Out of fuel

[trux]

I ran the truck out of fuel in Milwaukee a couple of weeks ago. I was 5 miles from my fuel stop. A few minutes earlier I had checked and had 20 gallons and needed 8 gallons to get there. Obviously the tanks won't draw down below a certain level. (Admittedly bad judgement)

My question is: How serious is this? Are they likely to fire me?

There's more to this that might indicate something's going on:

1) Friday evening (Sept 14): I got a preplan from the nightcrew for a run that couldn't be done legally and I countered with a legal time frame and they accepted.

2) Saturday (Sept 15): ran the truck out of fuel.

3) Wednesday (Sept 19): Found out the nightcrew wrote me up for "accepting runs I couldn't do", and I was told I'm going back on the board of a previous dispatcher because of these "mistakes".

4) Yesterday (Sept 26): In the past, after scheduled days off, they always had me start at 0700 or 0800 in the morning after the final day off. Now things have changed. I'm informed I only get 96 hours and to show up at or before 1700 today (Sept 27)

The real kicker here is that the dispatcher tells me that if I show up at 1700 today, chances are there won't be any freight so I'd be better off to show up 8 or 10 hours earlier. (This is probably why they previously always had me show up at 0700 or 0800)

On top of this when I try to discuss the refused illegal run, the dispatcher claims he doesn't know anything about it. (Even though he as mentioned it before)
When I ask why I'm back with him he claims he doesn't know.
When I ask why the changed time frame for returning to work, he claims the rules have always been what they are, and he acts surprised that I'm even asking about it.

I think the entire situation is odd. If they're getting ready to fire me I've got time right now to clean the truck out before turning it in.

Or is this all just normal trucking BS?

TIA

[Blind Driver]

It's difficult, if not impossile, to understand what's going on behind the scenes. The dispatchers will always protect their own butt before yours.
Running the truck out of fuel and delivering late repeatly normally gets you written up.

Probably just typical trucking BS. If you've ever considered greener pastures, might be the time to start checking things out. Always have an app in with other companies "just in case".

[fireman932003]

I would go over their heads and talk with the person in charge of them. I would ask those same questions to them with all of your proof that you sent in a better time frame to legally run the trip and they accepted it. That is just what I would do.

[Rockee]

I wouldnt sweat the fuel thing too much trux, although I'm sure your the only one here that has ever ran out of fuel, they will probably not make that big of a deal about it, at least I would no consider that something to be fired for. As for the other, if you have Qualcom to back you up, go to safety and bring them into it, someone wrote you up so there is someone there that knows that part of the story. Anyway I would not sweat this stuff too much, let it be their problem but keep your options open

[ben45750]

I would go over their heads and talk with the person in charge of them. I would ask those same questions to them with all of your proof that you sent in a better time frame to legally run the trip and they accepted it. That is just what I would do.

yep, thats what I say. Keep going over their head if you don't get an answer. You should not have been given a writeup for accepting an illegal load when you replied with your legal times.

[Sealord]

It's my experience that a hundred gallon tank will have a ninety-five gallon draw, keeps crud out of the fuel system. Do you check your fuel level with a calibrated stick as opposed to relying on the gauge(s)? Is someone siphoning fuel from your tanks when you're stopped? BOL

[kc0iv]

I ran the truck out of fuel in Milwaukee a couple of weeks ago. I was 5 miles from my fuel stop. A few minutes earlier I had checked and had 20 gallons and needed 8 gallons to get there. Obviously the tanks won't draw down below a certain level. (Admittedly bad judgement)

I hope you have a reason for allowing your tanks to get to this low of level. Allowing your tanks to even get to a level of 20 gallons in my opinion is cutting way to close.

My question is: How serious is this? Are they likely to fire me?

I can't see any reason for you to get fired for this reason alone. Now if it has happened before that might be a reason, but for one time I don't see it happening.

There's more to this that might indicate something's going on:

1) Friday evening (Sept 14): I got a preplan from the nightcrew for a run that couldn't be done legally and I countered with a legal time frame and they accepted.

2) Saturday (Sept 15): ran the truck out of fuel.

3) Wednesday (Sept 19): Found out the nightcrew wrote me up for "accepting runs I couldn't do", and I was told I'm going back on the board of a previous dispatcher because of these "mistakes".

If you sent this through Qcom and the replied by Qcom approving the NEW time that can be easy to proven. All these exchanges are recorded.

The question I have is - Did you mean "accepting runs I couldn't do" or "accepting run I couldn't do"? If they wrote you up for it being a one time event of which you have proof (see above) I would think this would go no where. On the other-hand if this has happened other time(s) it very well could show a bad habit on your part.

