Idle +Speed Reductions = Driver Gets It in the SHORTS!

[ratface]

If companies have not invested in APU's that is there problem.. They had 2 yrs of knowing that fuel prices would go up. anyone who can read would know this was in the future. But yet these comapnies will open new terminals, pay out monies to share holeders, buy new trucks, bonus for terminal managers or CEO's.

Also they all know who are the non performers for loading or unloading. They all knew if they send you into and area and there is not freight coming out its dead time or sit time, meaning charge customer for this.. Put some thought into planning.. Rather then hounding driver on idle %.. They just take the easy way out.. meaning lack of thought!

Do they go home and conserve energy? Not! Do they drive 5mph slower leaving work? Not!

Do imates have AC, Heat and running water.. Oh free eats and medical??
Yes, they do...

There will be a time when the driver gets the ball back... And that time will be soon!!! :twisted: :wink:

[Twilight Flyer]

If companies have not invested in APU's that is there problem.. They had 2 yrs of knowing that fuel prices would go up. anyone who can read would know this was in the future.

$10 million plus dollars to upgrade a 1000 truck fleet with APU's is not a drop in the bucket. In addition, there are enough issues with enough states regarding APUs that it's far from a sure thing. If a bunch of states outlaw APU's, what happens then? The smart companies have taken a wait and see aproach and the jury is still out.

But yet these comapnies will open new terminals, pay out monies to share holeders, buy new trucks, bonus for terminal managers or CEO's.

That's all part of doing a successful business. Opening new terminals means more driving jobs for more drivers. I hardly see an issue with that, APU or not. New trucks means better wheels for the driver...again, what's the problem? Bonuses for terminal managers and CEO's? Well, if you're running a successful business, allowing for new terminals and new trucks, then I suppose you earned it, eh?

Do they go home and conserve energy? Not! Do they drive 5mph slower leaving work? Not!

Most smart people are driving slower and are conserving energy at home. To say they aren't is the height of ignorance.

Do imates have AC, Heat and running water.. Oh free eats and medical?? Yes, they do...

You can always commit a felony. I'm sure a lot of inmates would trade their free eats and medical to you for the freedom you have.

There will be a time when the driver gets the ball back... And that time will be soon!!!

That's an eye-roller, for sure. What would you call that...a threat?

Dude, driving a truck is a job, just like any other job. You hire on to a company to do the job they hire you to do. If you don't like it, don't work there. If you don't like driving, then get off the road and do something else.

Trucking is a job, not a lifestyle. Deal with it.

[Uturn2001]

They had 2 yrs of knowing that fuel prices would go up.

More like 5-7 years. Fuel has been steadily rising for quite some time, just not at the current rate.

$10 million plus dollars to upgrade a 1000 truck fleet with APU's is not a drop in the bucket

True, if a company were to try to purchase and install on existing trucks, however APU's have been offered by all truck manufacturers for quite some time now and with the trade in cycle of around 3 years or so most companies could have had the conversion done or nearly done by now without a massive outlay of cash.

In addition, there are enough issues with enough states regarding APUs that it's far from a sure thing.

Other than California what states are having issues with APU's?

The smart companies have taken a wait and see aproach and the jury is still out.

And how long are they going to wait? IMHO the companies that are dragging their fleet on APU's or installing other means of heating and cooling the truck sleepers are not smart, but very dumb.

APU's or other means of keeping a comfortable temp level in the sleeper of a truck for up to 36 hours have numerous benefits.

A well rested driver is a safer driver.
Less stress for the driver
Less friction between the driver and the company
Less wear on the truck's main engine. Longer engine life.
Less maintenance on the truck's main engine.
Lower fuel bills.
Higher trade in values.
Less pollution.
etc.

In short it is an investment that holds gains in economic, human and environmental areas.

At $2.XX per gallon it has been estimated that an APU would pay for itself in around 6 months to a year. At $5 per gallon how quickly will it pay for itself?

[Twilight Flyer]

How many companies do you know that have gone to APU's? I'm talking about the bigger ones. You can probably count the number of those on one hand. As far as I know, Martin just put them on some of their fleet, to run tests. Crete is putting them on a small percentage of their fleet, also test them out. A number of other companies are looking into them, but have not yet stepped into the water. Why?

