A WARNING FOR ALL NEW DRIVERS

[unclehotte]

Hey ROADHOG, I didnt go after you with my post. Its just the amount of people who put the driver at blame so quick. And you KNOW these guys who want to deliver a load at ANY COST (and any risk). Its one thing to be handy and fix something temporarily. Its another to drive and put yourself or others in danger and HOPE it will work out. I have seen and heard it too often. If the driver overreacted and panicked, thats one thing. To ruin somebodys record is another thing. That is was had me mad, not somebodys humor.

[Colts Fan]

Anyone that has done some reasearch knows that going with CR England on their lease program, especially as a new driver, is a set-up for failure. It helps to do some homework.

[golfhobo]

Well now..... let's look at some FACTS!

The O.P. in his original post said this:

5 min later he called my girlfriends cell phone and said
"this load cannot be late and there is no other teams in salt lake city,
your just going to have to roll the windows down and keep going, you can stop and get it fixed AFTER you deliver this load in MA."

Let's see..... that's Salt Lake City to MASSACHUSSETTS with an exhaust leak, which NONE of you can say wouldn't get WORSE!

I drive team, and I smoke so I have my windows open all the time, and "I" have smelled carbon monoxide in MY cab lately.... and I know it's getting bad when I start getting drowsy! :shock:

Now, let's see how many of you Billy Big Riggers would drive a truck with a NOTICABLE exhaust leak from Salt Lake City to Massachusetts!

First of all, per the regs.... it is illegal for a carrier to force a driver to drive a truck that can't pass a pre-trip, or has an unsafe condition, ONE SINGLE MILE!

Second, an exhaust leak will NOT always be noticed during a pretrip unless it is visible, audible or noticable from OUTSIDE the cab during said inspection.

Also, unless the leak is in the exhaust PIPE leading to the muffler, it is highly unlikely that the wind will "blow it all away." What if it is in the manifold area, and is coming right up through the shifter pocket?

Now, I don't know if this driver did a thorough pretrip or not, or whether he communicated well with his dispatcher..... but it seems he HAD an exhaust leak, and he was told to "git er done" for about 2500 miles, with NO shutoff time, or get screwed!

The FMSCA regulations make NO distinction between the illegality of a driver exceeding his HOS and a carrier insisting that he DOES! Nor does it dinstinguish between a driver operating unsafe equipment and a carrier who insists he does!

What part of this is FUNNY to some of you? :shock:


How is driving with a killer carbon monoxide leak (even if partially diluted by fresh air) any safer than driving under the influence of only a FEW beers? Or driving a few hours over the HOS limit, who cares if you're a bit drowsy??

All I can say is I hope SOME of you are in front of this NEWBIE when he comes barrelling down the hill on your six, and has what YOU think is a "negligible" exhaust leak! :shock:

Oh, but don't worry..... he'll have his windows cracked a bit! Cuz he GOT that "good advice" right here on CAD!!

[YoungZ.W.]

Amen! Roadhog. Amen! To many of this well I would have fixed it myself Ive been a diesel manic for 19o years ****. Not all of us have that luxury. We all know CR England is horrible so why defend them!!!!!!!!!?????????

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Amen! Roadhog. Amen! To many of this well I would have fixed it myself Ive been a diesel manic for 19o years $&!+. Not all of us have that luxury. We all know CR England is horrible so why defend them!!!!!!!!!?????????

I think you meant to give Golfhobo props ...

[headborg]

Well now..... let's look at some FACTS!

The O.P. in his original post said this:

5 min later he called my girlfriends cell phone and said
"this load cannot be late and there is no other teams in salt lake city,
your just going to have to roll the windows down and keep going, you can stop and get it fixed AFTER you deliver this load in MA."

Let's see..... that's Salt Lake City to MASSACHUSSETTS with an exhaust leak, which NONE of you can say wouldn't get WORSE!

I drive team, and I smoke so I have my windows open all the time, and "I" have smelled carbon monoxide in MY cab lately.... and I know it's getting bad when I start getting drowsy! :shock:

Now, let's see how many of you Billy Big Riggers would drive a truck with a NOTICABLE exhaust leak from Salt Lake City to Massachusetts!

First of all, per the regs.... it is illegal for a carrier to force a driver to drive a truck that can't pass a pre-trip, or has an unsafe condition, ONE SINGLE MILE!

Second, an exhaust leak will NOT always be noticed during a pretrip unless it is visible, audible or noticable from OUTSIDE the cab during said inspection.

Also, unless the leak is in the exhaust PIPE leading to the muffler, it is highly unlikely that the wind will "blow it all away." What if it is in the manifold area, and is coming right up through the shifter pocket?

Now, I don't know if this driver did a thorough pretrip or not, or whether he communicated well with his dispatcher..... but it seems he HAD an exhaust leak, and he was told to "git er done" for about 2500 miles, with NO shutoff time, or get screwed!

