Backing question

[NHHunter]

I got a couple backing questions I am 4 weeks in my 12 CDL-A course. I can back straight w/o any problem but when I try to do my offset, or try to parallel park, my biggest issue is establishing the right angle of approach. I find myself fighting to do the maneuver correctly because of my inability to figure out my angles. If i get the angle right, I get in no problem. Do you understand what I am trying to say? I hope so, because I need help with it.

[Fredog]

I got a couple backing questions I am 4 weeks in my 12 CDL-A course. I can back straight w/o any problem but when I try to do my offset, or try to parallel park, my biggest issue is establishing the right angle of approach. I find myself fighting to do the maneuver correctly because of my inability to figure out my angles. If i get the angle right, I get in no problem. Do you understand what I am trying to say? I hope so, because I need help with it.

it's like riding a bike, you just have to keep trying until you figure it out, and then it will come naturally.

[countryhorseman]

I could show you how to set up properly everytime, but it would be impossible to explain it! and I am not artistic enough to draw out the sketches.

Setting up for backing is much like playing pool, like you said it is all about angles. Try and visualize what the truck/trailer are doing from the top, and not the side. Also, try to make the smallest corrections possible! I see so many drivers cranking the wheel lock-to-lock when backing, and then wonder why they have to pull out and start over. Never, never be afraid of getting out, walking around the truck and checking and analyzing your position. I for one would much rather a driver do that, than take the hood off my truck.

Suggestion, while at the truck stops, walk around a bit and watch other drivers, when you see someone that does it well, ask them if they could explain their method. Despite what some may say, there are still experienced drivers out here, that will help if someone is willing to listen.

You may try and look out for Stevens Transport drivers with truck numbers that start with 7 (i.e. 7393 etc), those are the Alliance Fleet, and typically have more experience then the others. Many of the Alliance Fleet drivers are also trainers.

Good Luck

[aztrucker]

Yeah...

[Bonkers]

Setting reference points is an absolute must. What I did was watch the others/instructors do it correctly and set markers based on the tractor.

Another thing to try is the speed in which you throw the steering wheel around - the faster you go the easier it is to outpace your mistakes. Course the trouble there is your arms will be hurting at the end of the day.

On the offset - crank the wheel before you start moving. When you do start moving the MOMENT you see the trailer begin its track straighten out - it'll almost be an immediate correction. Worse case here is that you'll be too shallow but that's far better than being too deep. Then just idle towards the inside cone (the space will not change so don't worry about the outside cone - theory is if you're an inch within the inside cone you're guarenteed to have a foot on the outside.) Don't ignore the outside - my instructor caught wind of my technique and moved the cones during the training to keep me on my toes.

By cranking hard at the begining you take away a variable. The first time if you hold it for three seconds and you come out shallow the next time you can hold it for four ect.. ect... ect... Eventually you'll feel your truck in.

My state allows two corrections which I think is standard. Don't be afraid to use them - better to point-out on three pull-ups and finish then to hit a cone or line and fail. 100% and 80% on the test means the exact same thing to an employeer and the state so play it smart.

[countryhorseman]

Yeah...Don't only look for Steven's drivers in the truck stops...also watch for them going down mountains. They run 25 mph down all mountains. A friend of mine who worked for Ritchey hauling mail ran into one and was killed, on a very small mountain grade North of Phoenix. The speed limit for trucks on that grade is 65 mph, stevens was going 30mph. Thats just one situation..from what the Arizona state police have told me, they are notorious for this...BEWARE! They are being investigated...Good luck on your backing it will come, be patient and practice..

There is no investigation of Stevens regarding going down mountians. You can go down a hill correctly a million times, your only going to go down it wrong once.

If someone runs into the back of any truck, reguardless of the speed, it is that persons fault! I have been a couple of mountains in Arizona posted 65mph, this is for cars, not trucks.

On top of that, it is up to the individual driver, too determine what is safe and what is not, what is that individual comfortable with. I cannot count how many times I have gone down cabbage, at the speed posted on the signs at the top of the hill, only to be passed by the yahoo cowboys doing 10-15 over the car speed limit, only to find them at the bottom of the hill with their brakes on fire. Too many drivers tend to rely on those jake brakes to get them down a hill. Problem is, jakes are electronic, and electonics tend to fail at the most inoputune times. Not to mention a snapped drive shaft, rear end or transmission, Jakes do no good then.

Stevens, as well as several other companies advise and train their drivers based on standards published many years ago, as to what is safe for steep grades. These standards are posted in the National Mountains guides and a few other publications.

Someone runs into the back of me, because I am doing the appropriate safe limit for the road, grade, condition of equipment and weather conditions, they better pray they have lots of insurance. Whether I live through it or not, my family will not ever have to worry about money again. They law is on the side of the safe driver, not the yahoo cowboys.

As far as investigations, there are many cases in the courts now where irresponsible people have run into 4-wheelers that did not feel the posted limit was safe, so it is not just other trucks that we need to be concerned with on the steep grades.

