Laptop-GPS-mapping software advice....

[oldfatbaldguy]

Are these good tools to have? How do they help or hinder a driver?

[Skywalker]

There has been much discussion of these items.... some good, some not so good. Here are my views:

I have a laptop with MS Streets & Trips..same as tourists use, as well as PC Miler...which is "truck specific". I use both of them for routing. Each will generate a route that I can use...except that the MS S&T routes can sometimes require a little research. (I've been at this game for a while, so its not that often I have to run a route on the laptop...) The research would involve details like "truck restricted routes", "low clearances", and hazmat restrictions if my load is placarded. I get that information from the Motor Carriers Atlas.

The PC Miler program, being truck specific can be programmed to follow only certain types of routes, such as STAA only...which pretty much guarantees a safe and legal route.

I have never used a GPS for truck navigation. I'm "old-fashioned" in that I consider a GPS in a truck as a "distraction"....so if I am not familiar with the area...I will write the route down.

My gut feeling is that if you are new to this it would be in your best interest to learn it the "old fashioned" way, get to know the roads, then maybe later add the technology.

I have seen pictures of trucks where the driver was relying on and paying too much attention to a GPS....and drove under a bridge that was lower than the top of the trailer.... resulting in a really lousy end to a day.

I have given thought to buying one....but can't seem to motivate myself to do so. I guess I just haven't been able to justify the expense.

I am quite familiar with GPS's....as I am a bluewater sailor/boater. I own marine GPS's...and use them quite a bit, however....I am always mindful that when a GPS is turned on...the first thing it says is: This is an aid, not the gospel.....

Its a "caveat emptor" situation... 8)

[Uturn2001]

I never ran GPS. It was not until the last year I drove that I broke down and bought a laptop and installed MS Streets and Trips, which I rarely used and then when I did use it, it was usually only for a quick routing "advice" which I always doubled check against info in the MC Atlas.

Twice in a year I used it to find a customer, once it was dead on the second time it was off but it got me into the right area and I was fortunate enough to be able to see the facility.

My views on GPS are pretty much the same as Skywalker's. Also like Skywalker I too have seen plenty of stories where GPS, even when used in conjunction with a truck routing program, have led drivers under a low bridge or down a restricted road.

IMHO you would be better off with a laptop and basic routing program, a MC atlas, and a cell phone with enough anytime minutes that you can use to call customers if need be to get directions.

[TK THE TRUCKER]

I use MS Streets and trip. I like it because once you put a route in you can alter the route and see the mileage difference on each route that is available. I move the route around and choose the best one for me. Then, if there might be a issue with restricted routes and low bridges I just cross reference my chosen route with my motor carriers road atlas. 8) 8)

[terrylamar]

I, too, think new drivers should avoid every advantage there is out there, including these new fangled Motor Carrier Atlases. After all, Lewis and Clark made it all the way to the Pacific Ocean using West as a vague direction and maybe some lines sketched in the dirt. Are you no less of a man than they? Resign yourself to mediocrity. Why be efficient and make money, I think most of us have too much money anyway. In fact why don't we go back to the horse teams and wagons. Let's do it the old fashion way. At least, until the backpackers start calling us wusses

[Evinrude]

I, too, think new drivers should avoid every advantage there is out there, including these new fangled Motor Carrier Atlases. After all, Lewis and Clark made it all the way to the Pacific Ocean using West as a vague direction and maybe some lines sketched in the dirt. Are you no less of a man than they? Resign yourself to mediocrity. Why be efficient and make money, I think most of us have too much money anyway. In fact why don't we go back to the horse teams and wagons. Let's do it the old fashion way. At least, until the backpackers start calling us wusses

your right, we need more stuff to make our jobs easier, than we will get paid less,, train more drivers add new gadgets and help our CEO's make billions...

[terrylamar]

I, too, think new drivers should avoid every advantage there is out there, including these new fangled Motor Carrier Atlases. After all, Lewis and Clark made it all the way to the Pacific Ocean using West as a vague direction and maybe some lines sketched in the dirt. Are you no less of a man than they? Resign yourself to mediocrity. Why be efficient and make money, I think most of us have too much money anyway. In fact why don't we go back to the horse teams and wagons. Let's do it the old fashion way. At least, until the backpackers start calling us wusses

your right, we need more stuff to make our jobs easier, than we will get paid less,, train more drivers add new gadgets and help our CEO's make billions...

