split logging

[jimbo63]

hello every one this jimbo i am starting a new job next week finally.im gonna be running northeast and the midatlantic states.does anyone have any opinions on wether its better to split log or just run your eleven and take ten off.im asking becouse in the four years i have driven i dont ever remember having to split my log.ive look at how to do it online i almost think i understand it but it looks like it could get confusing the more you use it.i for one, and any body can tell me if im wrong but wouldnt it be easier just to take the xtra 2 hours and stayput for the solid ten hour sleepr.then you always have a solid ten hours to run.versus doing the split log where sometimes depnding how you do it you could have less hours available each time.the 2 hour split doesnt really give me much time to do anything it usually takes me that long to fall a sleep.so itd just be spent awake anyways.so to me i think drive 10 to 11 hours and take ten slper then that gives you a solid 11 hours back running and a fresh 14. id apreciate any advice from veteran drivers or anyone else that has done a lot of split logging and have any idea which is better to do.thanks jimbo

[TK THE TRUCKER]

I definitely recommend just taking a 10 hour break. Splitting up the resting time can really mess things up sometimes. I've only split once since they revised the rules and I ended up doing it wrong. I always just show a 10 hour break no matter what. My company recommend to that everyone not split, it causes havoc in the safety department when auditing logs. They end up with a lot of drivers with a lot of violations. 8) 8)

[Fredog]

I definitely recommend just taking a 10 hour break. Splitting up the resting time can really mess things up sometimes. I've only split once since they revised the rules and I ended up doing it wrong. I always just show a 10 hour break no matter what. My company recommend to that everyone not split, it causes havoc in the safety department when auditing logs. They end up with a lot of drivers with a lot of violations. 8) 8)

I second that

[jimbo63]

thanks for taking the time to respond i cant remember ever splitlogging in my four years of driving i always did 10 off it restarts everything with out a hassle. so far all the site i posted on pretty much say the same thing avoid it. the company im going to gave me a couple of copies of of split logging so i thaught that might be how there drivers do it well i like my way never got a log violation.i did go to a couple of sites that show how to do it and sometimes you end up with only a few hours left to drive before you need to stop.i prefer to do the driving all at once then then take ten.thanks again

[Uturn2001]

I concur. 99.99% of the time split logging is more trouble than it is worth with the way it is written now.

[street_95]

i can say that i have never done it..........reason being, i havent the slightest idea and it is more hassle....i can always find a way to fit a 10 hr break anywhere anytime

[Rawlco]

I use it about once a week, like on Thursday night when I have a short trip home friday and took a two hour break thursday afternoon I can get home earlier. Other than that it isn't much use to me.

First if you use it every day your days start earlier and earlier. Monday starts at 8am, tuesday 6am, wednesday 4am, thursday 2am, friday at 12:01 am if you use it all week. That really screws with my sleep patterns.

Second you can use it one day to get your delivery off earlier, but you are locked in to taking that two hour break during the course of the day, sometimes that wastes valuable time you could have used. Usually I find that the days I use it I find myself wishing I hadn't.

[chuck3507]

I use it alot. It doesn't really give you any more time. Just helps if you can't get a full ten before an appointment time, or if you want to start a couple hours ahead of rush hour.

[lurchgs]

I was gonna suggest that it probably matters most if you deal with slow docks. Y'know - the kind that take 7 hours to off load 3 pallets.

SO, obviously, for some people, it will make a lot more sense than for others.

[golfhobo]

I use it about once a week, like on Thursday night when I have a short trip home friday and took a two hour break thursday afternoon I can get home earlier. Other than that it isn't much use to me.

First if you use it every day your days start earlier and earlier. Monday starts at 8am, tuesday 6am, wednesday 4am, thursday 2am, friday at 12:01 am if you use it all week. That really screws with my sleep patterns.

Second you can use it one day to get your delivery off earlier, but you are locked in to taking that two hour break during the course of the day, sometimes that wastes valuable time you could have used. Usually I find that the days I use it I find myself wishing I hadn't.

Okay, Rawlco, I've let this slide for as long as I can.... now I must respond! this interpretation of the split logging rule makes no sense to me!

TWO hours in the afternoon, and 8 hours at night equalls the SAME 10 hours as if you took them ALL at night! The ONLY way the "circadian" rythm is distorted is when you DON'T spend the extra 2-3 hours on the dock! IF one drives 11 hours a day and takes 10 off (either STRAIGHT or SPLIT, he will ALWAYS, ALWAYS be working a 22 hour day ( accounting for fueling and pretrips) and thus will ALWAYS be "backing up" by two hours a day! Splitting makes NO DIFFERENCE in this equation!