Fact is, if APU's were the savior of the industry, they'd be on every single truck rolling right now, period, from the smallest fleet to the largest. They're not on those trucks for a very good reason...the jury is still out and it's still a very big gamble. And right now, as volitale as the industry is, no one is gambling.

[belpre122]

How many companies do you know that have gone to APU's? I'm talking about the bigger ones. You can probably count the number of those on one hand. As far as I know, Martin just put them on some of their fleet, to run tests. Crete is putting them on a small percentage of their fleet, also test them out. A number of other companies are looking into them, but have not yet stepped into the water. Why?

Fact is, if APU's were the savior of the industry, they'd be on every single truck rolling right now, period, from the smallest fleet to the largest. They're not on those trucks for a very good reason...the jury is still out and it's still a very big gamble. And right now, as volitale as the industry is, no one is gambling.

Correct TF. After giving the matter further thought, I had to agree with Beetle's explanation regarding Crete's hesitation to make the "full-blown" APU investment. APUs are simply not the answer. Just a very expensive band-aid to this industry emergency.

The style of irregular-route coolie OTR trucking is the problem and is quickly coming to an end. The inherent inefficiencies in this flawed idea are causing the implosion of the irregular-route coolie OTR industry as we watch.

[Twilight Flyer]

Correct TF. After giving the matter further thought, I had to agree with Beetle's explanation regarding Crete's hesitation to make the "full-blown" APU investment. APUs are simply not the answer. Just a very expensive band-aid to this industry emergency.

That's it, right there. It's just a band-aid and may turn out to be a completely ineffective one. So on this, I completely agree with you.

However..... :wink:

The style of irregular-route coolie OTR trucking is the problem and is quickly coming to an end. The inherent inefficiencies in this flawed idea are causing the implosion of the irregular-route coolie OTR industry as we watch.

This, I'll have to respectfully disagree on. It's the long haul aspect of the industry that is coming to an end because it's simply not profitable. The irregular route, short haul freight is booming right now for one simple reason - J.I.T. trucking. Until you see a massive re-emergance of warehouses and companies backing down from the no-inventory J.I.T. mindset, short haul freight will remain booming. It is simply the only solution to J.I.T.

Interestingly enough, Belpre, as much as you resent the "coolie carriers", the LTL companies rely on and will survive because of the short to medium haul carriers. What little warehousing is done right now, it's those carriers you resent that are bringing it to them. That marriage isn't likely to dissolve any time soon, either.

[Drew10]

Good post(s) TF...Couldnt agree with you more. (sounds like the OP needed to vent)

Just fyi...Werner had begun the installation process of APUs. Just got mine last week. Im figuring at around $5 a gallon, it wouldnt take long to pay them off, and I got to assume they are getting them at a very good rate.
Also would assume they are going to stay on the truck when the truck goes to fleet sales, thats just speculation though.

[Malaki86]

What about companies that don't buy new trucks?

My company has 63 company trucks on the road. The newest truck in our fleet is a 2005 and was purchased in January.

So, multiply $8,000 x 63 and see how much you come up with.

[unclehotte]

I think, since more and more shippers DONT offer the long haul anymore it might go all the way like p+d plus linehaul. Like yellow, pitt ohio old dominion and more. After I switch my trailers with another driver he drives home, I drive home. We get rid of the loads and the trucks are parked.No more idle trucks for a driver who needs his 10h break. One of the last discussions I had at Shaffer (after I complained about all those shorts runs) I was told shippers try to keep the length of haul now under 500 miles if possible. If that is true there wont be much need for OTR trucking anymore........?

[belpre122]

I think, since more and more shippers DONT offer the long haul anymore it might go all the way like p+d plus linehaul. Like yellow, pitt ohio old dominion and more. After I switch my trailers with another driver he drives home, I drive home. We get rid of the loads and the trucks are parked.No more idle trucks for a driver who needs his 10h break. One of the last discussions I had at Shaffer (after I complained about all those shorts runs) I was told shippers try to keep the length of haul now under 500 miles if possible. If that is true there wont be much need for OTR trucking anymore........?