As to being on another board. I guess I don't see problem. Who is doing the dispatching never was a problem with me. I simply got the dispatch and went with it. I suspect this is some kind of a training board and you don't like being "associated" with that status. If I am right then I suggest you suck-it-in and do your job. The best way to get what you want is do a better job than the other drivers and I can assure you people will notice you. Just like the military there are two ways to get noticed. 1) Screw-up 2) Do a better job than the other guy.

4) Yesterday (Sept 26): In the past, after scheduled days off, they always had me start at 0700 or 0800 in the morning after the final day off. Now things have changed. I'm informed I only get 96 hours and to show up at or before 1700 today (Sept 27)

The real kicker here is that the dispatcher tells me that if I show up at 1700 today, chances are there won't be any freight so I'd be better off to show up 8 or 10 hours earlier. (This is probably why they previously always had me show up at 0700 or 0800)

On top of this when I try to discuss the refused illegal run, the dispatcher claims he doesn't know anything about it. (Even though he as mentioned it before)
When I ask why I'm back with him he claims he doesn't know.
When I ask why the changed time frame for returning to work, he claims the rules have always been what they are, and he acts surprised that I'm even asking about it.

It really doesn't matter if in the past you reported for work at 0700, 0800 or any other time. If you are now being told to report at 1700 then this is your reporting time. I really don't see a problem.

As to why this new dispatcher knows or doesn't know really has no bearing. You are now reporting to him now and as such his rules are what is to be followed. Assuming these rules are legal.

I think the entire situation is odd. If they're getting ready to fire me I've got time right now to clean the truck out before turning it in.

Or is this all just normal trucking BS?

Kind of reading between the lines you have a problem dealing with dispatcher(s) and maybe some time management along with when to fuel. When it comes to dispatcher you have to roll with the punches. Each dispatcher runs his/her board slightly different. Some want more control than others. The best suggestion I could make is talk to the dispatcher and find out how he/she wants to run his/her board. Then attempted to do what he/she wants. If you can't do what he/she wants then express your concern(s). If what he/she wants you to do is legal then do it. If it is illegal then say so. It is up to you to be sure YOU run legal.

Is it normal trucking BS? To some extent maybe yes. Each company and each dispatcher see trucking slightly different. In addition very few drivers have been on the other side of the fence and don't really know just what is involved in the total picture of how trucking really works. Just like very few dispatchers understand what the driver(s) go through.

Let me say in closing. The best thing you can do is communicate between yourself and your dispatcher.

kc0iv

[roadranger]

My experience (don't ask!) has been that you will "run out" with 2 inches left in the tanks. I now never let it get below 4 inches. Rough rule of thumb is one inch per hour - and yes, I know the gallons per inch varies at different depths. Anyways at 4 inches I have about 10 gallons in each tank. Today I was 2 1/2 hours out with 5.5 inches left so I had to put 20 gallons on a credit card - should be about 5 inches left. We are mostly shorthaul and have a fuel account at only one, local station. I was on a two day run and ended up going the long way to stay out of the Armpit State (NJ) and came up a bit short on fuel.
:sad:

[Mackman]

one company i worked for had about 12 tri axle dumps if you run out of fuel and your fuel gague worked you were fired. But we had visa cards for fuel so we could fuel anywhere we wanted. Really no reason to run out.

[freebird]

"____inch's of fuel left in tank"
Have they started taking fuel gauges out of trucks???? :?

[dcedlr]

"____inch's of fuel left in tank"
Have they started taking fuel gauges out of trucks???? :?

Now that was funny! Perhaps they are old timers that do not believe in all this new fangled technology stuff.

[Orangetxguy]

The fuel (fool) gauge is mechanical, and like most mechanical items, subject to failure.

Best method for knowing when to fuel..is to figure your fuel consumption.

If you know that your truck averages 5.2 miles per gallon, then you should know to buy fuel, (if you have 200 gallons of capacity), and you started your trip with full tanks, (some people do not know to open the cap and look during a pretrip), after you have travelled 900 miles..that gives you a 20 gallon cushion...to get you to a TS.

Last night when I fueled, I put 231 gallons in my tanks. I have 2- 120 gallon tanks. :shock: Closest I have been to running out of fuel in....18 years.
Last time I ran out of fuel.... 18 years ago ..I was driving a "California" truck, which had one 80 gallon tank...where as our regular trucks, in WA state, had 110 gallon tanks. I ran out of fuel right at the bottom of the exit ramp to Harbor Island, off the West Seattle Bridge (1 mile from the terminal)...managed to coast far enough to get out of the way of traffic!!! And I did start out with that tank full...just forgot to take into account, that I was 30 gallons short !!!

