Politics, Speculation and Prices at the Pump

[WAVP375]

I listened to Byron Dorgan on FOx News Sunday say that we have to go after the speculators in order to deal with the rising price of oil when he was asked about Congress allowing more exploration for oil.

I read an article quoting George Soros saying that the speculation in oil is a bubble and it immediately occurred to me that the way to burst that bubble is to produce more crude oil.

Yet, conservation, taxation and “alternative energy sources” are the mantra of the Democrats in Congress. This policy of theirs is perfectly tailored, I believe, to benefit the very speculators being cited by Dorgan as the root cause of our misery.

Question – how valid is the proposition that Obama, Democrat politicians and affluent Democrat supporters of Obama have investments in the oil futures hedge funds which are probably the real “speculator” culprits here?

That is, do Democrats seek to personally benefit financially through personal investments from keeping oil off the market by their insisting on conservation, taxation and alternative energy sources instead of allowing more domestic oil production?

[Windwalker]

I listened to Byron Dorgan on FOx News Sunday say that we have to go after the speculators in order to deal with the rising price of oil when he was asked about Congress allowing more exploration for oil.

I read an article quoting George Soros saying that the speculation in oil is a bubble and it immediately occurred to me that the way to burst that bubble is to produce more crude oil.

Yet, conservation, taxation and “alternative energy sources” are the mantra of the Democrats in Congress. This policy of theirs is perfectly tailored, I believe, to benefit the very speculators being cited by Dorgan as the root cause of our misery.

Question – how valid is the proposition that Obama, Democrat politicians and affluent Democrat supporters of Obama have investments in the oil futures hedge funds which are probably the real “speculator” culprits here?

That is, do Democrats seek to personally benefit financially through personal investments from keeping oil off the market by their insisting on conservation, taxation and alternative energy sources instead of allowing more domestic oil production?

In the long run, that will only ADD to the problem. The way to really burst their bubble is to REPLACE oil and make it worthless. The technology to produce Hydrogen cheaply has been with us for decades. It's as old as AC POWER itself. (Come on, TF. Get in on this. You DO NOT have to burn hydrocarbons to produce hydrogen) Replace oil and it no longer has any value.

[Skywalker]

Considering that the current administrations fiscal policies suck, which has led to the devaluation of the US Dollar....much of the reason that oil is expensive here is because the Dollar isn't worth much anymore. An article in the Atlanta paper made a point of this....and were the Dollar on par with the Euro...a barrel of oil would be about $77.00....NOT $130.00.

Heres a comparison of the US Dollar to the Canadian Dollar:

Canadian Dollars to 1 USD (invert,data)
120 days latest (Jun 13)
1.0282 lowest (Feb 28)
0.9717 highest (Jan 18)
1.0294

I used to be that the exchange rate for the US $ in Canada was in our (US) favor....about $1.20 Canadian to one US $....that is now reversed....

Now the Euro:

American Dollars to 1 EUR (invert,data)
120 days latest (Jun 13)
1.5368 lowest (Feb 7)
1.4495 highest (Apr 22)
1.601

When the Euro first came out.....it was roughly trading at about the same as the US $....right now it takes over $1.50 US to buy one Euro.....

These guys have a take on it....not that I agree with them politically:

http://www.fdrs.org/american_currency_value.html

And another take on it:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/...rmarkets03.php

Its a frightening situation....because its not just about "fuel".....

[Colts Fan]

You all make good points. But Democrats blaming the situation on speculators is down right stupid. Commodities speculators play a very important role in diverting risk in the market. It is a simple fact that due to an increased demand in China, India and other developing countries, and a finite supply of crude, the future trends look to rising prices due to those simple supply v. demand factors. That coupled with a pathetically weak dollar add up to the situation we see ourselves in today.

The answer is simple. We need to drill now while it is profitable to do so, thus increasing supply aand lowering prices, while at the same time continue to develop the technologies that will get us off of oil.

