Hazmat and railroad tracks.

[ajritter04]

I do have my X endorsement, and I do know all the rules and what not about a placarded hazmat load and RR crossing.... 15 feet / 50 feet, no shifting while going over the tracks, etc.

What I'm asking for is more of a personal opinion.

I drive a field service truck for a local construction company. It's a straight truck with an 1100 gallon fuel tank (for fueling the equipment, not the truck itself) for #2 diesel fuel (the red dyed off-road stuff). On the only road that leads to the storage yard where the truck is located there is a set of railroad tracks that is not in use, and hasn't been for at least 15 - 20 years.

There is no safety equipment (crossing arms, lights, audible waring) anywhere in the vicinity of the crossing and there is a chain link fence across the tracks approximately 20 yards on either side of the road.

Would you bother stopping?

BTW, I do put my 4-ways on, stop, and do all the other jazz on all other RR crossings, just curious to see what some of you have to say. :wink:

[Windwalker]

I do have my X endorsement, and I do know all the rules and what not about a placarded hazmat load and RR crossing.... 15 feet / 50 feet, no shifting while going over the tracks, etc.

What I'm asking for is more of a personal opinion.

I drive a field service truck for a local construction company. It's a straight truck with an 1100 gallon fuel tank (for fueling the equipment, not the truck itself) for #2 diesel fuel (the red dyed off-road stuff). On the only road that leads to the storage yard where the truck is located there is a set of railroad tracks that is not in use, and hasn't been for at least 15 - 20 years.

There is no safety equipment (crossing arms, lights, audible waring) anywhere in the vicinity of the crossing and there is a chain link fence across the tracks approximately 20 yards on either side of the road.

Would you bother stopping?

BTW, I do put my 4-ways on, stop, and do all the other jazz on all other RR crossings, just curious to see what some of you have to say. :wink:

Is there also a sign saying "EXEMPT" or "ABANDONED"? If so, you should not have to stop... Unless the rules have changed since I hauled hasmat. If that fence has gates across the tracks, it is still available for use, but if no gates, the tracks are most likely considered abandoned. You would not have to stop.

Good practice, though.

[Roadhog]

...I'd drive right through, but then feel paranoid for the next 30 minutes waiting for the Men in Black. :?

Bring this to the attention of the Township maybe?

[ajritter04]

No signs, exempt or otherwise, or really any way to tell there is a set of tracks there except for the tracks themselves. The tracks have obviously not been used in a looooooooong time, but there are still tracks there.

Personally, I've never stopped at that crossing due to the fact that the chance of a train coming down those tracks is about as good as my dog successfully running for president. It is in an industrial area and NMDOT likes to hang out on some of the roads near there and hit up the dirt / rock haulers to see what they can be fined with.

"But sir, ain't no choo-choo been down them tracks in years."

[Fredog]

I do have my X endorsement, and I do know all the rules and what not about a placarded hazmat load and RR crossing.... 15 feet / 50 feet, no shifting while going over the tracks, etc.

What I'm asking for is more of a personal opinion.

I drive a field service truck for a local construction company. It's a straight truck with an 1100 gallon fuel tank (for fueling the equipment, not the truck itself) for #2 diesel fuel (the red dyed off-road stuff). On the only road that leads to the storage yard where the truck is located there is a set of railroad tracks that is not in use, and hasn't been for at least 15 - 20 years.

There is no safety equipment (crossing arms, lights, audible waring) anywhere in the vicinity of the crossing and there is a chain link fence across the tracks approximately 20 yards on either side of the road.

Would you bother stopping?

BTW, I do put my 4-ways on, stop, and do all the other jazz on all other RR crossings, just curious to see what some of you have to say. :wink:

the penalty now is no less than 60 days disqualification, not worth it, read more here if you're interested
http://www.oli.org/training/professi...quirements.htm

[classB]

No signs, exempt or otherwise, or really any way to tell there is a set of tracks there except for the tracks themselves. The tracks have obviously not been used in a looooooooong time, but there are still tracks there.

Personally, I've never stopped at that crossing due to the fact that the chance of a train coming down those tracks is about as good as my dog successfully running for president. It is in an industrial area and NMDOT likes to hang out on some of the roads near there and hit up the dirt / rock haulers to see what they can be fined with.

"But sir, ain't no choo-choo been down them tracks in years."

If it does not say EXEMPT then you must stop. There are some train tracks that get used only once a week. Just because there are no gates does not mean a train won't come rolling through, and probably at a higher speed than in town centers.

What do you think the result would be of a train doing 60mph hitting your 1100 tank of fuel?

[belpre122]

I'm gonna go with classB all the way on this one. I know that you have noted that there are chains across the tracks, etc.

The only possible way that you could be wrong, is to not stop. Why chance it? CDL disqualification would definitely not be a good thing. (a police officer in a particularly bad mood can make life difficult :wink: )

I understand the spirit of your inquiry. Why not then contact the railroad/law enforcement regarding installation of 'out of service' signs at this location.

It is in an industrial area and NMDOT likes to hang out on some of the roads near there and hit up the dirt / rock haulers to see what they can be fined with.

