City Driving Logging "Metro"

[belpre122]

My company recently began requiring us to keep log books. I recall being trained in logging "metro" for city work, but have forgotten the specifics and am looking for more info. Thanks.

[Uturn2001]

Direct from the FMCSA regulatory guidence

Question 6: How should multiple short stops in a town or city be recorded on a record of duty status?

Guidance: All stops made in any one city, town, village or municipality may be computed as one. In such cases the sum of all stops should be shown on a continuous line as on-duty (not driving). The aggregate driving time between such stops should be entered on the record of duty status immediately following the on-duty (not driving) entry. The name of the city, town, village, or municipality, followed by the State abbreviation where all the stops took place, must appear in the "remarks" section of the record of duty status.

[vavega]

below the town/state line i always add in the number of stops, just to be clear and so it matches my manifest.

example

carlstadt, NJ
3 stops

[belpre122]

Ok. So if I start my day in Indianapolis, I can go directly from line 1 to line 4. Do my pre-trip and stay on Line 4 while delivering in Indianapolis. I did see that the aggregate driving time is to be noted. How is this done? Line 3 or a manual note eg "45 minutes driving" Thanks for the help.

[Uturn2001]

Lets say you spend 4 hours working in Indy at multiple locations. 3 hours of that you were at various docks and 1 hour of that you were driving to and from the various locations.

You would log 3 consecutive hours on line 4 (On duty) and then 1 hour on line 3 (driving)

In the comment section make a note for each duty cycle on the log.

Something like:

(Line 3) Indianapolis, IN Multiple stops
(Line 4) Indianapolis, IN Total driving time for multi stops.

[kc0iv]

Ok. So if I start my day in Indianapolis, I can go directly from line 1 to line 4. Do my pre-trip and stay on Line 4 while delivering in Indianapolis. I did see that the aggregate driving time is to be noted. How is this done? Line 3 or a manual note eg "45 minutes driving" Thanks for the help.

The FMCSA doesn't directly address how driving time vs On-Duty time is to be logged. I would suggest you log On-Duty (driving) time to your first stop. Then log Of-Duty (Not Driving) for all your stops. Then On-Duty (Driving) for all the time you spent On-Duty (Driving).

Remember ALL your stops MUST be in the same city (town).

As an example. Lets say you start driving in Indianapolis and your first stop is in Sterling Heights the our next three stops are in Indianapolis then you go to Zionsville and make two stops the back to the barn in Indianapolis.

In the example I just gave you would show your On-Duty (driving) to Sterling Heights plus your time un-loading On-Duty (not driving).
Go to On-Duty (driving) to your first stop in Indianapolis. At which you would log On-Duty (not driving) till you finished to the end of third stop then you would add up the time you spent driving and subtract that from the time you have as On-Duty (not driving). Log this as On-Duty (driving).

At which time you again show your driving time to Zionsville. Then you again show On-Duty (not driving) for the two stops you make in Zionsville. Again subtract your driving time from you On-Duty (not driving) time and show this as On-Duty (driving).

At which time you would again log On-Duty (driving) back to the barn in Indianapolis.

One last point. You would show the Sterling Heights as one stop location. Three stop in Indianapolis as one entry location. Two stops in Zionsville location.

What the D.O.T. wants to know is how many hours you have driven vs how many hours you were not driving.

You would also show your pre-trip/ post-trip time as On Duty (not driving) before and after your On Duty (driving) time.

I hope this makes sense. In many cases it is simplier to show each trip and not log muli-stops.

kc0iv

[belpre122]

KC0IV and U-turn..... Thanks for the explanation. That did clear it up for me. The Zionsville reference is particularly spot-on
KC0IV de WT8P QSL. 73 AR

[belpre122]

Regarding what constitutes a "city." I seem to remember in training that a major metropolitan area, eg Indianapolis could be logged as "Indianapolis" without worrying about the smaller suburbs in the area, eg Speedway, Greenwood, Zionsville, Lawrence etc. While I realize that I may be wandering in to some muddy area here, I remember that we were trained that when in a metropolitan area, that we could log "city driving" under the major city. If I recall correctly, the areas (suburbs etc) surrounding a large city that were included in the Rand-McNally orange colored area around the large city would all be inclusive of logging "Indianapolis?" Instead of logging a small suburb such as Zionsville, etc? That should muddy things up a bit. Sorry LOL

[countryhorseman]

From my training notes, you are correct - logging such as Indianapolis Metro Area would be acceptable.

Take San Antonio, TX for instance - you may travel through 3 different municipalities all within the loop to get from one-side to the other - we log multiple deliveries as San Antonio Metro Area!