Sign the petition at www.americansolutions.com to let Congress know that we want to drill in our borders and off the shore to alleviate the pain we are feeling at the pump.

[golfhobo]

I am ALL for drilling and refining more U.S. oil!! But, for the most part, any realized relief will be years down the line.

I am ALL for shoring up the U.S. Dollar, but that will take CHANGE in our Administration and therefore our economy.

Speculators are not the WHOLE problem, but they are a big part of it. Yes, the increased demand from China and others is somewhat FUELING the "speculation" that supply will tighten, thus increasing the profitability of "futures."

But, markets (and speculators) are a nervous bunch. ANYTHING that we can do to lessen the PERCEPTION of future shortages will help! This means even the RUMOR of drilling more (not EFFECTIVE until Congress passes some bill making it a real possibility), or conservation (increased MPG standards in Detroit,) and REAL effort toward alternative fuel sources (like COAL into oil that the military is investing in) will REDUCE the futures speculation.

Also, ending the constant WARS in the Middle East will help.... tremendously! And.... if you really want to put a "stop" on short term speculation..... release some of the "reserves" (or quit stockpiling.)

The situation is dire ENOUGH without the greedy Wall Street speculators/traders making it worse! Take away their "projections" and perhaps they'll move on!

Democratic policies do NOT result in keeping GASOLINE OFF the market! Conservation and alternative sources would INCREASE the supply! Taxation is a different animal, but the point is to tax windfall profits while REDUCING "tax incentives" to companies who don't NEED them.

The government has a VALID reason for taxing fuel. That is.... to build more roads and improve our transportation infrastructure. But, it is "double jeapordy" and to some extent "taxation without representation" to then ALSO give away our tax money to oil companies who REFUSE to increase their refining capacity!

I'm not saying that Democrats are not part of the problem. But, only a FOOL cannot see that the current REPUBLICAN administration is in BED with the oil companies.... and perhaps even OPEC.... to increase profits for themselves at OUR expense! The current "lip service" Bush has given to both conservation AND alternatives research is JUST THAT!

[Now, I have heard that the Dems are being "blamed" for stonewalling more drilling off the coast (and in Anwar) and I AGREE that this needs to STOP! But, there really IS no "shortage" of OIL on the market! And my "conservative" side says..... let's lift ALL restrictions on drilling American oil IMMEDIATELY! I doubt that much more WILL be drilled, but the mere "opportunity" to do so will scare OPEC into a more rational "profit structure." ]

If Bush doesn't help the Saudis make MORE money off their oil, how can he expect to sell them MORE "arms?!" And if we don't sell them more arms, how can he keep the M/I/C in business?? Our military has become so "efficient" that we don't "expend" enough planes, tanks, bombs and bullets to do so by ourselves! NOT that he isn't TRYING..... by starting wars everywhere he CAN..... but, it's not enough! We must ALSO help our friends (and enemies) be able to afford to BUY more of our products of death and destruction!

Someone once made the "litmus test" a simple question.... Are you better off today than X number of years ago? Well?? What was the price of oil, and therefore gasoline / diesel BEFORE Bush took office?

Speculators..... wretched as they are..... are ONLY doing what comes naturally! The "ROOT" of the problem is the policies that have created the speculation! And CHINA, (although a real factor) is NOT the only problem!

Now.... if ANYONE can find a way to blame THAT on the Democrats.... well...... maybe I'll vote for McCain! But, don't "speculate" on it!

And (although I am NOT against drilling there,) if I hear the word ANWAR in your response..... I'm gonna PUKE all over your keyboard!!

[zipy46]

...this thread has echoes of an emerging conspiracy :shock:

[zipy46]

Holy **** !!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67011147&hl=en

[Orangetxguy]

You all make good points. But Democrats blaming the situation on speculators is down right stupid. Commodities speculators play a very important role in diverting risk in the market. It is a simple fact that due to an increased demand in China, India and other developing countries, and a finite supply of crude, the future trends look to rising prices due to those simple supply v. demand factors. That coupled with a pathetically weak dollar add up to the situation we see ourselves in today.