The FMSCA regulations make NO distinction between the illegality of a driver exceeding his HOS and a carrier insisting that he DOES! Nor does it dinstinguish between a driver operating unsafe equipment and a carrier who insists he does!

What part of this is FUNNY to some of you? :shock:


How is driving with a killer carbon monoxide leak (even if partially diluted by fresh air) any safer than driving under the influence of only a FEW beers? Or driving a few hours over the HOS limit, who cares if you're a bit drowsy??

All I can say is I hope SOME of you are in front of this NEWBIE when he comes barrelling down the hill on your six, and has what YOU think is a "negligible" exhaust leak! :shock:

Oh, but don't worry..... he'll have his windows cracked a bit! Cuz he GOT that "good advice" right here on CAD!!

small point here:
Co- carbon monoxide--is ordorless--that's why it kills you in your sleep.
yes--the exhaust smoke will choke you-but the part that kills has no ordor.
please get a co detector for your truck.

no, I wouldn't drive from Salt lake to Ma- until I found the leak-and get it fixed--but yes, if it's so bad you can't stand to drive/live in the rig---it's bad enough you can easy find-during PTI---9times out of ten---it's burnt through one of the flex fitting.
now the poster didn't say if they 1st noticed the exhaust before they got loaded/dispatched or in route. But in any case, a couple hours in a TA could have fixed it. A simple fix.----
but the other posters are also correct---roll the windows down-fresh air and driver would be fine------except his team mate(wife) or anyone else trying to sleep would be choking on smoke back in the bunk 24-7.

[Roadhog]

I drive team, and I smoke so I have my windows open all the time, and "I" have smelled carbon monoxide in MY cab lately.... and I know it's getting bad when I start getting drowsy! :shock:

Well... :? THAT explains a lot !

Continually inhaling diesel exhaust... affects the Social Centers of the brain. :?

(according to the Arkham Institute's study on Abbynormal Behavior)
They also concluded further findings of advanced paranoia,
clouded with visions of grandeur. :?

[countryhorseman]

Wow, some of you were real quick to lay blame on the drivers! Nobody, that I saw, ask the follow up question! What was the determined source of the leak?

I have had a truck with less than 20,000 miles on it, en-route, after a thorough PTI, have the exhaust slip joint come completely off, just behind the turbo. Myself, being mechanically inclined was able to make the repair roadside and continue. Once reported to the company, they checked the other 20 new trucks, same as mine, and found all of them to be loose.

One mistake the drivers did make, was not having the FM/dispatcher send the proceed regardless message by QC. With just a phone call, they have nothing legally to fall back on, except their word. And possibly the repair invoice from the shop showing the vehicle was unsafe to drive.

Equipment does fail en-route, not everything will be found by a typical pre-trip, and there is not one of you, that do a proper pre-trip everyday. Not one!

According to FMCSA regulations, the driver is ultimately responsible for deciding whether or not their unit is safe to drive. If it is not, the driver has every right to PARK it! Heck, if it had been me, and my dispatched told me to run it regardless, I would have found the first weight station and requested a full level 1 on the unit, pointing out the defect, then showing the inspecting officers the QC message, telling me to run with it. Then, challenge the company to put some BS on my DAC! That would trigger a full inspection of the companies records, they do not want that!

Also, CRE is crooked! This has been highly documented not just on this forum, but numerous lawsuits, and a pending class action suit against them. Their practices are immoral, and everyone should steer clear, especially the lease-purchase program. There are a couple of good companies out there that have decent Lease-purchase plans, that do care about the safety of their drivers.


Nobody in SLC to take the load, what a crock! CRE has lots of drivers in that region, everyday. They could have put it on a SOLO and re-powered along the way. When I was with Stevens, Solo's would pick up a load, and run as far as they could, with a team, or another solo waiting to re-power it. FM's and Dispatchers always have options on critical loads.

Now, as far as the team drivers, maybe, just maybe there were underlying circumstances, such as prior missed deliveries, or other issues. One cannot assume that, from one short post. Not all the facts were available. But again, for the ones that slammed these two, right off the back, knowing CRE is crooked, were just down right wrong!

Have a nice day!

[golfhobo]

Headborg said:

small point here:
Co- carbon monoxide--is ordorless--that's why it kills you in your sleep.
yes--the exhaust smoke will choke you-but the part that kills has no ordor.
please get a co detector for your truck.

Yes, of course you're right... and I knew that. I just sometimes use the terms interchangeably when referring to exhaust. However, I SHOULD have said that I smell exhaust fumes in my truck at times.

Funny thing is, I can't find a leak, and so I'm not sure if it's just fumes trapped by an inversion layer over a major city I'm passing through. Especially since I DON'T actually smell it all the time.

