts, but I did not make a panic manuever, I stayed in my lane, and stopped in a straight line, in my lane. My trailer tore that car up, it was a 1989 Nissan Sentra, then spit it back out from under the trailer, sending it skidding across 4 lanes of I-5, into the center barrier wall, just short of the start of the Express Lanes, which were open to southbound traffic.

Right up until the WSP informed ARCO about what they saw on the traffic tapes, I EXPECTED to be fired for the accident. Until they showed me the movie, I held myself at fault, for not having seen the car headed into my trailer sooner, for not having gotten off the freeway, once the car that was camped on my steer did not clear...for any number of reasons...I held myself at fault.
In 1997 every driver employeed at ARCO, was shown that tape of my accident, to make them aware of the fact that cars and people were out there on the roadway, seeking money by having accidents with trucks. The man driving that Nissan was convicted of Insurance Fraud and Manslaughter. He and his friends had caused accidents, some of which resulted in death, in AZ, CA, NV and WA. The man in the Nissan was incredibly lucky that the trailer simply spit his car back out from under the tank. It could have been much more sever an accident, and the little "Peckerhead" could have...and should have..died.
Some of those accidents in CA and AZ involved Werner, Swift and Knight trucks. Sward trucking was involved in one particularly bad accident...8 people died in it. Sward is a flatbed carrier based in CA. All those accidents were determined to be Insurance Fraud, and were classified as Crimes, not accidents.

Now..Once again...My position on the accident..which Big Diesel started this topic about, IS......

This thread isn't about me...it isn't about you.
A man died in an accident that should not have happened. HE had a TRAINER in the truck. That trainer should have been doing the job he was paid for...training. He should have been awake and in the right seat paying attention, not in the sleeper with his eyes closed.


If there were circumstances that caused Mr. Fay to swerve to avoid another vehicle, then the traffic cameras will show it, and the WSP will act upon it. IF they see another car had beeninvolved with the truck at the scene.....one that was not present when they all arrived at the scene of the accident...the WSP will use City, County and State cameras to track down any car that might have been involved. They are very good at their jobs.


I feel bad for Mr. Fay's family and friends. He should not be dead. Something was going on that the trainer should have indentified, controlled and corrected, from the right seat, where he belonged. THAT IS MY POSITION.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

You know....this is going to be my last comment to you Big.

You started right off calling me a liar in so many words. You can go back through my posts to you in this discussion and cut and paste where I have said hitting a deer was an act of carelessness. I don't believe I did..but if you can point it out...please do.

I have never hit a deer, an elk, or a moose, a cow, a sheep or a horse, while driving my personal vehicle, a farm vehicle or a commercial vehicle. There....that statement goes back to when I was 12 years old and first started driving. I grew up in Southwest Montana. Plenty of all of the described animals on the roads there, year round.
I have seen lot's of animals killed on the roads of this country. I have seen plenty of PEOPLE killed while walking along the roads of this country. I have had friends and even a brother hit animals. Nobody I know has ever killed a Human walking along a road.
My father hit a cow in 1970. He was driving a 1948 farm truck loaded with hay. The cow was standing in the middle of his lane. He hit it at speed, because he was pouring himself a cup of coffee from his thermos and did not see the cow. It was a Black Angus. he got a traffic ticket because he hit the cow. In Montana "Cattle" have the right of way on roadways.

In my accident, I was aware that the car that hit me was on my left side. I was not paying a great deal of attention to that car however, because there was a car that had come onto the roadway back at the Sno-King line, which, instead of speeding off down the road like most cars and pickups do in the Seattle metro area at 2 AM, was pacing me right at my steer axle. Once the car failed to drive away from me, it became the focus of my attention. I was prepared to stop "If" that car made it's way into my lane of travel. When I saw that other car going under my trailer I like to have crapped my shorts, but I did not make a panic manuever, I stayed in my lane, and stopped in a straight line, in my lane. My trailer tore that car up, it was a 1989 Nissan Sentra, then spit it back out from under the trailer, sending it skidding across 4 lanes of I-5, into the center barrier wall, just short of the start of the Express Lanes, which were open to southbound traffic.