Never was a need for OTR trucking to begin with. Trucking deregulation spawned what will be looked back upon as "the darkest days of trucking."

Good riddance coolie carriers.

[belpre122]

Interestingly enough, Belpre, as much as you resent the "coolie carriers", the LTL companies rely on and will survive because of the short to medium haul carriers. What little warehousing is done right now, it's those carriers you resent that are bringing it to them. That marriage isn't likely to dissolve any time soon, either.

Point well made TF.

[Chasing Daylight]

Do they go home and conserve energy? Not! Do they drive 5mph slower leaving work? Not!

Most smart people are driving slower and are conserving energy at home. To say they aren't is the height of ignorance.

In general you make some valid points, but on this I must respectufully disagree. In january, when it's sun freezing do you leave your heat off and freeze? Would you open your window and leave the AC off if it were 110 degrees? If you can't answer yes to both questions, then you are not living in the conditions you expect drivers to, and your statement is therefore flawed and irrelevant... a cop out at best.

[Pack_Rat]

It's the long haul aspect of the industry that is coming to an end because it's simply not profitable.

I disagree with this statement also. Our business is based on long haul for the most part. I run Indiana to either Cali or the northwest each and every week. Plus i agree with the above poster so far all the people who happen to work for the mega carriers here seem to be copping out on the idle time issue.

[GMAN]

It isn't smart business to jump in and start spending money on something such as APU's right now. California has even outlawed some of them after forcing some to purchase them due to their anti-idling laws. The actual payback is still uncertain with the APU's. All of this back and forth with the states makes carriers reluctant to spend $7M+ without some proof that it will save them money and be acceptable to all states in which they run. It is expensive enough for a single operator, but multiply that figure by a thousand trucks or more and you are talking about some serious money. There are some other alternatives which might be better suited and cost less, but the technology is still unproven in the U.S. market. I think there is something better on the horizon than the APU.

[Chasing Daylight]

You might be right on new technology Gman, but what difference does it ultimately make? Realistically, there is probably a better technology to cover most things in our lives, but none of it does us any good now. Might well be something cleaner than diesel fuel to power our trucks, should we park them, drain the tanks and wait for it? The benefit of APU's are that they are readily available now and acceptible for use in a vast majority of the country.

Mind you, I normally direct these thoughts at the law makers who pass short sighted anti idle laws, but the carriers are starting to catch up in the "make the low life, subhuman truck driver suffer" game. The truth, the black and white bottom line of it is this. If I don't follow the anti idle laws, and the company policies, I either get ticketed or fired. If I have a dog with me, and do follow those laws and rules, I can be arrested for animal cruelty. The various governments, the carriers and it would seem the public at large expect truck dirvers to live in conditions that it is illegal to keep a dog in. No amount of rationalization about better technologies or excessive expenses or cleaner environments, or everyone needing to conserve energy will change that fact. Drivers are human, and I have this weird notion that humans still matter, they deserve to be treated at least as well as dogs. Something has to give on this issue, and it has to give now. And since we are talking about now, APU's happen to be what is available. So they cost ~8 grand. So what? The health and well being of a human being isn't worth that much?

[druid2874]

You are right Gman I work for swift if they decide to go with APU's
for all there trucks it would be 120,000,000 they might be able to get a discount maybe knock off 20,000,000 . But for something that’s not certain would any of you spend 120,000,000 to find out oh no you cant use them ? In some states or they have to get newer ones because the old ones don’t conform to this law or that law ?

[allan5oh]

I'm going to have to disagree about the APU's. Or at least some sort of idle reduction device. They have a huge payback, an unreal ROI(return on investment).

Wal-Mart is another large company outfitting all of their trucks with an APU. Most companies up here have at least an espar air heater, I have the engine heater as well. AC isn't as important up here. You can sleep just fine without one.

[bigtimba]

The first issue of "new" HOS rules was thrown out thanks to a lawsuit brought by a disparate group of organizations loosely aligned with trucking and truck safety. The issue was the health and well being of the Driver and that the new rules failed to consider it.