I have used the "new" splitting rules EXTENSIVELY in the few SOLO runs I have made! I've even used it while TEAMING! The "trick" is to combine ALL your little 15 minute stops during the day into ONE 2 hour "block" Then take only 8 hours at night (for shutdown) and get on the road SOONER! But.... it is really no SOONER, than IF you could have arrived 2 hours earilier with a faster truck, (or by keeping the doors closed,) and shut down for a full 10!

I can't believe I'm saying this...but EVEN one of these SLOW truck... LOG IT AS YOU DO IT, drivers will have the SAME outcome! If he WANTS to take a two hour break during the day to shower, eat, etc., he will ONLY have to shut down for 8 hours at night! He gets on the road again at the SAME time as the guy who took the 10 hour break!

The "new" split logging is something that should ONLY be used by those who will "speed average" to get an advantage. IMHO, this BARELY balances out for the way things USED to be, when truckers could extend their clock for EVERY break they took!

But, Rawlco, YOUR math doesn't add up! IF a driver "splits" and takes two hours nap in the afternoon, then he will ARRIVE two hours later, and given the SAME unload time, if he shuts down for only 8 hours..... he is at the SAME timeframe as a driver who unloaded two hours earlier, and took a full 10 hour break! the "circadian rhythm" is based on about 3 hours "dock time" to make every driver's workday a FULL 14 hours..... plus 10 hour break..... start the same time everyday! Splitting has absolutely NOTHING to do with this "rhythm!" :wink:

[COLT]

Rawlco doesn't have circadian rhythm... Thats why he can't dance :wink:

[Rawlco]

Rawlco doesn't have circadian rhythm... Thats why he can't dance :wink:

Oh, so that's why I can't dance. Thanks Colt. :wink:

[golfhobo]

Rawlco doesn't have circadian rhythm... Thats why he can't dance :wink:

Oh, so that's why I can't dance. Thanks Colt. :wink:

And all this time I thought it was because he kept tripping over his cape!

[Rawlco]

Okay, Rawlco, I've let this slide for as long as I can.... now I must respond! this interpretation of the split logging rule makes no sense to me!

TWO hours in the afternoon, and 8 hours at night equalls the SAME 10 hours as if you took them ALL at night! The ONLY way the "circadian" rythm is distorted is when you DON'T spend the extra 2-3 hours on the dock! IF one drives 11 hours a day and takes 10 off (either STRAIGHT or SPLIT, he will ALWAYS, ALWAYS be working a 22 hour day ( accounting for fueling and pretrips) and thus will ALWAYS be "backing up" by two hours a day! Splitting makes NO DIFFERENCE in this equation!

Ok Hobo. It seems to me that I am right, but perhaps not communicating this effectively. Let's go through a typical week split logging for me.

Monday my 14 hour clock runs from 8am to 10pm. I go and deliver, then bounce empty and in the afternoon I end up waiting 2 hours before getting loaded at the shipper. This puts me 90 miles short of my consignee at 10pm. Taking only an 8 hour break allows me to start at 6am correct? I have 1.5 hours of driving and .5 hour unload putting me empty at 8am. I can then bounce empty to the shipper and spend 1 hour getting loaded allowing me to take my 2 hour break later at a truckstop getting a shower and a meal. Tuesday ends at 8pm having started at 6am. Taking an 8 hour break allows Wednesday to start at 4 am doesn't it? Do you see the pattern yet?

I have used the "new" splitting rules EXTENSIVELY in the few SOLO runs I have made! I've even used it while TEAMING! The "trick" is to combine ALL your little 15 minute stops during the day into ONE 2 hour "block" Then take only 8 hours at night (for shutdown) and get on the road SOONER! But.... it is really no SOONER, than IF you could have arrived 2 hours earilier with a faster truck, (or by keeping the doors closed,) and shut down for a full 10!

I agree with that completely Hobo. This is what I am talking about getting locked in to the pattern of split logging. You take an 8 hour break one night and the next day you have to take that 2 hour break sometime. That sets you up for only taking an 8 hour break again that night. Sometimes it is inconvenient to take that 2 hour break and you would have accomplished more without it.

I can't believe I'm saying this...but EVEN one of these SLOW truck... LOG IT AS YOU DO IT, drivers will have the SAME outcome! If he WANTS to take a two hour break during the day to shower, eat, etc., he will ONLY have to shut down for 8 hours at night! He gets on the road again at the SAME time as the guy who took the 10 hour break!