The answer is simple. We need to drill now while it is profitable to do so, thus increasing supply aand lowering prices, while at the same time continue to develop the technologies that will get us off of oil.

Sign the petition at www.americansolutions.com to let Congress know that we want to drill in our borders and off the shore to alleviate the pain we are feeling at the pump.

Ummmmmmmmmmm....Ok.


Seriuosly ...How do you propose the drilling begin? Where do you propose the drilling begin?

Right now the biggest road block to new drilling, on land, is not lack of permits. It is people and equipment. The drilling companies themselves(don't mistake "Oil" companies for "Drilling" companies) , are finding that the equipment that has been "stacked" since the mid-80's...didn't hold up so well to the elements..so..they have to build new equipment...which requires massive amonts of steel...which is expensive. It also requires those companies..that no longer manufacture the needed auxilary equipment...be replaced or re-tooled..to build that equipment. Add into the, the simple fact that even thugh the "OIL" companies need the drilling compnaies to drill the wells...those same "Oil" companies are not going to sell the drilling companies fuel and lube products on the cheap.
As far as people...it is hard for drilling and service companies to find people whom are trainable, whom can pass a drug test, and whom are willing to work long hours. In the 70's and 80's..that was not a problem. There were plenty of people with good work ethics willing to go to work in the oilfields...not so today...all the people now want everything given to them.

Now...for "Offshore" drilling. The biggest roadblock here is again...lack of serviceable equipment. To drill in deep water..it takes a much larger platform, than what is used in shallow water. The majority of replacement platforms will ot be deliveried to the "Gulf Coast" system until later next year. The majority of those platforms currently under construction are already under contract to drill in "International" locations.

Here in this area(SE Texas)...all the shallow water platforms that were being used to repair the wells in shallow water, that were damaged by hurricanes in 2005, are one by one being stacked out, to eventually be turned into replacement production platforms...or scrapped..because they are useless in deep water, and there is no need for them over-seas.

Here is a decent article with plenty of useful information, about what it costs, both to establish a drilling program offshore..plus the cost's of short-sightedness, during storm evacuations; http://www.redorbit.com/news/science...orm/index.html

[GMAN]

There isn't any real competition to oil. If there was a good inexpensive alternative prices would plummet overnight. If you want to look at failed energy policies you need to go back to Jimmy Carter. Under his administration prices began climbing at an astronomical rate. Prior to his administration you could buy gas for less than $.40/gallon almost anywhere in the U.S. In fact, at many self service stations you could buy regular at about $0.19-0.27/gallon. Diesel was less. Under Carter, interest rates were over 22% and inflation was out of control. His foreign policy gave the impression that the U.S. was weak. Remember the Iranian hostages. Our citizens were held hostage by an Iranian Islamic radicals who over threw their government and held our people almost a year. They were released when Reagan took office. He would have taken a different tact.

We do have alternatives to oil and have had experimental means to get much higher fuel economy without decreasing performance for many decades. The problem is that the will isn't there to proceed. This is a problem which will not be solved over night. However, prices would plummet if we either started drilling more oil in this country, started building more refineries or moved forward with a good alternative to oil.

[tinytim]

The only answer is to come up with a viable alternative. Oil is not a renewable resource and will eventually run out. Therefore supply and demand is exactly what is causing the rise and it is only going to get worse. Drilling in Alaska and other places would help but realistically by the time those oil fields could be productive we better already be on our way to an alternative. They should have opened those up years ago and at the same time began serious efforts to find a viable alternative. The current situation isn't a surprise to those who should know, they just failed to act early enough. Google 'peak oil' and read a little.