Never thought about getting a CO detector! That's a great idea.

[Creek Jackson]

Headborg said:

small point here:
Co- carbon monoxide--is ordorless--that's why it kills you in your sleep.
yes--the exhaust smoke will choke you-but the part that kills has no ordor.
please get a co detector for your truck.

Yes, of course you're right... and I knew that. I just sometimes use the terms interchangeably when referring to exhaust. However, I SHOULD have said that I smell exhaust fumes in my truck at times.

Funny thing is, I can't find a leak, and so I'm not sure if it's just fumes trapped by an inversion layer over a major city I'm passing through. Especially since I DON'T actually smell it all the time.

Never thought about getting a CO detector! That's a great idea.

CO exposure can be very insidious. The text below is from the Georgia State Health Board.

""CO poisoning can be acute, occurring over minutes to a few hours, or it can consist of repeated exposures over brief periods. It can occur over many days, weeks, or months and involve relatively low CO concentrations in air. The health effects are obvious with acute, high level exposure, but may be misdiagnosed after long-term, lower level exposure.The most common symptoms after exposure to high levels of CO include headaches, vomiting, nausea, dizziness, and drowsiness. These symptoms have been referred to as CO Poisoning Syndrome and were thought to disappear quickly after exposure ceases.
However, recent studies indicate that these symptoms and many other serious and persistent health effects may continue, even after the CO source is removed. Serious and persistent health effects from CO exposure may include.
???? heart and brain damage
???? learning and memory impairments
???? emotional and personality effects
???? sensory and motor disorders"""

In other words, long term exposure to low-levels of CO is very dangerous to one's health.
If there is the slightest suspicion of CO exposure. Get it checked out!

[headborg]

Headborg said:

small point here:
Co- carbon monoxide--is ordorless--that's why it kills you in your sleep.
yes--the exhaust smoke will choke you-but the part that kills has no ordor.
please get a co detector for your truck.

Yes, of course you're right... and I knew that. I just sometimes use the terms interchangeably when referring to exhaust. However, I SHOULD have said that I smell exhaust fumes in my truck at times.

Funny thing is, I can't find a leak, and so I'm not sure if it's just fumes trapped by an inversion layer over a major city I'm passing through. Especially since I DON'T actually smell it all the time.

Never thought about getting a CO detector! That's a great idea.

if you smell exhaust while driving--you got the leak for sure--and you're getting CO with the exhaust....if you're parked--it might be the truck next to you or even the reefer exhaust from your reefer---they used to have
trucks with "grass burner" exhaust ---it was a real pain to park next to one of them.

Battery powered--smoke/CO combination detector-----Trucks also have been known to catch fire you're parked sleeping. These days, companies have become CHEAP---no Bunk escape hatch--only way out is over the fuel tanks.

[ToxicWaste]

Yeah you do got a good point. It causes drivers today are spoiled with LUXURIES. Hell I can go without ac and heat no problem at all, I don't need those two items. The past few cars my mom has owned had no ac so I'm use to it. I know riding without air ride is rough especially in the passenger seat when it's not air ride and I rode in a 69 Mack R Series and a early 80's Mack Superliner and I enjoyed the ride better than I did of a new Mack Vision. Drivers were much more fatigued at the end of the day back in the 50's-70's cause driving a truck back then was physical labor. Driving a truck today doesn't require much physical labor cause of power steering, range/splitter controls, and autoshifts. I know I'm young but if I could go back to them days of trucking I would in a heartbeat because those were the best times to be a driver for alot of reasons. Honestly Ben in my generation it's much worse cause kids today are very spoiled cause they get everything they want. When they start driving they will complain cause their truck doesn't have a radio or cause they can't plug their ipod in.

Leave the "I did's" and Can do's" @ the flying J driver's lounge for some other idiot to get a kick out of; and leave the driving to the professionals. A 69 R model over a mack vision??? Of course you know what you're talking about... They didn't have computers or the internet in the 50's either, why dont you start there.

I have to rant on this one.

It isn't CR Englands fault you had truck problems. You would have noticed this problem if you did a proper PTI. Your only job as a truck driver is to get freight from point A to point B on time. If you can't do that, yeah you should be fired.

As a truck driver you are the captain of your ship. Sometimes you have to be creative to keep moving. Find the leak and plug the hole. If you can't find the leak, crack the windows. You have a heater to keep warm.

I don't feel sorry for you. Sorry, just my opinion.

Please enlighten me on what he should "plug the hole" with??? If they could even touch the portion of the exhaust that was bad. Have you tried doing exhaust work on a hot truck...probably not. The hobo is the only one on here who knows what they're talking about. But I'll rely on the rest of you for entertainment next time I'm at the J :idea: The only thing I could ding the O.P for is working for CRE in the first place.