Regarding what constitutes a "city." I seem to remember in training that a major metropolitan area, eg Indianapolis could be logged as "Indianapolis" without worrying about the smaller suburbs in the area, eg Speedway, Greenwood, Zionsville, Lawrence etc. While I realize that I may be wandering in to some muddy area here, I remember that we were trained that when in a metropolitan area, that we could log "city driving" under the major city. If I recall correctly, the areas (suburbs etc) surrounding a large city that were included in the Rand-McNally orange colored area around the large city would all be inclusive of logging "Indianapolis?" Instead of logging a small suburb such as Zionsville, etc? That should muddy things up a bit. Sorry LOL

[Cat6869]

Below is the DOT regulations on what constitutes local driving, which in your case sounds like it.

(e) Short-haul operations.

(e)(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.8 if:

(e)(1)(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location;

(MUST BE NORMAL REPORTING LOCATION)

(e)(1)(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours;

(e)(1)(iii)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty

(e)(1)(iii)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 8 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty;

(e)(1)(iv)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 11 hours maximum driving time following 10 consecutive hours off duty; or

(e)(1)(iv)(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 10 hours maximum driving time following 8 consecutive hours off duty; and

(e)(1)(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:
(e)(1)(v)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; So I can keep track of this time for you!

(e)(1)(v)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;
Just a total of hours worked each day

(e)(1)(v)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and
I can keep track of this as well

(e)(1)(v)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.

This is for new hires basically or if you was off for a while, however most log depts want you to turn in something for each day while you are emplyoeed to track what you have done.

(e)(2) Operators of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring a commercial driver’s license. Except as provided in this paragraph, a driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.3 and §395.8 and ineligible to use the provisions of §395.1(e)(1), (g) and (o) if:

Not sure about this, but if you are required to have a Commercial Drivers licences you may fall into this category???

(e)(2)(i) The driver operates a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a commercial driver’s license is not required under part 383 of this subchapter;

(e)(2)(ii) The driver operates within a 150 air-mile radius of the location where the driver reports to and is released from work, i.e., the normal work reporting location;

(e)(2)(iii) The driver returns to the normal work reporting location at the end of each duty tour;

(e)(2)(iv) The driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each on-duty period;

(e)(2)(v) The driver does not drive more than 11 hours following at least 10 consecutive hours off duty;

(e)(2)(vi) The driver does not drive:

(e)(2)(vi)(A) After the 14th hour after coming on duty on 5 days of any period of 7 consecutive days; and

(e)(2)(vi)(B) After the 16th hour after coming on duty on 2 days of any period of 7 consecutive days;

(e)(2)(vii) The driver does not drive:

(e)(2)(vii)(A) After having been on duty for 60 hours in 7 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier does not operate commercial motor vehicles every day of the week;

(e)(2)(vii)(B) After having been on duty for 70 hours in 8 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier operates commercial motor vehicles every day of the week;

(e)(2)(viii) Any period of 7 or 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.

(e)(2)(ix) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:

(e)(2)(ix)(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day;

(e)(2)(ix)(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;

(e)(2)(ix)(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day;

(e)(2)(ix)(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.

[Uturn2001]

Cat, those regs that you are quoting do not really apply in this case since the driver's company is requiring him to keep a log book.

[belpre122]

Cat, those regs that you are quoting do not really apply in this case since the driver's company is requiring him to keep a log book.

Thanks for the effort/info though Cat. I do fall under the 100 air mile radius stipulation. The company suddently decided that we need to start keeping log books for some reason. Possibly, they are expecting to pick up some accounts in neighboring states. I have not really minded too much. We also received the "gift" of GPS tracking at about the same time, so I am going to assume this might all be related. The "city driving", "metro" methods were so far in the past for me that I am just trying to make sure that I am logging correctly if I use these methods. At this point I have been using traditional logging............................and may stick with it LOL Thanks again.

[kc0iv]

From my training notes, you are correct - logging such as Indianapolis Metro Area would be acceptable.

Take San Antonio, TX for instance - you may travel through 3 different municipalities all within the loop to get from one-side to the other - we log multiple deliveries as San Antonio Metro Area!

As I said before FMCSA doesn't really explain the Muli-stop.

Any school that teaches it as a "major metropolitan area" has no support from FMCSA. It is an assumption on their part. As I said earlier in most cases the distance traveled between stops is long enough you could simply not use the muli-stop option.

Logging a city such as Indianapolis might be fine, but what about a city such as New York City, Chicago, or Los Angeles? In cities like these you can have hundreds of miles that would include a "major metropolitan area."

kc0iv

[countryhorseman]

For your information - this course was taught by a Senior Texas Department of Public Safety Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Officer! It was a multi-level pilot course presented by the State of Texas! Not related to any school or trucking company! So I would believe the man knows what he is talking about!

