Just an Thought About The Turnover Rate

[Hawkjr]

i have a thought, albeit i'm not yet a driver so if you guys give me heat just be easy and tell me if i'm wrong or not and i'll accept it..
I'm in school right now to get my cdl and so on.. i've been wanting to be a truck driver since i was 3 years old, from my dad, to 3 uncles, and a few cousins i've always been around and riding in trucks. Since i was a kid i was never the type to just sit and play video games or jump back in the sleeper and go to sleep in the truck, i was always up and asking questions (not to the point to get on my family nerves), so i've known about the industry and what i was about to get into since i was young..

The point i'm trying to get to is that so many of these "Coolie Carriers" put ad's in the paper saying free training, make up to $45,000 your first year and get great hometime!! Little do the general public knows who calls to respond to that ad, that don't usual know about the one year contract and if u break it you owe up to $6,000, and if they recruiter tells them, he usual does he's job and sells him on, little do they know that making up to $35 to $45 thousand is nearly impossible unless they run team with some person they don't know or never go home for months at a time, and the recruiter also tells them that yeah "you will be home every weekend" little do he know that means getting in sometime saturday and leaving on early mid day sunday... Once that driver who went through all that mess from training to on the road training, and found out 3 to 4 months down the road that if he's not going to make no more than $400 to $500 dollars a week for sometime (and i hear thats for a good week at .30 cents a mile), get's tired of only being home 34 hours on a weekend which he thought he would have the whole weekend off and see's that another coolie carrier will offer him better which they won't he'll get mad and quit his current job.. cause little did he know he didn't know what he was getting into and went on some guy word who odds are have never even been inside of a truck before and neither did he..

Me on the other hand, i know the questions to ask these clowns and i also know what i'm getting to.. another is i'm looking around both local and otr position which i know could best suit me. Since i'm 21 and i live in a remote area in virginia i know OTR is a big possibility for me. I've heard other trainees talk about how their going to make such and such money when they first get out that it's funny!! sure u can make hell of money so what i've heard by first starting delivering cokes, propane tanks, and being a local P&D drivers, but they see those orange pumpkins and the big blue going up and down 95 and based on what that guy told them on the phone that they are going to make over 40 just starting off.. and i just laugh... for example schenider has the wal mart dedicated in zion cross in virginia.. the recruiter came to my school and told me that i could make over 35 my first year!! i looked at him and said "dude i did the research, how could i make 35 first starting off at .30 cents a mile only running 2000 a week if i'm lucky with no stop or drop and hook pay??" i got pure silence from him and all he could do was look at my trainer and go "where did you get this kid from" Cause i did my home work, know what i'm getting into, and be damn if i'm going to go with a company i'm going to quit 3 to 4 months down the road..

PLAIN AND SIMPLE, NEW DRIVERS NEED TO DO THE RESEARCH OR ASK SOME FAMILY AND FRIENDS BEFORE GETTING INTO THIS TYPE OF WORK.. KNOW WHAT YOUR GETTING INTO.. DON'T SAY TRUCKING SUCKS OR YOU GOT SCREWED CAUSE YOU DIDNT KNOW WHAT YOUR GETTING INTO... I'VE READ PLENTY OF STORIES ON THIS BOARD AND FACT OF THE MATTER WAS IT SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS THE NEW DRIVER, NOT THE COMPANY, WHO WAS PROMISED EVERYTHING THE RECRUITER ONCE TOLD HIM AND HE HATES TRUCKING TO A T!!! DONT GO ON THE WORD OF A DORKY TEENAGE GUY OR GIRL SITTING BEHIND A DESK READING A COMPUTER...

Thats the reason i think the turnover rate is so high

guys you can tell me if i'm wrong or not...

[Evinrude]

Turnover rate is caused by companies paying low wages and the availability of new student drivers.

That's why I always say If driver TRAINORS would drive solo, all current drivers pay would go up.

[Sealord]

"i'm 21" You're gonna be limited in the companies that will take you on due to your age. But since you've done the research, I'm sure you already know that. BOL

[GMAN]

There are a number of reasons why there is such a high turnover in trucking. There are some recruiters who are not truthful with new applicants. There are also some applicants who are not truthful with the recruiters. There is also a problem with many carriers who hire people to dispatch who have no driving experience. This can create conflicts with the driver by having unrealistic expectations from the driver. Rather than trying to work through the conflict the driver will often quite and go to the next carrier. I have been a proponent of only hiring dispatchers who have at least 2 years of driving experience.

