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  #51  
Old 09-17-2008, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GMAN
If you hang in there and learn your craft you will see the bigger paychecks. There will always be those who want to start out at the top even though they have little or no skills. This is a profession where proficiency comes with doing. You can't learn how to drive a truck out of a book. You can learn how to pass the written test out of a book. The only way to learn how to drive is to get behind the wheel and practice. The longer you practice the better you will become at your job.

This is truck driving you can add a vail of mystique an mystery to it ...but it's not a trade that takes years to master ...For most on here only pulling dry van I would say 6mo-1yr and you pretty much learned your craft... Not trying to discredit you I'm just saying the job is pretty well mastered in 1yr sufficiently so a company should'nt be able to justify a driver only earning 25-30k and working 24/7 for 4-7wks by claiming it's a rookie wage thus a fair one.
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  #52  
Old 09-17-2008, 01:50 PM
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Keeping the whole monetary issue out of it, I've heard it said many times that as soon as you think you're a master at your craft (driving), then it's time to get off the road because you're a danger to yourself and to the motoring public.

I agree that when you hit that magical year of experience, you should not be considered a rookie and your pay should increase drastically. But at 1 year, you are nowhere near a master at your craft, not only in driving but in anything. I've talked to 30 years drivers who say the same thing about their experience. When you think you know it all, you're in trouble.

Just sayin'
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  #53  
Old 09-17-2008, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
Keeping the whole monetary issue out of it, I've heard it said many times that as soon as you think you're a master at your craft (driving), then it's time to get off the road because you're a danger to yourself and to the motoring public.

I agree that when you hit that magical year of experience, you should not be considered a rookie and your pay should increase drastically. But at 1 year, you are nowhere near a master at your craft, not only in driving but in anything. I've talked to 30 years drivers who say the same thing about their experience. When you think you know it all, you're in trouble.

Just sayin'

You know, we hear this conversation out on the road everyday and I ask the driver saying it, you still learn about truck driving every day, What have you learned today. You know what the answer is, I don’t know but I learned something.... lol this is just my opinion but after 30 yrs I have been driving its just the same thing, but a different day!!! Now I ask you TF, what did you learn yesterday?????? I also believe you cant master your craft in 1 yr also!!!
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  #54  
Old 09-17-2008, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
Keeping the whole monetary issue out of it, I've heard it said many times that as soon as you think you're a master at your craft (driving), then it's time to get off the road because you're a danger to yourself and to the motoring public.

I agree that when you hit that magical year of experience, you should not be considered a rookie and your pay should increase drastically. But at 1 year, you are nowhere near a master at your craft, not only in driving but in anything. I've talked to 30 years drivers who say the same thing about their experience. When you think you know it all, you're in trouble.

Just sayin'

Well I wouldn't say any one person knows every subtle nuance about every aspect of driving I don't ...But let's be real if you're pulling a dry van it's not a 30yr science to master the task ... you either can or can't dirve well ...I've asked a few drivers to elaborate on their specifics of what major awe inspring things in trucking take more than a couple years to grasp sufficetnly well after making a statement like...I've been driving for 30yrs and i'm still a rookie, and I've yet to be enlightened with an aswer supprting the statement ... :roll:
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  #55  
Old 10-05-2008, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BIG JEEP on 44's View Post
This is truck driving you can add a vail of mystique an mystery to it ...but it's not a trade that takes years to master ...For most on here only pulling dry van I would say 6mo-1yr and you pretty much learned your craft... Not trying to discredit you I'm just saying the job is pretty well mastered in 1yr sufficiently so a company should'nt be able to justify a driver only earning 25-30k and working 24/7 for 4-7wks by claiming it's a rookie wage thus a fair one.

I don't think someone with a year of experience should still be considered a rookie, but I don't think they have mastered this trade, either. You can learn the basics in a year but I would not consider that as having mastered the profession. It doesn't take all that long to learn the basics, but becoming proficient takes a while. I doubt you will find many in this industry who will be earning less than $35,000 after a year. Most should earn between $30-35,000 their first year. Their level of compensation will increase with their experience, as it should. I have thought for some time that we need to have different levels of drivers based upon their skill level and experience. It would make it easier for carriers to evaluate drivers. Most carriers primarily base their pay on two factors. They pay based upon the years of experience in the industry and how long the driver has been with the carrier. It isn't a bad way to do it but I think that the better drivers should be evaluated a little differently. If a driver is more proficient, then he should be compensated accordingly. At this point, that isn't necessarily the case. Part of the problem is with the drivers themselves. They don't get their way about something and they are off to the next company. Rather than trying to work things out with their current employer they just get angry and leave. It is easy to complain about the low pay in this industry. I don't think that is true. Pay is low the first year, but that should be expected in any new endeavor. On the other hand, there aren't many new jobs where you can train for a few weeks and earn $30-35,000 your first year without a degree or formal training other than a few weeks of driving school. There aren't many jobs where you are in so much control of your income as a truck driver. Most carriers pay by the mile. The more miles you drive the bigger your paycheck. You are not limited by an hourly wage. For the most part, you decide when you run. With most jobs, you come in and punch a clock at a certain time and clock out at a certain time. There are few jobs where you can exercise that much control over your job and income. That doesn't mean that you have no one to answer to, but it does offer flexibility. There are drawbacks to the business, as with any other. There are some things I would like to see changed. That would be true with any industry. You are not going to find the perfect job. It doesn't exist. You are not going to be happy 100% of the time with any job. You just find one that has more things you like than dislike.