[greg3564]

"____inch's of fuel left in tank"
Have they started taking fuel gauges out of trucks???? :?

Now that was funny! Perhaps they are old timers that do not believe in all this new fangled technology stuff.

Me, I don't go below 1/4. I rarely go below 1/2 for that matter.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

running out of fuel is like forgetting to put your clothes on b4 leaving the house or truck., However most big companies consider it a chargeable incident ,and also put it on your DAC...OUCH .

[roadranger]

"____inch's of fuel left in tank"
Have they started taking fuel gauges out of trucks???? :?

Gauge isn't really accurate when you get down below 1/8 tanks - plus many older trucks have bad gauges. Also - I used to fool around with airplanes and there you NEVER trust the fuel gauges, and you usually don't fill the tanks up more than what you need plus and hour or two for reserve. Anyways I usually fill up when down to 40-50 gallons.
8)

[Skywalker]

I'm driving a 2007 International.... the fuel guage "sucks". I have twin 98 gallon tanks....meaning a "usable 186 gallons"....hahahahhahhhaa!

When the guage is reading 1/4th....It takes on 135 gallons. At 1/2 about 70.

So because the flippin' guage is so lousy... I fuel based on miles traveled, or when I get a wild hair....and depending on where I am going. I do preplan my trips, to include fuel stops and where to stop for the night.

Fuel guages in trucks are "notorious" for being unreliable, and in the event that you make the mistake of trusting one....

In the winter....I do not let my tankes get below 1/2. Why? Because if I encounter a winter shutdown.... I'm not going to freeze to death in a truck.

[kc0iv]

"____inch's of fuel left in tank"
Have they started taking fuel gauges out of trucks???? :?

Gauge isn't really accurate when you get down below 1/8 tanks - plus many older trucks have bad gauges. Also - I used to fool around with airplanes and there you NEVER trust the fuel gauges, and you usually don't fill the tanks up more than what you need plus and hour or two for reserve. Anyways I usually fill up when down to 40-50 gallons.
8)

I don't know who trained you when it comes to flying. I was trained to always put all the fuel on board the aircraft tanks could hold and still be legal as far as weight and balance.

The reserve had to do with what was the legal amount you had to have while flying IFR which requires 45 minutes upon landing. See: FAR 91.167.

VFR is different. FAR 91.151 says "says that no pilot can begin a flight unless consideration of wind and weather will allow the flight to reach the planned destination with enough fuel to cruise for 30 minutes at a normal power setting, or 45 minutes at night." However, running out of gas is NOT against the rules. There is a catch all rule FAR 91.13 which bans all "careless or reckless operation."

Where I was trained there is an old saying -- The runway behind you -- The altitude above you -- The fuel you have burned. None of these help you if you have a problem.

I would agree never trust the gauges in an airplane, or any other type of fuel gauge.

I've been flying for almost 35 years.

kc0iv

[roadranger]

I don't know who trained you when it comes to flying. I was trained to always put all the fuel on board the aircraft tanks could hold and still be legal as far as weight and balance.

On a hot, humid day at 1000 ASL the 172 would have problems getting off full of fuel with just two onboard and the 152, forget about it! Now, a friend of mine put the "big engine" in his 172 when it needed an overhaul and that SOB would rocket off the ground! Also rode in a 152 that had the 172 motor put in, same deal! Stock engines were pretty pitiful on these Cessnas.
:shock:

[One]

When you run out, try to come to a stop on uneven ground so the fuel flows from the secondary tank to the primary that has the pick-up. Likewise dont park leaning the other way when you are low...

[kc0iv]

I don't know who trained you when it comes to flying. I was trained to always put all the fuel on board the aircraft tanks could hold and still be legal as far as weight and balance.

On a hot, humid day at 1000 ASL the 172 would have problems getting off full of fuel with just two onboard and the 152, forget about it! Now, a friend of mine put the "big engine" in his 172 when it needed an overhaul and that SOB would rocket off the ground! Also rode in a 152 that had the 172 motor put in, same deal! Stock engines were pretty pitiful on these Cessnas.
:shock:

It's been a long time since I flew a 152 but I don't recall having a problem with getting off the ground and where I fly out of is 850 ASL. Never flew a 172. Now the 120 didn't like much of a load.

I moved up to a Piper Cherokee 180. Also fly a Comanche 250. I also once in a while fly a Cherokee 140.

If you want one that will get off the ground try a Grumman Traveller with a 0-320-E2G up graded to 160 HP.

kc0iv