Part of the reason is the quality of new drivers coming into the industry. While some are good and have a good work ethic, many do not. A driver will leave one company and go to another for as little as a penny a mile raise. For those who complain about low driver compensation, you need to look at some of these drivers and how they take care of their equipment. I have seen some new trucks that have been trashed by the drivers. It costs a lot of money to detail that truck for the next driver. Some won't even raise the hood to check the oil and water. The more money a carrier has to spend on keeping up their equipment the less money their is for driver pay. To be honest, I have seen some drivers who aren't worth what they are being paid. On the other hand, there are those who give the extra effort and will eventually be compensated for their extra care.

There are false expectations by some who come into this business. Many problems could be alevieated by good communication. There are those who expect top pay right out of driving school. About the only thing you learn in driving school is how to get a CDL. The real learning comes when you get with your trainer and start hitting the open road.

I think many of the large carriers have contributed to this high turnover by hiring people to fill seats instead of looking deeper at the individual and their work habits. If a drive moves around a lot then he is likely looking for something that he won't find in this industry. Some companies will hire about anyone who has a CDL. That can also contribute to the turnover rate.

The main thing is to do your homework about this industry and the carrier for whom you plan on working. Carriers may move the numbers around, but most compensate their drivers about the same. There are some who pay more. Those carriers tend to be a little more selective.

When you look at the turnover rates they can be misleading. Much of the turnover is from those moving from one carrier to another. There are those who decide to leave the industry, but the raw numbers don't tell the entire story. There is much more movement within the industry than he raw numbers would indicate. It would be good to have numbers that would break down the figures to those moving to another carrier to those leaving the industry.

Driving a truck is much different than most other jobs. You are away from home for extended times and basically live a different lifestyle than other types of jobs. Most people don't live and work in the same place. In trucking you take two steps from your work place to your bed. Some people thrive in this type of environment. Others falter. It is difficult to compare otr driving with any other job. There really isn't any other job quite like driving otr.

After 18 years in this biz...doing everything from loading package cars at UPS to logistics in the Air Force to management at FedEx to multi-stop produce to LTL and mail hauling...I've come to several conclusions:

1) there is no driver "shortage", just a lack of blue-collar Americans willing to be used, abused, short-changed, lied-to, stolen from, hung out to dry, ripped-off, blamed for everything, disrespected, etc.
2) log 70, work 80-100, paid for 50.
3) the vast majority of OTR van/reefer haulers stink to high heaven.
4) most good trucking jobs are union or there exists some type of union influence in the biz whereby other non-union companies pay close to union scale (LTL is a good example).
5) the industry at large is trying their darndest to put illegal aliens behind their wheels by falsely promoting said driver "shortage" (see #1).
6) deregulation of the industry was good for consumers and investors but terrible for drivers.

It's true you gotta have a plan to reach the brass ring in this biz, but as time marches on that ring gets higher and higher and higher as more and more good-paying truckin' jobs go by the wayside. Dunno that I'd enter this profession if I could roll the clock back and have another go at it. But as long as I'm pulling down a good buck, I'll keep on truckin' I guess.

[Mackman]

After 18 years in this biz...doing everything from loading package cars at UPS to logistics in the Air Force to management at FedEx to multi-stop produce to LTL and mail hauling...I've come to several conclusions:

1) there is no driver "shortage", just a lack of blue-collar Americans willing to be used, abused, short-changed, lied-to, stolen from, hung out to dry, ripped-off, blamed for everything, disrespected, etc.
2) log 70, work 80-100, paid for 50.
3) the vast majority of OTR van/reefer haulers stink to high heaven.
4) most good trucking jobs are union or there exists some type of union influence in the biz whereby other non-union companies pay close to union scale (LTL is a good example).
5) the industry at large is trying their darndest to put illegal aliens behind their wheels by falsely promoting said driver "shortage" (see #1).
6) deregulation of the industry was good for consumers and investors but terrible for drivers.

It's true you gotta have a plan to reach the brass ring in this biz, but as time marches on that ring gets higher and higher and higher as more and more good-paying truckin' jobs go by the wayside.

Very well said LBJ. I dont understand how anyone can disagree with you.