Last edited by GMAN; 10-05-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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  #56  
Old 10-05-2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bigtimba View Post
Alright, GMAN, here I go again . .

I was issued a new truck last Thursday. I had "taken the day off" to get everything moved from old to new and to get myself situated. I didn't get paid for it though I should have been as it was certainly in the companies interest. Oh well.

The company gave you a new truck to drive and you are upset that they would not pay you to take your personal items out of the old truck and put them into the new truck? I would be thrilled to have the new truck.


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Stop right there. You know what that means. If I get there and there's no one waiting, I'm in, loaded and on my way. If there are a few trucks waiting I have to give up my two hour grace period. If there's a pantload of trucks waiting, I give up my two hours and with the grace of God, detention might kick in. There is no expectation of efficiency because the odds are pretty good the driver won't get paid. The incentive is reflected proportionately to the benefit or consequences. Don't get me wrong. The forklift driver will be running his ass off as long as there are trucks to load. His employer is paying him and needs him to be efficient.

It was a live load and it required an empty, obviously. This terminal assigns empties on the basis of pick up time and I was told not to expect one until the back end of the pick up window.
I agree that there are shippers who waste our time. This is something that the ATA should address with their members. If most carriers went along with this then things would change. Unless the majority agreed to make this part of their agreement with shippers things will not change. Carriers should be compensated when their trucks are kept waiting excessively. Drivers should also be compensated for having their time wasted. However, carriers cannot afford to pay drivers to sit when they are not being compensated. Until the industry stands up on this issue things will not change. I pay my drivers percentage. If we collect detention then the driver receives his fair share of that revenue. It is an industry challenge.



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The problem is that these frauds and felonies are perpertraded on the new and inexperienced and experienced but ignorant Drivers, everyday. They don't know any better. All they know is that it means miles and what difference does it make if I start this load at noon or midnight.

You and I both know that these shanannigans go on everyday. It happens at every company and it represents an enormous amount of money. If that crap was converted to cost and that cost was reflected in freight rates, there would be no such thing as cheap freight.

In my world, whether the Driver was brand spanking new, or me, if we were being paid, the appropriate and efficient solution would always be the default. If all the individual cogs are working efficiently then the whole machine works more efficiently. In the business world, that means more money.

I disagree that this happens at EVERY company. I have NEVER expected any of my drivers to run illegally. NEVER!! I agree that there are some who do, but not all. It is up to the driver to say no.


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In your world, there will always be bad apples conspiring to subvert the interests of the employer and you conclude it could never work. Better aka fairer pay will NOT attract and retain better employees and, in the long run it's in everyone's interest to hang on to the lowest common denominator at the expense of the top performers.

The ignorant stay, the disgruntled regurgitate themselves and the fools like me try to get things changed.
There are good drivers and bad. I don't think there are always bad apples conspiring to do anything against their employers. There are enough to impact the industry in a negative way. There are sufficient numbers where paying an hourly wage for all their time will not work. When people are paid by the hour there is no incentive for them to perform at peak levels. They will only do what is necessary to keep their jobs. Not all, but some. Some people will do their best no matter what they are paid. Better pay is earned based upon the employee's performance, as it should. Other than detention for excessive waiting times at shippers, I don't see that there is anything that is unfair about the pay. And with detention, the carrier cannot afford to pay detention unless they collect it. If an employee will not do his best at the lower wage then there is no expectation that paying him more will enhance his job performance. Employers will pay top performers more than those who perform at mediocre levels. Paying drivers mileage or on percentage works for both the driver and carrier. It provides compensation for performance and has accountability. The only area I see that should be addressed is detention time. That needs to be addressed by the industry as a whole.
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  #57  
Old 10-05-2008, 02:10 PM
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Most companies are moving toward eliminating long haul runs and going more to the short to medium haul freight. That's where the money is. Technically, it's been where the money has been for a long time.
That is where the money is for the companies maybe, as long as drivers are paid piecework style, as in mileage pay. But in reality the driver takes it up the A$$ sitting in docks twice a day and trying to stay within the 14 hour rule.

Last edited by Part Time Dweller; 10-05-2008 at 02:14 PM.
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  #58  
Old 10-05-2008, 02:22 PM
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A lot of carriers who pull vans do drop and hook. That maximizes the drivers time and minimizes his down time.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:27 PM
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Many don't.And we all know that the load is always ready when the driver arrives to.:rolleyes:

I know you own trucks Gman and take full advantage of the free labor provided by your drivers. You may be able to sugarcoat it with your employees, but many of us know who makes the Big $$ off the piecemeal pay system.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Part Time Dweller View Post
Many don't.And we all know that the load is always ready when the driver arrives to.:rolleyes:

I know you own trucks Gman and take full advantage of the free labor provided by your drivers. You may be able to sugarcoat it with your employees, but many of us know who makes the Big $$ off the piecemeal pay system.

My drivers don't work for free. I pay a percentage of everything the truck makes except the fuel surcharge. You should not assume things about my business that you have no way of knowing. I just paid one driver over $1,400 last week. I doubt that he feels he is working for free or minimum wage. :rolleyes:
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