There is a website, cannot find the link off hand, that gives legal interpretations of FMCSA rulings, and at the time, what I posted fell in line with those! When I get back in this afternoon, I will attempt to find it and post it here!

Unfortunately, the program has not received adequate funding and have been shelved for the time being! Hopefully at the next legislative session it will get its funding, and be made available for all Commercial drivers in the state and be a guide for other states.

From my training notes, you are correct - logging such as Indianapolis Metro Area would be acceptable.

Take San Antonio, TX for instance - you may travel through 3 different municipalities all within the loop to get from one-side to the other - we log multiple deliveries as San Antonio Metro Area!

As I said before FMCSA doesn't really explain the Muli-stop.

Any school that teaches it as a "major metropolitan area" has no support from FMCSA. It is an assumption on their part. As I said earlier in most cases the distance traveled between stops is long enough you could simply not use the muli-stop option.

Logging a city such as Indianapolis might be fine, but what about a city such as New York City, Chicago, or Los Angeles? In cities like these you can have hundreds of miles that would include a "major metropolitan area."

kc0iv

[Manicmechnic]

We also received the "gift" of GPS tracking at about the same time, so I am going to assume this might all be related. The "city driving", "metro" methods were so far in the past for me that I am just trying to make sure that I am logging correctly if I use these methods. At this point I have been using traditional logging............................and may stick with it LOL Thanks again.

What GPS unit? If it logs and you log I believe that is illeagle. I drove with a XATA I was told do not log in a book use the XATA. I'll look it up but if somebody finds for sure that would be great.

[kc0iv]

For your information - this course was taught by a Senior Texas Department of Public Safety Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Officer! It was a multi-level pilot course presented by the State of Texas! Not related to any school or trucking company! So I would believe the man knows what he is talking about!

There is a website, cannot find the link off hand, that gives legal interpretations of FMCSA rulings, and at the time, what I posted fell in line with those! When I get back in this afternoon, I will attempt to find it and post it here!

Unfortunately, the program has not received adequate funding and have been shelved for the time being! Hopefully at the next legislative session it will get its funding, and be made available for all Commercial drivers in the state and be a guide for other states.

countryhorseman Having had many discussions with you in the past I learned you want to have the last word. So fine YOU can have the last word on this one also.

As I said before the FMCSA is silent on this subject. And unless there has been case law any interpretations is just that an interpretation.

Have a great day.

kc0iv

[belpre122]

Manic.....By "GPS", I meant that they had installed the black boxes that send out location/speed etc every 30 seconds. In other words, they installed a little "snitch" under the dashboard. There is no driver interface involved. If they hadn't told me that they were installing it, I would have never known it was even there.

KC0IV.....Yeah, I agree with you on the spotty precedence that I referred to with the whole Rand-McNally reference. Muddy.......for sure.

Horseman.......Like you, I remember being trained that way. I look forward to seeing what you find out.

Let's see where it goes. Thanks for everybody's input.

[navydad]

Hey BIG G man, whats up? Its me Big K....lol You know we live in the same town and you dont seem to call anymore...lol Well Im back on CAD after a long break. You should have called me, and I could have helped....lol

[belpre122]

Sorry K. Just got wrapped up and kept forgetting!. My BAD! Will give you a call tonight! G

[Double R]

We also received the "gift" of GPS tracking at about the same time, so I am going to assume this might all be related. The "city driving", "metro" methods were so far in the past for me that I am just trying to make sure that I am logging correctly if I use these methods. At this point I have been using traditional logging............................and may stick with it LOL Thanks again.

What GPS unit? If it logs and you log I believe that is illeagle. I drove with a XATA I was told do not log in a book use the XATA. I'll look it up but if somebody finds for sure that would be great.

If your company is using the XATA to log, DONOT USE PAPER! That is considered having two logbooks. That is what we were told. We have XATA units in our trucks(they suck, very buggy) but are still using paper because at this time we are still working the bugs out of the system. We use them right now to enter our stop information at each stop.

As for multi-stop in a metro area, here is an example of how I do it. I run Columbus,OH once a week with nine stops:
Hit first stop and drop to line four. Finish stop and go back to line 3, next stop hit line four and so on. In the remarks I only write Columbs one time. This way I account for all my driving time between stops. If I logged Columbus all on line four and did account for driving, this would throw a speed violation when my company aduits my logs. Is it right? Never had a problem yet and I have been doing multi-stop food deliveries for five years and never got questioned by the DOT at a inspection.