[Evinrude]

After 18 years in this biz...doing everything from loading package cars at UPS to logistics in the Air Force to management at FedEx to multi-stop produce to LTL and mail hauling...I've come to several conclusions:

1) there is no driver "shortage", just a lack of blue-collar Americans willing to be used, abused, short-changed, lied-to, stolen from, hung out to dry, ripped-off, blamed for everything, disrespected, etc.
2) log 70, work 80-100, paid for 50.
3) the vast majority of OTR van/reefer haulers stink to high heaven.
4) most good trucking jobs are union or there exists some type of union influence in the biz whereby other non-union companies pay close to union scale (LTL is a good example).
5) the industry at large is trying their darndest to put illegal aliens behind their wheels by falsely promoting said driver "shortage" (see #1).
6) deregulation of the industry was good for consumers and investors but terrible for drivers.

It's true you gotta have a plan to reach the brass ring in this biz, but as time marches on that ring gets higher and higher and higher as more and more good-paying truckin' jobs go by the wayside.

Very well said LBJ. I dont understand how anyone can disagree with you.

Well said LBJ.

If I was young, OTR would be the last job on this planet I would want.

Wait until next year when the Mexican Carriers Pilot Project is finished (September 08 ) and the border is wide open, rates are going fall and fuel is going to keep rising.

[bigtimba]

[quote="GMAN"]

When you look at the turnover rates they can be misleading. Much of the turnover is from those moving from one carrier to another. There are those who decide to leave the industry, but the raw numbers don't tell the entire story. There is much more movement within the industry than he raw numbers would indicate. It would be good to have numbers that would break down the figures to those moving to another carrier to those leaving the industry.
quote]

Our resident recruiters will (should) be able to provide some real numbers. No need to divulge company numbers but if they have industry numbers, I'd like to see them. My company keeps exit interview numbers but I have no idea where to find them.

My understanding is that #1 is GONE! It's high . . something like 50% of all new to driving Drivers are gone within 6 months and most of them just didn't like it for any number of reasons.

As to the "Driver shortage" . . The law of supply and demand would dictate wages should be rising. If there is a shortage, the law is being broken.

[GMAN]

I was in Carney's Point at the Flying J yesterday. While in the restroom, there were a couple of maintenance men talking. They were discussing something about an electrical problem in the store. One told the other that he wasn't going to do anything with electricity. He didn't want to learn anything or know how to do anything other than what he was doing. He said that the more he did the more the company would expect. He only wanted to do just what he had to do to keep his job. In fact, he started to talk to himself after the other guy left. I am not sure he even cared whether he kept his job or not. This guy didn't seem to understand that when companies hand out raises or look for people to promote, they look for those with initiative who will go the extra mile. They don't look for those who only do what they must to keep their jobs. Unfortunately, this seems to be more wide spread than I would have expected. There are drivers who will only do the minimum to keep their jobs. They never clean their trucks or do anything that will put them out. They won't even change out a trailer light. In some cases, all they have to do is unplug one and put in the new one. Instead, they would rather wait 4 hours at a TA to have the mechanic put one in and charge their company $80+ for a 5 minute job. The driver not only cost his company money, but he also lost 4 hours of driving time. If he had gone slightly out of his way and changed the light he would have been on the road and made money instead of sitting on his hands.

Companies want people who will take initiative. They want those who are honest and who will take care of their equipment. There seems to be more than enough of those who want to whine about this industry, yet they don't want to do anything to make things better. Unions are great for those who don't want to work. It always takes me longer to get unloaded at a union facility. There always seems to be 5 people standing around to watch one guy do the work.

This country used to have a work ethic that the world envied. In recent years, we seem to have more whiners than hard workers. When you can make $40,000+ in a job, you are making a decent wage. In fact, you are making more than most jobs in this country. You can make that much money or more by doing a good job. You don't even need a college education. You can go to a CDL school for a few weeks and within a year or two be making $35,000-40,000. There aren't many jobs where you can start with no experience or education and earn that much money in such a short period of time.

The problem we have is not enough people want to work. They would rather complain than do their job. They want the big bucks, but are not willing to do what is necessary to make the money. If you think you are under paid then find another job. Save your money and buy your own truck. Get your authority. There are options available to you. Most people are paid what they are worth. In this industry, most people are paid by the mile. If you want to make more money, then you can either drive more miles or find a job that will pay you more per mile. The mileage rate usually increases with experience. Starting out you won't make top mileage rates. If you work in a factory, you won't start out at top pay, either. People need to learn their jobs. That takes time. If you are new to this industry, you will not make as much as you will 2 or 5 years down the road. You can't have everything your way. You work for the company. They don't work for you. If you want everything your way then go buy your own truck, get your authority and see what you are worth. By the way, you still won't have everything your way. Life is about compromise. We all give up something to achieve our goals. I like performance pay. It is the best form of compensation. You find out very quickly who is working and who is not. When you pay people by the hour they tend to only do what they must to get by. When people are paid on their personal performance they tend to do more. There are still those who will wallow in their mediocrity. It is often easier to complain than do something.