I don't know about you, but I get paid more because of technology and my willingness to use it. I don't see any problem helping my employer make more money. The more money he has the more jobs he creates, the better off everyone is. I know it is a tired cliche, but only rich people create jobs, not poor people.

[Uturn2001]

The real issue is not the use of technology but rather the reliance on it.

With the surge of use of routing software and now GPS I wonder how many relatively new drivers out there could not figure out how to cross the street if there technological advantages were to take a dump.

It just is not in trucking that the total reliance on technology has negative implications. In general life it does to.

100 years ago what percentage of the population knew how to grow a successful garden and then be able to preserve that food for use through out the year? Flash forward to today and what percentage are able to do the same?

While I do not have exact figures it would not surprise me if it was less than 15% today of what it was a century ago.

[terrylamar]

The real issue is not the use of technology but rather the reliance on it.

With the surge of use of routing software and now GPS I wonder how many relatively new drivers out there could not figure out how to cross the street if there technological advantages were to take a dump.

I have no doubt 99.99% percent of new drivers could make the transition. Why would anyone restrict themselves to lines drawn in the dirt when there are satellites flying overhead?

Speaking as a new driver, only eight months in my truck, you all should use GPS. I said use not rely upon it 100% To do any less is just handicapping yourself needlessly.

[Uturn2001]

If you do not ever learn how to quickly and accurately route a trip using a map then you are relying on modern technology.

[terrylamar]

If you do not ever learn how to quickly and accurately route a trip using a map then you are relying on modern technology.

A current edition on a Motor Carriers Atlas is modern technology. GPS technology, really is all that cutting edge. I do agree, you need to be able to use your atlas. Then five minutes later, when you have it down, move on.

[Skywalker]

Terry, I think you are missing the point. While technological advances are good...there is more to doing this job than following a GPS route. There is far more to learn than how to operate that GPS. Some people have a much higher "uptake" ability than others....you may be one of those people. On the other hand.... I believe that in a face to face conversation I could suggest several points of origin with points of final delivery that your GPS would give you a fairly decent route.....yet I could show you where the route could and more than likely would turn out bad and possibly disastrous.

GPS is little more than an "adjunct tool", nothing more, nothing less. As a marine navigator... I was first trained in what is known as "dead reckoning" and the proper use of charts, and a compass. I have two GPS's with full navigational charts built in....yet I still have my charts readily at hand and constantly keep track of my position with the charts.

Too many people, even boaters place far too much emphasis on the charts in GPS's....then wonder why they run aground or damage their boats on underwater obstructions. The same is true when it comes to trucks. There are obstructions, and there are impediments to travel via truck.....and unless you have a GPS with a full blown program built specifically for trucks..... the user will find themself in trouble.

Frankly.... I would give you odds, that were you and I to leave point a going to point b.... I would probably arrive ahead of you. Why? Because I have taken the time to learn the routes, the geography, along with the terrain involved....and know not only which is the fastest but also the shortest and quickest route from point a to b.

To place too much reliance on "artificial intelligence" is way to chancy. Plus, to date many of the computerized databases are incomplete and even misleading....

A GPS will not make you more efficient or profitable..... Unless you have the knowledge base to second guess and over-rule it and take the better route despite what it says.

You have to learn to walk before you run....why not learn to do it manually before trusting a computerized device that can lead you to your death or serious injury.....and an accident that can end a career?

[terrylamar]

Once again those that condemn GPS fail to understand that I understand it is a tool and no better than the person that uses it. I assure you I do not rely soley on GPS. I use my Atlas. I still maintain GPS with Atlas is far superior than just Atlas or just GPS. Too many people think it is an either/or propistion. It is not. New drivers should use GPS along with their Atlas and qualcomm and CB and telephone.........

[Skywalker]

Once again those that condemn GPS fail to understand that I understand it is a tool and no better than the person that uses it. I assure you I do not rely soley on GPS. I use my Atlas. I still maintain GPS with Atlas is far superior than just Atlas or just GPS. Too many people think it is an either/or propistion. It is not. New drivers should use GPS along with their Atlas and qualcomm and CB and telephone.........