[Windwalker]

The only answer is to come up with a viable alternative. Oil is not a renewable resource and will eventually run out. Therefore supply and demand is exactly what is causing the rise and it is only going to get worse. Drilling in Alaska and other places would help but realistically by the time those oil fields could be productive we better already be on our way to an alternative. They should have opened those up years ago and at the same time began serious efforts to find a viable alternative. The current situation isn't a surprise to those who should know, they just failed to act early enough. Google 'peak oil' and read a little.

Read my post above. That's the cure in the long run.

[Rev.Vassago]

Does anyone remember the rise and fall of the dot com's back in the late 90's? Does anyone else see anything similar?

[jamesinge]

We are simply being held hostage by OPEC and no amount of speculating or lack thereof will grant us any reprieve from being bent over a barrel literally.

With our thechnology such as it is we should be forever beyond our need for oil plain and simple. People can make diesel engines run on vegetable oil. Grease, and even garbage. There are natural gas engines as well as hydrogen nitrogen etc etc.

Hell if we really wanted to we could be any number of common everyday renewable things instead of oil.

I look forward to the price getting even much higher because then and only then will we truly begin to attempt to lessen our dependence on foreign oil.

[Colts Fan]

Does anyone remember the rise and fall of the dot com's back in the late 90's? Does anyone else see anything similar?

Are you referring to a bubble that might burst?

[Rev.Vassago]

Does anyone remember the rise and fall of the dot com's back in the late 90's? Does anyone else see anything similar?

Are you referring to a bubble that might burst?

That and more. The dot com boom of the late 90's was based upon speculation, with prices soaring far beyond the value what they represented. When those who got in at the beginning saw that it had reached the pinnacle, they began pulling out. By the time the casual investor knew what was happening, it was already too late. Basically, it was a huge pyramid scheme.

There have already been reports of people in the oil industry investing in other areas, and now even the Saudis state that the current prices are far too high. It is simply a matter of time before this bubble bursts, just as the dot com bubble burst, and just as the housing bubble burst. When it does, fortunes will be lost, and everyone who has 401K money invested in oil will be whining that they lost their life savings.

[Fourcats]

The ones making the HUGE profits are the ones who do NOTHING but collect the taxes and hold "hearings" to chastise the oil companies...They are not about to let all that free $$$$ get away.

There are no lines or "shortages", we {you & me} can still pay more for fuel and everything else. That where our "leaders" are taking us.

Politics, Speculation and Prices at the Pump

Didn't Sammy Kershaw sing that?

[BigWheels]

I listened to Byron Dorgan on FOx News Sunday say that we have to go after the speculators in order to deal with the rising price of oil when he was asked about Congress allowing more exploration for oil.

Without speculators, the price of bread one week could be .99 and the next week 9.99. Speculators help prices more or less on an even keel over time.

I read an article quoting George Soros saying that the speculation in oil is a bubble and it immediately occurred to me that the way to burst that bubble is to produce more crude oil.

Flooding the market is certainly one way to burst this bubble. As others have said, starting an earnest intent to drill in this country as well as committing to alternative forms of energy would also help to "pop" the bubble.

Yet, conservation, taxation and “alternative energy sources” are the mantra of the Democrats in Congress. This policy of theirs is perfectly tailored, I believe, to benefit the very speculators being cited by Dorgan as the root cause of our misery.

Perhaps. It does seem that way.

Question – how valid is the proposition that Obama, Democrat politicians and affluent Democrat supporters of Obama have investments in the oil futures hedge funds which are probably the real “speculator” culprits here?

It's a valid proposition...wait until they file next year's tax returns.

That is, do Democrats seek to personally benefit financially through personal investments from keeping oil off the market by their insisting on conservation, taxation and alternative energy sources instead of allowing more domestic oil production?