I believe that I mentioned in my post

you can use it one day to get your delivery off earlier, but you are locked in to taking that two hour break during the course of the day, sometimes that wastes valuable time you could have used. Usually I find that the days I use it I find myself wishing I hadn't.

because it doesn't always get you any further down the road. I generally use it to make up time that was lost somewhere, not gain time.

The decision to split log depends on weather you can get to your delivery before you need to take the 2 hour break or not. Take my Tuesday example above: You could take a full 10 hour break monday night and arrive at the consignee at 9:30 am, but your appointment was set for 8am by people in the office on Friday when they booked that freight. Sure you could change it but by using split logging you can make that appointment on time AND avoid more rush hour traffic perhaps depending on your location.

But, Rawlco, YOUR math doesn't add up! IF a driver "splits" and takes two hours nap in the afternoon, then he will ARRIVE two hours later, and given the SAME unload time, if he shuts down for only 8 hours..... he is at the SAME timeframe as a driver who unloaded two hours earlier, and took a full 10 hour break!

Again I am not advocating taking a random 2 hour break for no reason the first day if that will delay you. I might take a 2 hour break one day if I was ahead of schedule, or if there was a delay in loading, unloading, or getting dispatched on a new load when empty. Lets say I have 45 miles left to get to my consignee, 4 hours remaining on my clock for the day, and I can park at a truckstop between 4:30 and 6:30 pm to wait out rush hour, get a meal and a shower, and still be parked at my consignee for 8 hours before they open in the am. That is when I will gladly split log as it is a win-win-win situation. The next day I will have 10.25 hours to drive in 13.25 hours and will not need to take that two hour break, thereby ending the cycle. I cannot justify sitting for two hours to gain 45 minutes of driving.

Does that make more sense Hobo?

[golfhobo]

Rawlco said:

Ok Hobo. It seems to me that I am right, but perhaps not communicating this effectively. Let's go through a typical week split logging for me.

Monday my 14 hour clock runs from 8am to 10pm. I go and deliver, then bounce empty and in the afternoon I end up waiting 2 hours before getting loaded at the shipper. This puts me 90 miles short of my consignee at 10pm. Taking only an 8 hour break allows me to start at 6am correct? I have 1.5 hours of driving and .5 hour unload putting me empty at 8am. I can then bounce empty to the shipper and spend 1 hour getting loaded allowing me to take my 2 hour break later at a truckstop getting a shower and a meal. Tuesday ends at 8pm having started at 6am. Taking an 8 hour break allows Wednesday to start at 4 am doesn't it? Do you see the pattern yet?

Okay, Rawlco, I gotta make this quick because I am due to leave out. I understand what you are saying. IF you log that 2 hour wait at the shipper as a BREAK, it will help to SPLIT, and then you will be locked in. But, look at the statement I highlighted. In a general sense (on a longer trip without daily loads/unloads.... you could shutdown at 6pm (or cover more miles) if you didn't take the break. If you arrived at the SAME spot at 6 pm and took 10 hours off, you'd STILL start at 4 a.m. Wednesday.

And go back to day ONE. With only a 2 hour detention, and minimizing fuel stops/PTI's, you would run out of your 11 hours of driving at about 9 p.m! You can't get those extra miles to 10 p.m. cuz you can't DRIVE 12 hours.

I KNOW I'm not making much sense, cuz I'm in a hurry to post. But, I'm thinking of LONG hauls, where you don't HAVE a daily 2 hour detention at a dock. In THAT case, it makes no difference whether you split or not, you will ALWAYS start 2 hours sooner the next day.

Personally, I take several 15-20 min breaks during the day but DON'T log them! When I get where I want to shutdown, I SAY I either TOOK a 2 hour break... and SPLIT.... or I say I got there 2 hours earlier.... and LOG a full 10. EITHER way, I can ONLY leave at the SAME time the next day..... and it will ALWAYS be two hours sooner than the day before!

Do you see what I am saying?

Obviously, IF I spent 2 hours EVERY day at a dock.... I would SPLIT log JUST to keep from LOSING time! But, what if they timestamp, and you only got 1.5 hours detention? THAT is when you must "speed average" to SAY you arrived at the dock earlier, so that you can LOG that 2 hour break!

MY point was.... IF your day consists ONLY of driving (on a longer haul) it makes no difference whether you split or not (IF you speed average,) you will STILL only have a 21-22 hour day, and you will ALWAYS start 2 hours earlier the next day..... UNLESS you just burn time, and stay on a circadian rhythm. If I was solo, and only NEEDED to get 600 miles a day... I would do what I wanted to GET there, then SHOW that I got there within the 11/14... and then take a LONG night off and start the same time each morning!