Right up until the WSP informed ARCO about what they saw on the traffic tapes, I EXPECTED to be fired for the accident. Until they showed me the movie, I held myself at fault, for not having seen the car headed into my trailer sooner, for not having gotten off the freeway, once the car that was camped on my steer did not clear...for any number of reasons...I held myself at fault.
In 1997 every driver employeed at ARCO, was shown that tape of my accident, to make them aware of the fact that cars and people were out there on the roadway, seeking money by having accidents with trucks. The man driving that Nissan was convicted of Insurance Fraud and Manslaughter. He and his friends had caused accidents, some of which resulted in death, in AZ, CA, NV and WA. The man in the Nissan was incredibly lucky that the trailer simply spit his car back out from under the tank. It could have been much more sever an accident, and the little "Peckerhead" could have...and should have..died.
Some of those accidents in CA and AZ involved Werner, Swift and Knight trucks. Sward trucking was involved in one particularly bad accident...8 people died in it. Sward is a flatbed carrier based in CA. All those accidents were determined to be Insurance Fraud, and were classified as Crimes, not accidents.

Now..Once again...My position on the accident..which Big Diesel started this topic about, IS......

This thread isn't about me...it isn't about you.
A man died in an accident that should not have happened. HE had a TRAINER in the truck. That trainer should have been doing the job he was paid for...training. He should have been awake and in the right seat paying attention, not in the sleeper with his eyes closed.


If there were circumstances that caused Mr. Fay to swerve to avoid another vehicle, then the traffic cameras will show it, and the WSP will act upon it. IF they see another car had beeninvolved with the truck at the scene.....one that was not present when they all arrived at the scene of the accident...the WSP will use City, County and State cameras to track down any car that might have been involved. They are very good at their jobs.


I feel bad for Mr. Fay's family and friends. He should not be dead. Something was going on that the trainer should have indentified, controlled and corrected, from the right seat, where he belonged. THAT IS MY POSITION.

Well your a lucky driver nothing more to it...Oh and the new avatar looks like you stoll it off a dollar store t-shirt... you might consider getting the old one back.

[jd112488]

i find it amusing that when someone points out the faults in big jeeps logic he is quick with a school yard quip that trys to attack someone. it is lucky that orange never hit a deer, but there is good information in what he said, and anyone with a brain would see that. he simply stated some facts about safe driving techniques, and states that he uses those in his day day to driving. this time of year if you are not looking and anticipating a deer to come out or just be standing in front of you then i will say that you are not a safe driver. if you are a trainer that goes to the bunk and sleeps when your trainee is driving then i would say you are a piece of **** scumbucket that has not right even driving a truck. all that guy in the bunk was doing was making extra money for himself, he had zero interest in teaching that driver any of the things that orange mentioned regarding safe driving. and the only thing that is even close to being as bad about the guy loosing his life, is the fact that, that dumb basturd will probably be training again here shortly.

in regards to the swift training, any company that would allow a trainer to sleep while the 3 week trainee drive is an assbag company that should be removed from this industry one way or another. but all of these so called training companies do this all the time, so lets not just judge swift. there are other piece of **** companies that do this to make money just like all the others. they get team miles out of a solo truck and pay the trainee 300 bucks a week to run a team operation and teach themselves to drive.

so lets here it big jeep, insult the pic of angus or something to try to get a rise out of me. or better yet you better take your ball and go home...you are way outmatched here by people that know far far more than you. and i don't mean myself..guys like orange, tf, big d, etc.

[TomB985]

Good post, JD....

Now if you're a potential rookie looking for a company that does'nt run student/trainer anything like a team...good luck !...Bcause pretty much all companies have identical policy ...and all companies pretty much run you the same...Yes there are a few trainers that run like a solo ...some even straight who just like to teach and share a sleeping space of 6x8 ft lol...but the majority do it to make decent money at these big carriers ,so your chance of getting a selfless saint are slim...after all what really normal guy wants to risk his life and have his privacy invaded for maybe an extra $150wk trainer pay on top of a rookie students solo miles if the company even pays trainer extra...many pay just cpm for all miles rolled and some even drop cpm a cent or 2 ...And finally you can wreck and kill the trainer just fine with trainer sitting in the jump seat training you proper ...what sane individual would bother with that risk for solo rookie student mile pay and maybe an extra $150 wk.

"pretty much all the companies", huh? Funny how, the only two companies I have EVER worked for driving a truck strictly do NOT PERMIT RUNNING AS A TEAM. CRE is the only big company I know of that makes a policy of it...but I didn't know about most others, such as Swift. That's why I ASKED...and did not ASSume.