When you can make $40,000+ in a job, you are making a decent wage. In fact, you are making more than most jobs in this country. You can make that much money or more by doing a good job. You don't even need a college education. You can go to a CDL school for a few weeks and within a year or two be making $35,000-40,000. There aren't many jobs where you can start with no experience or education and earn that much money in such a short period of time.

But not many other professions where you live out of a 8X10 fiberglass box for weeks (and weekends) on end and put in 70-100 hours per week on the job.

The problem we have is not enough people want to work.

Plenty of people who want to work, but not at the wages the trucking industry pays.

If you think you are under paid then find another job. Save your money and buy your own truck. Get your authority. There are options available to you.

Well, that in part explains the turnover: drivers jumping from one outfit to the next hoping things will get better. But usually, it's the same *****, different colored truck. As far as becoming an independent, that's stellar advice with all these O/O's going belly-up and parking their rigs due to sky-high diesel prices. And I think we both can agree that lease-purchase is for suckers.

I like performance pay. It is the best form of compensation. You find out very quickly who is working and who is not. When you pay people by the hour they tend to only do what they must to get by. When people are paid on their personal performance they tend to do more.

Performance pay is OK until the wheels stop rolling because there's no freight or something on the truck/trailer breaks down or you're sitting at a dock, in traffic, Blue Beacon, fuel island, PM, doing inspections, scaling loads, dropping/hooking trailers, etc, etc, etc. Than you ain't making jack.

If I run linehaul and get stuck in traffic or a storm, etc I call up dispatch and they put me on the clock. I simply note in my logs when and how long I was delayed and I get clock-time on my next paycheck. If I gotta go into a food warehouse and break down skids, I'm on the clock. Ditto for paperwork, waitng for a dock to open, waiting to check-in/out, fueling, dropping/hooking trailers, inspections, etc. Last year, a brake-can went out on my tractor and I had to call in roadrepair. Got paid 2 hours for my time just as if I was delivering freight. A week ago, I clocked in and they made me go down to the clinic for a randon whiz-quiz...got paid to take a pi$$.

All time spent on the job should be compensated. All time working past the 8th/40th hour should be overtime. Anything else is uncivilized...

[Allen Smith]

The turnover rate is purposely caused by the companies in order to keep drivers at the low end of the pay scale.....thus higher profits for the company. Plain and simple.

I was in Carney's Point at the Flying J yesterday.

And another thing...most people don't want to spend their summertime Saturdays at the Carney Point hook...one of the ****tiest truckstops in fricking New Jersey...which if it ain't the ******* of the world, then it's a good farting distance close enough.

That's the problem right there. You're a lifestyle trucker and you just can't comprehend why someone would not want to hobo around for what the job pays.

How much money is worth spending nights, weekends, and holidays at the Carney Point hook away from family and friends? A helluva lot more than $40k if you ask me...

[MartenDrvrCA]

I was in Carney's Point at the Flying J yesterday.

And another thing...most people don't want to spend their summertime Saturdays at the Carney Point hook...one of the ****tiest truckstops in fricking New Jersey...which if it ain't the ******* of the world, then it's a good farting distance close enough.

That's the problem right there. You're a lifestyle trucker and you just can't comprehend why someone would not want to hobo around for what the job pays.

How much money is worth spending nights, weekends, and holidays at the Carney Point hook away from family and friends? A helluva lot more than $40k if you ask me...

You speak the truth. Dead on.

[belpre122]

Performance pay is OK until the wheels stop rolling because there's no freight or something on the truck/trailer breaks down or you're sitting at a dock, in traffic, Blue Beacon, fuel island, PM, doing inspections, scaling loads, dropping/hooking trailers, etc, etc, etc. Than you ain't making jack.

Exactly why these outfits pay CPM! Biggest scam going. The CPM scam simply diverts losses from inefficient operations and bad business practices to the driver.

I'll never turn another wheel for CPM. No freebies, no way!!!!!