No Terry.... I get your point, but the problem remains that many who enter this industry.....may not see the points either of us are trying to make.

The only thing a GPS can do is suggest a route....just like my laptop. Beyond that the only other thing it can do is tell you where it thinks you are. But my laptop can do that as well...if I buy and plug in the GPS antenna.

I am not "condemning" GPS.... I am merely pointing out that it is a tool, and it is not foolproof.....and that being the case, it has to be used cautiously, which many have failed to do...based on news reports and pictures.

New drivers...really should be prepared to use an atlas and figure their own routes...before relying on a GPS....

Ask yourself this question: What will people who rely too heavily on a GPS do if it fails....or the DOD decides to go back to invoking SA?

[terrylamar]

Once again those that condemn GPS fail to understand that I understand it is a tool and no better than the person that uses it. I assure you I do not rely soley on GPS. I use my Atlas. I still maintain GPS with Atlas is far superior than just Atlas or just GPS. Too many people think it is an either/or propistion. It is not. New drivers should use GPS along with their Atlas and qualcomm and CB and telephone.........

No Terry.... I get your point, but the problem remains that many who enter this industry.....may not see the points either of us are trying to make.

The only thing a GPS can do is suggest a route....just like my laptop. Beyond that the only other thing it can do is tell you where it thinks you are. But my laptop can do that as well...if I buy and plug in the GPS antenna.

I am not "condemning" GPS.... I am merely pointing out that it is a tool, and it is not foolproof.....and that being the case, it has to be used cautiously, which many have failed to do...based on news reports and pictures.

New drivers...really should be prepared to use an atlas and figure their own routes...before relying on a GPS....

Ask yourself this question: What will people who rely too heavily on a GPS do if it fails....or the DOD decides to go back to invoking SA?

And when the nukes fall we won't be able to use our trucks, something I'll worry about when it happens. In the meantime, I'll be trucking along with my GPS mounted prominetly on my dash.

[Uturn2001]

A current edition on a Motor Carriers Atlas is modern technology.

Nope. A map is ancient technology. The earliest known maps date back to approximately 2300 BC. This would mean maps have been around for at least 4300 years or so. Possibly longer since the Babylonian maps are simply the oldest known maps.

A MCA is simply a more advanced version of this ancient art form.

No one has or is saying that using GPS is wrong. The only thing we are saying is that one should be able to navigate without it.

If a newbie jumps in a truck and from day 1 uses GPS and/or computerized routing software they have placed themselves at a distinct advantage. They need to learn how to make use of more "traditional" ways of doing it first and become proficient at it before moving on to the more modern options available.

This is analogous to children who are learning math. If they are given calculators from the first class they will only know how to punch in numbers and receive the results. They will never learn the relationships between those numbers and how to compute totals without a mechanical aid. Have you ever paid for a purchase. The total comes to lets say $12.52 and you hand the clerk a $20 bill and after she punches $20 into the register you give her 2 cents and she is clueless on how much change you have coming. This is do to becoming totally reliant on current technology.

[Skywalker]

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: KEWL!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: When the nukes fall, and your GPS dies for lack of signal....I'll still be able to navigate with my Atlas and Niatpac Lavrem secret decoder ring... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Malaki86]

Well heck - if you wanna look at things as far as technology goes:

My company started in 1903. How good were maps for driving then? Sure, there were maps, but just how accurate could they be? Myself, I picture something like an old farmer would draw, with "points" being something like "Where Farmer Ted's barn used to be". Should we go back to that?

What about the trucks themselves? My company started with a 4-horse team and a wagon. The first truck was about 15hp, open cab, wooden wheels. Should we go back to that?

There was no DOT to worry about then. If you had a load, you got it there no matter what. Who cares if you had to drive for 4 days straight with no sleep. Should we go back to that?

I believe in technology. I have a laptop running in my truck that does my banking (Quicken), entertainment (games and movies), logs (Drivers Daily Log), routing (Streets & Trips and CoPilot). Should I go back to using a handwritten bank register? Nothing but books? Manually doing my logs?