Anti idling laws will be thrown out just as soon as someone, or some group files a lawsuit for the same reason. I'm guessing some guidelines for employers will come out of this as well.

It still amazes me that, on the one hand, we can run that reefer to keep the dead meat dead while on the other, we can't idle the truck to keep the live meat alive.

This message brought to you from an ICON equibbed cab in Green River, UT. Outside temp 117, inside temp 79 and falling.

[GMAN]

You might be right on new technology Gman, but what difference does it ultimately make? Realistically, there is probably a better technology to cover most things in our lives, but none of it does us any good now. Might well be something cleaner than diesel fuel to power our trucks, should we park them, drain the tanks and wait for it? The benefit of APU's are that they are readily available now and acceptible for use in a vast majority of the country.

Mind you, I normally direct these thoughts at the law makers who pass short sighted anti idle laws, but the carriers are starting to catch up in the "make the low life, subhuman truck driver suffer" game. The truth, the black and white bottom line of it is this. If I don't follow the anti idle laws, and the company policies, I either get ticketed or fired. If I have a dog with me, and do follow those laws and rules, I can be arrested for animal cruelty. The various governments, the carriers and it would seem the public at large expect truck drivers to live in conditions that it is illegal to keep a dog in. No amount of rationalization about better technologies or excessive expenses or cleaner environments, or everyone needing to conserve energy will change that fact. Drivers are human, and I have this weird notion that humans still matter, they deserve to be treated at least as well as dogs. Something has to give on this issue, and it has to give now. And since we are talking about now, APU's happen to be what is available. So they cost ~8 grand. So what? The health and well being of a human being isn't worth that much?

I believe California and some of the other states that have the pet exemption for idling are in the process of changing their laws to void any exemptions. It isn't that drivers aren't worth the $8,000, but it is a big investment that carriers must make. The most sensible thing would be to allow idling and for those who wish to buy an APU, let them. If the cost savings is there companies will spend the money. With fuel at record highs, I can see that there could be a significant savings once you get past the intitial cost of the APU. I think that people need to start suing these anti idling states for safety. By not allowing drivers to idle their trucks they cannot get adequate rest. I don't think that idling a truckwill contribute significantly to the pollution in any given area. There are more cars than trucks yet they want to target trucks. Anti idling laws contribute a lot of revenue to the states who have them.

[Chasing Daylight]

I believe California and some of the other states that have the pet exemption for idling are in the process of changing their laws to void any exemptions. It isn't that drivers aren't worth the $8,000, but it is a big investment that carriers must make. The most sensible thing would be to allow idling and for those who wish to buy an APU, let them. If the cost savings is there companies will spend the money. With fuel at record highs, I can see that there could be a significant savings once you get past the intitial cost of the APU. I think that people need to start suing these anti idling states for safety. By not allowing drivers to idle their trucks they cannot get adequate rest. I don't think that idling a truckwill contribute significantly to the pollution in any given area. There are more cars than trucks yet they want to target trucks. Anti idling laws contribute a lot of revenue to the states who have them.

On this we agree, but I believe I am slightly less optimistic on the issue than most. We are talking "environmental" laws here. That's the buzzword of the decade, a subject that everyone wants to "so something" about despite their utter ignorance on the subject. The anti-idle laws are never goin to leave the books, because nobody in the judiciary or legislature wants to be the guy who doesn't support the environment. This goes well beyond the legal and into the political, for those elcted to office anyway. For the public doing that electing, it is worse as it has sunk to the level of wholly irrational. So many of the vong public have been wrapped up in the environmental issie as though it were life or death (it's not) because they fell for the Al Gore horror stories, and worse produced by the radical environmentaliats. All of this shock data is being produced by envirowhackos that I guarantee rank a human truck driver beneath a tree, let alone a dog. Trouble is, these people have traction in the mass media, thus scaring the aforementioned public into irrational beliefs, and the trouble with those in the irrational general public is... they vote. So, we are pretty much stuck with the anti-idle laws with worse to come in the future. Our only hope is for someone to throw a case out there and ride it all the way to the USSC.