[DDCavi]

All time spent on the job should be compensated. All time working past the 8th/40th hour should be overtime. Anything else is uncivilized...

Werd.

[TomB985]

[quote="belpre122"]

Exactly why these outfits pay CPM! Biggest scam going. The CPM scam simply diverts losses from inefficient operations and bad business practices to the driver.

I'll never turn another wheel for CPM. No freebies, no way!!!!!

Ya know, this kind of thinking just kills me...

How do you think the carrier gets paid? What do their rates depend on? Paid by the MILE. OTR rates are very competitive, and their rates are based on a calculated cost PER MILE to run the truck, plus a small amount of profit. How much profit? Not much. My company makes an average of $25 per load, after all the bills are paid. This includes paying the driver, fuel, wear and tear, insurance, depreciation, break downs, maintenence, etc.


So, with that low of a margin, how can the average carrier AFFORD to pay drivers by the hour, when production isn't optimal? If that were the case, with OTR rates being what they are, every time a traffic jam happened, the companies would lose a fortune...and eventually go out of business! Now, all the b!tching drivers complianing about thier paycheck are on unemployment.

Much better, right?

In the first quarter of this year, more than 1,000 carriers (more than 5 trucks) shut their doors for good. Poor fiscal management destroys companies, familes, and lives. You CAN'T ask for more than can be given.

On edit:

Seems that the vast majority of people, both in this industry and out, are concerned with only one thing. Money.

They are obsessed by it, being ruled by the absolute necessity to get the most money they can for the least amount of time put in to earn that money. Money this...money that...

I tell ya what...if you don't ENJOY what you are doing...it just isn't worth it. ESPECIALLY driving a truck. Don't be ruled by the dollar...much better to worry about finding a job you can be HAPPY doing...

[Evinrude]

[quote="TomB985"][quote="belpre122"]

Exactly why these outfits pay CPM! Biggest scam going. The CPM scam simply diverts losses from inefficient operations and bad business practices to the driver.

I'll never turn another wheel for CPM. No freebies, no way!!!!!

Ya know, this kind of thinking just kills me...

My company makes an average of $25 per load, after all the bills are paid.

They will be out of business soon.

If that were the case, with OTR rates being what they are, every time a traffic jam happened, the companies would lose a fortune.

So the drivers should work for free to protect the companies fortune?

Seems that the vast majority of people, both in this industry and out, are concerned with only one thing. Money.

Its called business

They are obsessed by it, being ruled by the absolute necessity to get the most money they can for the least amount of time put in to earn that money.

Thats called working efficient

[belpre122]

In the first quarter of this year, more than 1,000 carriers (more than 5 trucks) shut their doors for good.

Survival of the fittest is healthy to the industry. Good riddance to those coolie carriers.

I respect your opinions Tom. I wish, however, that you would take a moment to review your post and see that it mostly affirms my position.

Irregular-route coolie OTR trucking is a thing of the past. Especially the long haul aspect. INEFFICIENCY INEFFICIENCY.

[GMAN]

When a driver is paid by the hour he isn't necessarily paid what he is worth. Some could be underpaid for their effort while others are over paid. I think everyone should be paid on performance, regardless of what they do for a living. When you are paid to produce there is an incentive for you to find better ways to do your job. There is also an incentive to get the work done in a timely manner. One of my biggest complaints with unions is the lack of incentive for the worker. In fact, there seems to be an incentive to be unproductive. I have heard a lot of workers over the years complain about the company making all the money and not giving a fair share to the workers. That is why I like percentage pay. The worker can share in the profits based upon their efforts. I think we would be much better off, as a nation, if we got rid of the hourly pay. It doesn't necessarily compensate people for their efforts. When a company pays on percentage or piece work they can better forecast costs. When a worker is paid percentage or piece work then he has an incentive to work harder. If he wants to earn more money then all he has to do is produce more. The guy who wants to sit on his hands won't make as much because he is not as motivated to work. Of course, he will complain. The guy who produces will be too busy to complain. He is the guy who will likely wind up running the company one day. That is the way with mileage pay. The more miles a driver turns the bigger his paycheck. What could be more fair?

[Evinrude]

. What could be more fair?

I like the deal the teachers have. Paid all holidays, storm days, sick days, summer vacation 10 weeks, meeting paid ,paid benefits, retirement. Weekends off, no nights, 8 hrs work.

They should be on production pay also. Any students don't pass the teacher shouldn't get paid....just a little incentive to motivate those teachers,,right Gman