I'm not saying you should rely 100% on it though. Yes, you DO need to know how to do things manually, if for nothing else but having a true understanding of how it works in case something goes wrong.

Just like my stand on auto-shift trucks - you NEED to know how to do things manually first. You never know when you'll need it.

Yes - I can do everything manually. I can route a trip anywhere in the country with the MCRA. I can fill out a log book. Etc Etc Etc.

Just stop being afraid of technology.

[Skywalker]

Malakai.... Thank You!! for reinforcing my points.

I'm not the least afraid of technology....I use it everyday, and I do look forward to further advances that will make life better.

I do use GPS...just not as a driver. I said earlier that I have toyed with the idea of adding the GPS sensor to my laptop.... But frankly... I just haven't been able to justify the expenditure. I guess I have a pretty good feel for where I am all the time.

Here's an example of what I can justify: A forward looking sonar that has a 12 degree cone doing a 90 degree horizontal sweep in front of a boat as well as doing a vertical sweep... I can justify this because its a sonar with a phased array that will show me where the channel actually is and where the shoaling is in that channel, and any other dangerous obstructions. It can prevent some serious damage to underwater running gear. Not to mention prevent a hard grounding in a marked channel that is not as deep as the charts say it is. I also own full blown "electronic charts" for the US coastline from Maine to Brownsville, TX and south to the Bay of Campeche. They are GPS capable, and can also drive my autopilot. So, as you can see... I am not "afraid of technology".

I have absolutely zero problems with technology....as long as its use is justifiable and only used as a "tool". The problem comes in when people "literally subordinate their brains to the whim of a device".

Now when it comes to the MCA....you still have to be careful. And thats because it is a man-made item....and its not perfect either.

Experience is the greatest teacher, always has been, and always will be.

[Malaki86]

Malakai.... Thank You!! for reinforcing my points.

I'm not the least afraid of technology....I use it everyday, and I do look forward to further advances that will make life better.

I do use GPS...just not as a driver. I said earlier that I have toyed with the idea of adding the GPS sensor to my laptop.... But frankly... I just haven't been able to justify the expenditure. I guess I have a pretty good feel for where I am all the time.

Here's an example of what I can justify: A forward looking sonar that has a 12 degree cone doing a 90 degree horizontal sweep in front of a boat as well as doing a vertical sweep... I can justify this because its a sonar with a phased array that will show me where the channel actually is and where the shoaling is in that channel, and any other dangerous obstructions. It can prevent some serious damage to underwater running gear. Not to mention prevent a hard grounding in a marked channel that is not as deep as the charts say it is. I also own full blown "electronic charts" for the US coastline from Maine to Brownsville, TX and south to the Bay of Campeche. They are GPS capable, and can also drive my autopilot. So, as you can see... I am not "afraid of technology".

I have absolutely zero problems with technology....as long as its use is justifiable and only used as a "tool". The problem comes in when people "literally subordinate their brains to the whim of a device".

Now when it comes to the MCA....you still have to be careful. And thats because it is a man-made item....and its not perfect either.

Experience is the greatest teacher, always has been, and always will be.

One really big advantage I see with the GPS routing vs using the MCRA alone is this: map detail.

I run into and out of WV on a daily basis. On the MCRA some of the highways look a little curvey, so you'd think they're not too bad. However, when seeing the true detail on the GPS, you see what it actually looks like. A perfect example of this would be US33 between Elkins, WV and Harrisonburg, VA. The MCRA shows that there are turns in the road, but it doesn't look too bad. It's completely different on the GPS. At the WV-VA border the road literally looks like a heart-monitor hooked to an overweight, over-exerted person trying to carry a piano up 4 flights of stairs. There are probably 20 hairpin turns within a 5 mile stretch.

Even if you don't use it as a GPS, using a program like Streets & Trips just for the mapping/routing is a great tool and can save you a number of headaches.

Like I stated - I use CoPilot. This program is written for trucks and uses the exact same maps as ALK's PCMiler. You still can't trust it. I've had it try to send me on the parkways on Long Island, under 9' bridges, across bridges with a 5 ton limit, etc.

Use it as a tool - not as "gospel".