But, the FACT is.... whether you SPLIT or not.... you must take 10 hours off every day, and 10 + 11 + 1 (for fuel/pti's) = a 22 hour day.... and a 2 hour earlier start the NEXT day.

You either arrive LATER at shutdown if you take a 2 hour nap and take 8 hours off.... or you arrive EARLIER at the SAME point, and take 10 hours off! Either way.... (without detentions) you start 2 hours earlier every day!

Don't know if that made sense, but I gotta go now! If I made an error in my math or something..... we'll discuss it next weekend. I HOPE to be home by Friday night!

Hobo

[chuck3507]

Even if you always take a full 10, the only way you will start at the same time everday is to run out your 14, then take your 10 making it exactly twenty four hours later.

[Rawlco]

Okay, Rawlco, I gotta make this quick because I am due to leave out. I understand what you are saying. IF you log that 2 hour wait at the shipper as a BREAK, it will help to SPLIT, and then you will be locked in.

Exactly. Once you do that the first day you have to take a two hour break the second day, regardless of what you want. For the following you have to refer ONLY to the specific example I laid out.

allowing me to take my 2 hour break later at a truckstop getting a shower and a meal. Tuesday ends at 8pm having started at 6am.

But, look at the statement I highlighted. In a general sense (on a longer trip without daily loads/unloads.... you could shutdown at 6pm (or cover more miles) if you didn't take the break.

Right. But I am am required to take that two hour break because I only took an eight hour break the night before. If I had taken a full TEN hour break the night before I couldn't have started until 8am so I would be able to skip that two hour break in the afternoon but I am already two hours later getting started on the day. The end result is the same number of miles by 8pm.

If you arrived at the SAME spot at 6 pm and took 10 hours off, you'd STILL start at 4 a.m. Wednesday.

Nope, because you had to take a full ten hour break between Monday and Tuesday as well. Actually you have also lost 30 possible miles on Tuesday with this split if I am figuring that right, because taking the 14 hours from 6am to 8pm and subtracting 1.5 hours for unloading/loading and 2 hour break to complete the split leaves only 10.5 hours of driving. Take another 15 monutes for fuel and pti out of that and you only got 10.25 hours of driving on Tuesday BUT you are going to start Wednesday earlier, so it is a tradeoff.

And go back to day ONE. With only a 2 hour detention, and minimizing fuel stops/PTI's, you would run out of your 11 hours of driving at about 9 p.m! You can't get those extra miles to 10 p.m. cuz you can't DRIVE 12 hours.

The extra hour is taken up by one half hour to unload and one half hour to load after waiting two hours to load. Of course you don't deal with this daily loading and unloading so I understand your point of view.

I KNOW I'm not making much sense, cuz I'm in a hurry to post. But, I'm thinking of LONG hauls, where you don't HAVE a daily 2 hour detention at a dock. In THAT case, it makes no difference whether you split or not, you will ALWAYS start 2 hours sooner the next day.

Exactly. I agree. Splitting can be used to regain time that was lost on the dock or waiting for a load assignment, but you cannot manufacture additional time in your day by split logging.

Obviously, IF I spent 2 hours EVERY day at a dock.... I would SPLIT log JUST to keep from LOSING time! But, what if they timestamp, and you only got 1.5 hours detention? THAT is when you must "speed average" to SAY you arrived at the dock earlier, so that you can LOG that 2 hour break!

It isn't perfect. If you are not at the dock more than 2.5 hours it doesn't make much sense to split if you do not need to. If you need the two hour break then stretching the 1.5 hours at the dock into 2.5 isn't that hard.

MY point was.... IF your day consists ONLY of driving (on a longer haul) it makes no difference whether you split or not (IF you speed average,) you will STILL only have a 21-22 hour day, and you will ALWAYS start 2 hours earlier the next day..... UNLESS you just burn time, and stay on a circadian rhythm. If I was solo, and only NEEDED to get 600 miles a day... I would do what I wanted to GET there, then SHOW that I got there within the 11/14... and then take a LONG night off and start the same time each morning!

We are on the same page with this Hobo. I was proud of the fact that if I needed to I could legally put on 685 to 700 miles every 22 hours. Barring a 55 mph state of course.

But, the FACT is.... whether you SPLIT or not.... you must take 10 hours off every day, and 10 + 11 + 1 (for fuel/pti's) = a 22 hour day.... and a 2 hour earlier start the NEXT day.