Some Democrats undoubtedly personally benefit financially through personal investments in oil hedge funds (But then so do some Republicans, Independents, etc.). Ain't politics grand?! :shock: :sad:

[Rawlco]

Question – how valid is the proposition that Obama, Democrat politicians and affluent Democrat supporters of Obama have investments in the oil futures hedge funds which are probably the real “speculator” culprits here?

It's a valid proposition...wait until they file next year's tax returns.

That is, do Democrats seek to personally benefit financially through personal investments from keeping oil off the market by their insisting on conservation, taxation and alternative energy sources instead of allowing more domestic oil production?

Some Democrats undoubtedly personally benefit financially through personal investments in oil hedge funds (But then so do some Republicans, Independents, etc.). Ain't politics grand?! :shock: :sad:

Slightly off the topic, but do you realize that algore has invested heavily in the companies that build carbon dioxide capture equipment, makers of solar cells, and other "alternatives" that he touts should be required. Talk about using politics for personal gain.

When it does, fortunes will be lost, and everyone who has 401K money invested in oil will be whining that they lost their life savings.

Bet you five bucks that if oil crashes there will be bailouts, price supports, and all kinds of handouts to ease the pain. :wink: Spread the misery.

[golfhobo]

Slightly off the topic, but do you realize that algore has invested heavily in the companies that build carbon dioxide capture equipment, makers of solar cells, and other "alternatives" that he touts should be required. Talk about using politics for personal gain.

When it does, fortunes will be lost, and everyone who has 401K money invested in oil will be whining that they lost their life savings.

Bet you five bucks that if oil crashes there will be bailouts, price supports, and all kinds of handouts to ease the pain. :wink: Spread the misery.

So what if Al Gore has invested in "alternative energy" companies?? Al Gore makes NO energy policy in this country. He's not even IN the government anymore! In fact.... I believe he has stayed OUT of it for the simple reason that he doesn't want to portray a conflict of interest.... and his interest is in energy conservation.... or at least, alternatives.

He has dedicated his "post administration" years to this cause, even won a Nobel for it, and he has EVERY right to invest in companies that share his vision of the future.

Now, I realize that his mansion consumes massive amounts of energy, and it seems, even MORE now that it is "green." But, that's beside the point! It MAY go to prove him WRONG..... but, not "dirty!"

There are PLENTY of rich Conservatives who are making big money off of the current oil situation who've contributed large amounts of monies to the current administration and are thankful for its LACK of action to curtail Big Oil profits! The name CHENEY comes to mind!

If Oil crashes, there will be no spreading of the misery! Yes, there will be bailouts..... but, there already ARE in the form of subsidies and tax breaks! Shareholders will feel only a small amount of pain. The MISERY will be borne by the average American at the pump!

Get OFF Al Gore's back! I don't see ANY validation for your accusation that he is mixing politics with profits! I assume he has "risked" large amounts of monies in the future HE thinks is best. He HAS that right as a private citizen!

Do you not think that if he WANTED political influence to support his personal investments, he couldn't have regained his Senate seat from Tennessee?? The fact that he HASN'T, tells me volumes about his commitment and ethics!

As an Independant, I am a bit concerned about the control the Environmentalists have over Democratic Party politics, and even a bit troubled by some of the Socialist tendencies. But, overshadowing this concern is my total disgust with the "Gotcha" mentality of the Conservatives, who find it necessary to villify any and ALL "liberals" and Democrats for their beliefs and actions!

Democrats blame the Bush administration for the special treatment of the rich. But, the Conservatives blame EVERY Democrat (or at least Liberal) for what they perceive as a threat to their "privileged" way of life!

They come off as the playground "Bully!" Complete with lower I.Q's, bigger egos, louder mouths, and smaller genitals! :shock:

Now, I certainly expect to get "flamed" for this.... but, I've listened to A LOT of Conservative radio lately (since I started driving a truck and bought a Sirius radio,) and that is MY opinon! I watch Fox News as much as I do CNN while at home, and the differences are unmistakable!!