You just answered your own question. :wink:

Play it safe. Protect your CDL. :wink:

[ajritter04]

The tracks are obviously not in use, but with DOT in the area...better safe than sorry I suppose. 8)

[bigtimba]

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?I...ubCategoryID=0

" . . It was one of those "Whew! That was a close one!" moments for 54-year-old Goffus of Malvern, who was traveling his normal route to the Alliance Water Treatment Plant from American Landfill. It's the same route he drives for JMW Trucking Co. of Canton five times a day.

Yet he'd never seen a train use the tracks on state Route 44 . . "

I'd say that unless and until they post the crossing or rip up the tracks, you ought to be stopping. Or, take a little time this weekend and make up a couple signs of your own . .

[Windwalker]

You're ALL failing to address one issue.

There is no safety equipment (crossing arms, lights, audible waring) anywhere in the vicinity of the crossing and there is a chain link fence across the tracks approximately 20 yards on either side of the road.

If that chain-link fence has gates across the tracks, it can still be used. If that fence has no gates across the tracks, the tracks can not be used by a train without taking the fence down or plowing through it. I have also seen a few places where the tracks are still across the road, but go 100 feet to either side of the road, and the tracks and ties have been taken up and only the bare road bed is left. That would mean that the tracks will not be in use, they have been abandoned.

I would also suggest checking with one of the local officers (cops) for the status, because likely as not, if you're going to get a ticket, they'll be the ones to give it to you.

[Orangetxguy]

You're ALL failing to address one issue.

There is no safety equipment (crossing arms, lights, audible waring) anywhere in the vicinity of the crossing and there is a chain link fence across the tracks approximately 20 yards on either side of the road.

If that chain-link fence has gates across the tracks, it can still be used. If that fence has no gates across the tracks, the tracks can not be used by a train without taking the fence down or plowing through it. I have also seen a few places where the tracks are still across the road, but go 100 feet to either side of the road, and the tracks and ties have been taken up and only the bare road bed is left. That would mean that the tracks will not be in use, they have been abandoned.

I would also suggest checking with one of the local officers (cops) for the status, because likely as not, if you're going to get a ticket, they'll be the ones to give it to you.

There is the rub. You say there are no "Cross Bucks" where the road crosses the tracks, and that there is chain link fencing across the tracks on either side of the roadway.

If it is an active railroad crossing, the railroad that uses it must have the minimum warning signs, of "Cross Bucks" at the tracks, on both sides, as well as warnings 250 feet before the crossings themselves. Those are usually the round signs, yellow background, with either the words "Railroad Crossing Ahead", or the simple "cross bucks", in black paint, on the signs.
Windy is right...talk with the "Locals". If it is indeed an active crossing, then the railroad needs to mark it as such.

As far as "Active" crossings go....stop as you described, proceed with caution...NEVER stop with any portion of your unit within 15 feet of either side of the track. IF a light changes while you are in the process of crossing the tracks, from green to red(you are supposed to already have you emergency flashers running), you need to immediately begin sounding your air horn, three long and loud blasts, repeated until you clear the crossing AND the road intersection. You start honking that air horn as soon as you see the amber light. If you must do so for safety, turn right and alter your route. The big thing is getting that air horn blowing as soon as you see a light flip from green to amber, before it goes red. You will scare the crap out of people...but better that than other "consequences".

Crossing railroad tracks is a dangerous operation, with HazMat, especially in high volume traffic. I usually try and route myself around street level crossings, to use over passes or under passes. But sometimes you just can not.

[ajritter04]

Just for the sake of safety and to avoid being hassled by any local cops or DOT, I have been stopping at any and all RR crossing, regardless of how derelict they appear.

At any rate, in this particular part of the city, there are miles and miles upon more miles of railroad tracks that don't go anywhere, switch tracks that stop at a building (i.e. the land was previously owned by a railroad, sold to a private party, and the track removed up to the property line), signs for RR crossings where there are no tracks, tracks that are rarely used but not marked at all, etc.

It's a very screwy situation all the way around as far as being able to tell by looking whether or not a track is active. To give another example, about 3/4 mile away, there are crossing arms and signs at a railroad crossing - however, the rail stops approximately 30 yards onto property owned by General Mills (the cereal manufacturer) and ends in a big pile of weeds and debris. In the opposite direction, this particular spur connects back to a mainline that is currently in use by a commuter train.

Logic would dictate that any train that takes that spur would derail once it entered the General Mills property, so there is obviously not going to be a train using that crossing. At the same time, it is marked and does have crossing arms.....so.....

Stuff like that is what prompted me to ask my original question.

[belpre122]

Stuff like that is what prompted me to ask my original question.

An excellent question/subject that can not be revisited too many times!

IF a light changes while you are in the process of crossing the tracks, from green to red(you are supposed to already have you emergency flashers running), you need to immediately begin sounding your air horn, three long and loud blasts, repeated until you clear the crossing AND the road intersection. You start honking that air horn as soon as you see the amber light. If you must do so for safety, turn right and alter your route. The big thing is getting that air horn blowing as soon as you see a light flip from green to amber, before it goes red. You will scare the crap out of people...but better that than other "consequences".