Right. For those of us who deliver every day add one hour for unloading and one for loading and you get 24 hours which is what I think the DOT intended when writing the rules, not that it came out that way.

Don't know if that made sense, but I gotta go now! If I made an error in my math or something..... we'll discuss it next weekend. I HOPE to be home by Friday night!

Hobo

You make perfect sense Hobo. All you have to do is admit that I make sense too. :wink:

[Cat6869]

Shouldn't most drivers want to stop and eat, shower & relax for @ least 2 hours during their 14 hour day? I am thinking from what I hear the shower will take 30 minutes probably, eat will take 30 minutes so you relax 1 more hour and there is the 2 hour break. Now when you should be taking your 10 you only have to take 8 hour break.

Understanding the 14 hour restarts from the end of the 2 hour break
&
any driving time in BETWEEN the 8 & 2 is counting against your 11.

But that's my thought to it! Now if that 2 hour break happens to be at a customer yeah you

Just a thought to think about. That 2 hour break really shouldn't be much and it makes you safer on the road because you get a break from all that stress us 4 wheelers cause you

[Rawlco]

Shouldn't most drivers want to stop and eat, shower & relax for @ least 2 hours during their 14 hour day? I am thinking from what I hear the shower will take 30 minutes probably, eat will take 30 minutes so you relax 1 more hour and there is the 2 hour break. Now when you should be taking your 10 you only have to take 8 hour break.

That is what I do if I have time. Between a shower and a good sit down meal I can easily spend two hours. The time is not always there though.

Understanding the 14 hour restarts from the end of the 2 hour break

Almost correct. In split logging the 14 hour clock counts from the end of the PREVIOUS break. So if you have an 8 hour break ending at 8am and then take a two hour break from noon to 2pm your 14 hour clock runs from 8am to 10pm and the 2 hour break does not extent your 14 hour clock. Then you take the 8 hour break from 10pm to 6am, and at the end of that your 14 hour clock runs from 2pm (the end of the previous break) until noon because the eight hour break "pauses" the 14 hour clock. Once you take your next two hour break starting at noon or before (you can take it anytime) your 14 hour clock for that day runs from 6am to 8pm.

Please note that the above example is specific to the times listed in that example only and it is not a complete explanation.

any driving time in BETWEEN the 8 & 2 is counting against your 11.

Any time driving in the whole 14 hour window cannot exceet 11 hours. That is why figuring the 14 is so important.

[golfhobo]

Shouldn't most drivers want to stop and eat, shower & relax for @ least 2 hours during their 14 hour day? I am thinking from what I hear the shower will take 30 minutes probably, eat will take 30 minutes so you relax 1 more hour and there is the 2 hour break. Now when you should be taking your 10 you only have to take 8 hour break.

That is what I do if I have time. Between a shower and a good sit down meal I can easily spend two hours. The time is not always there though.

Understanding the 14 hour restarts from the end of the 2 hour break

Almost correct. In split logging the 14 hour clock counts from the end of the PREVIOUS break. So if you have an 8 hour break ending at 8am and then take a two hour break from noon to 2pm your 14 hour clock runs from 8am to 10pm and the 2 hour break does not extent your 14 hour clock. Then you take the 8 hour break from 10pm to 6am, and at the end of that your 14 hour clock runs from 2pm (the end of the previous break) until noon because the eight hour break "pauses" the 14 hour clock. Once you take your next two hour break starting at noon or before (you can take it anytime) your 14 hour clock for that day runs from 6am to 8pm.

Please note that the above example is specific to the times listed in that example only and it is not a complete explanation.

any driving time in BETWEEN the 8 & 2 is counting against your 11.

(AND against your 14 hour clock... as does any OTHER times logged on any line.)

Any time driving in the whole 14 hour window cannot exceet 11 hours. That is why figuring the 14 is so important.

Rawlco: You were "gone" for awhile, so I'm not sure you realize that Cat6869 is DAWN. Obviously, she KNOWS the regs.. (just ASK her! :wink: ) ..... but, she just has this uncanny inability to express them in a comprehensive way so as not to mislead!

As for the part of YOUR explanation I highlighted....

"Be it known... and further stipulated... by all parties hereto...."

That as long as you quit DRIVING by noon (in your example) you "could" spend another two hours unloading and THEN take your 2 hour break at 2 p.m. if you wanted to! [That's not "before noon" is it??] This would shorten your available driving time by one hour, but it DOES show that there is more flexibility than YOUR words (and those of many Safety Directors) allow for as well. :wink:

Sorry!!! Just HAD to "muddy" that up a bit for the newbies!

Hobo