Stan, I have never been trained regarding that particular circumstance. I have now. Thanks!

It's almost like you have done this for years. :wink:

Again, Thank you.

[Orangetxguy]

Stuff like that is what prompted me to ask my original question.

An excellent question/subject that can not be revisited too many times!

IF a light changes while you are in the process of crossing the tracks, from green to red(you are supposed to already have you emergency flashers running), you need to immediately begin sounding your air horn, three long and loud blasts, repeated until you clear the crossing AND the road intersection. You start honking that air horn as soon as you see the amber light. If you must do so for safety, turn right and alter your route. The big thing is getting that air horn blowing as soon as you see a light flip from green to amber, before it goes red. You will scare the crap out of people...but better that than other "consequences".

Stan, I have never been trained regarding that particular circumstance. I have now. Thanks!

It's almost like you have done this for years. :wink:

Again, Thank you.

Ummmm...Yeah.....We had more than our fair share of "Street Level" crossings to deal with in Seattle. One major pain in the Patootie, was a crossing up at Ferndale WA, east of CherryPoint refinery. The mainline for passenger trains coming down out of Canada..and up to Canada. They fly through there at 65..75 mph. East of the crossing, 20 feet, was a 4 way stop. We managed to convince the terminal manager that the company needed to have sitdown's with Whatcom county sheriff's office, the WA state patrol, AMTRAK and Burlington Northern. What I described was what they all came up with, for HazMat at rail crossings. That one crossing, they determined had over 400 hazmat crossings a day occur by truck. 4-wheelers were not allowing the trucks time to clear the tracks.
"Project Lifesaver" was supposed to take it (Blowing the airhorn with 3 long blasts repeated until clear) nationwide...but I don't know if they did. ARCO switched from the regular airhorns to small "train" horns in 1996. Made a heck of a difference with 4-wheelers hearing the truck.

The big thing is clearing the track. A van or flatbed getting wiped by a train is a bad deal...a gasoline tanker...I don't care to be there...a Propane tanker or a Chemical tanker...Ummmmmmmmm...nope...color me gone!!!!

[matcat]

Or, take a little time this weekend and make up a couple signs of your own . .

so I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said thank you Lord for thinking about me, I'm alive and doing fine
Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

[Orangetxguy]

Or, take a little time this weekend and make up a couple signs of your own . .

so I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said thank you Lord for thinking about me, I'm alive and doing fine
Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

TOO FUNNY! That song is playing right now, on the radio station I am listening to.

[Hwyfly]

Pretty good their Madcat!

[classB]

Just for the sake of safety and to avoid being hassled by any local cops or DOT, I have been stopping at any and all RR crossing, regardless of how derelict they appear.

At any rate, in this particular part of the city, there are miles and miles upon more miles of railroad tracks that don't go anywhere, switch tracks that stop at a building (i.e. the land was previously owned by a railroad, sold to a private party, and the track removed up to the property line), signs for RR crossings where there are no tracks, tracks that are rarely used but not marked at all, etc.

It's a very screwy situation all the way around as far as being able to tell by looking whether or not a track is active. To give another example, about 3/4 mile away, there are crossing arms and signs at a railroad crossing - however, the rail stops approximately 30 yards onto property owned by General Mills (the cereal manufacturer) and ends in a big pile of weeds and debris. In the opposite direction, this particular spur connects back to a mainline that is currently in use by a commuter train.

Logic would dictate that any train that takes that spur would derail once it entered the General Mills property, so there is obviously not going to be a train using that crossing. At the same time, it is marked and does have crossing arms.....so.....

Stuff like that is what prompted me to ask my original question.

FYI... lots of train crossings now have cameras. So if you cross without stopping they can send the $500 ticket in the mail. And all trains have camera's taking video.

And make sure to cross in the lowest gear. You don't want to stall while on the tracks.

[belpre122]

FYI... lots of train crossings now have cameras.

That is the first I had heard of the cams at RR crossings CB! I guess that it shouldn't come as any surprise though. Thanks for the heads up!

[Allen Smith]

I do have my X endorsement, and I do know all the rules and what not about a placarded hazmat load and RR crossing.... 15 feet / 50 feet, no shifting while going over the tracks, etc.

What I'm asking for is more of a personal opinion.

I drive a field service truck for a local construction company. It's a straight truck with an 1100 gallon fuel tank (for fueling the equipment, not the truck itself) for #2 diesel fuel (the red dyed off-road stuff). On the only road that leads to the storage yard where the truck is located there is a set of railroad tracks that is not in use, and hasn't been for at least 15 - 20 years.

There is no safety equipment (crossing arms, lights, audible waring) anywhere in the vicinity of the crossing and there is a chain link fence across the tracks approximately 20 yards on either side of the road.

Would you bother stopping?

BTW, I do put my 4-ways on, stop, and do all the other jazz on all other RR crossings, just curious to see what some of you have to say. :wink:

I also travel into a port with a rail road crossing such as this....I always stop, regardless of this part of the track being closed.....what's another 5 seconds? I'd rather stop than risk getting a ticket from an officer who doesn't know the rules....and there are a bunch of them out there.....I would stop.......