[countryhorseman]

Yeah...Don't only look for Steven's drivers in the truck stops...also watch for them going down mountains. They run 25 mph down all mountains. A friend of mine who worked for Ritchey hauling mail ran into one and was killed, on a very small mountain grade North of Phoenix. The speed limit for trucks on that grade is 65 mph, stevens was going 30mph. Thats just one situation..from what the Arizona state police have told me, they are notorious for this...BEWARE! They are being investigated...Good luck on your backing it will come, be patient and practice..

Oh, please post the month and year your friend was killed or not, by running into the Stevens truck, also the location would be nice. Although I have not worked for Stevens in a few years, I still speak with poeple in the company that I made friends with on a regular basis, especially in the Safety Dept., and have not heard of any such case.

Also a Google search has not brought up any such incident in Arizonia.

Thank You

[aztrucker]

The speed limit is 65 for trucks.
They are being investigated.
This happened approx 1 1/2 years ago.
Happened just south of sunset point on I-17 SB
He was traveling at an unsafe speed, he should have pulled off the road, or been driving on the shoulder.
99% of the trucks run 60-65 down this grade.
You sound like a real know it all, who likes to dipute things you know nothing about..typical for this industry.
Any driver out there who runs the mountains would agree with me....Stevens are notorious for this...

[countryhorseman]

The speed limit is 65 for trucks.
They are being investigated.
This happened approx 1 1/2 years ago.
Happened just south of sunset point on I-17 SB
He was traveling at an unsafe speed, he should have pulled off the road, or been driving on the shoulder.
99% of the trucks run 60-65 down this grade.
You sound like a real know it all, who likes to dipute things you know nothing about..typical for this industry.
Any driver out there who runs the mountains would agree with me....Stevens are notorious for this...

No my friend, I do not know it all, but I am well versed in this industry, especially when it comes to safe operating practices of CMV's. Yes, Stevens is notorious for their trucks doing things safely. Their safety record will vouch for that.

Posted Speed limits - are maximum speeds allowed by law, not the speed everyone must travel. The correct speed is the speed at which conditions allow for safe operation of a vehicle. A driver from Kansas is not going to be comfortable going down a 6% grade as a driver from Oregon, and the law does not expect that driver from Kansas to risk his life, or at least the perception thereof, in any circumstance. If the Stevens driver was travelling at the speed that was comfortable to him, and within the guidelines published by his company and the recognized standard for grades, had his flashers on, then your friend was at fault 100%. Especially if the said grade was a 2 or 3 lane road. Which the stretch of road you have noted is a 2 lane. It is also a variable 5 - 6% grade, I cannot remember the length at this time. Drivers that have never run a particular grade, or any other unknown grade, HAVE all rights to go down it at a speed that they find safe for their conditions, load weight, weather condition, and equipment condition. Heck, I was on I17NB last Tuesday, and was nearly run over some idiot, running 79,800# on a 6% uphill grade, and the nine other trucks in front of me were doing 35mph, in a posted 65mph, all had their flashers on. Just because this moron was empty and able to run 80 up that grade, Does that mean myself and the other 9 trucks should just pull of the road and let him be stupid. NOT, I do not think so, and I would love for you to push that point in a court of Law.

Speed Limits are maximums allowed, NOt the definitive absolute. Read your regs, I believe it is in there. But again, I am trying to make since to the guy that posted he can get drugs users, DWI's and guys with felony convictions jobs in Arizona.

Do what is SAFE, not Stupid!
Have a nice day!

[Rockee]

Having not been there for years I cant remember. How long is the grade, how steep is it. Just because 99% of the trucks do 60 - 65 there, is it safe for them to do so? Not debating here just curious.

[countryhorseman]

Having not been there for years I cant remember. How long is the grade, how steep is it. Just because 99% of the trucks do 60 - 65 there, is it safe for them to do so? Not debating here just curious.

If I remember correctly, Sunset Point is about the 253 mm, here is a quote of the grade from that point south into Black Canyon City. Here is the source link: http://www.dondepublishing.com/arizonaareas/area10.htm

At milepost 253 there is a sign for southbound traffic—"Trucks—vehicles pulling trailers check brakes and equipment—use rest area." After coming out of the rest area there are signs stating—"winding road" and "6% grade next 5 miles."

At milepost 251 the 6% grade begins with 60 mph curves. After 2½ miles the grade eases for ½ mile and then goes back to 6% for 2 miles. It eases again for about ¾ mile and then is 4-5% for another mile or so to the exit for Black Canyon City.

[aztrucker]

Going 30 mph down a mountain is NOT SAFE YOU MORON! especially with a 65 mph speed limit..... And for the other guy, it's 5% for about 6 miles.
And for Mr. safe driver....please dont argue with me...thats not what I want to do..Ritchies truck is still in the yard..go check it out..it's in the Deming yard. Please dont reply back, pony man...I hate guys like you..I'm trying to help guys who need a break..unlike your little life's virgin azz. Go talk to your JB and Wallyworld but buddies...dont talk to me.

[countryhorseman]

Going 30 mph down a mountain is NOT SAFE YOU MORON! especially with a 65 mph speed limit..... And for the other guy, it's 5% for about 6 miles.
And for Mr. safe driver....please dont argue with me...thats not what I want to do..Ritchies truck is still in the yard..go check it out..it's in the Deming yard. Please dont reply back, pony man...I hate guys like you..I'm trying to help guys who need a break..unlike your little life's virgin azz. Go talk to your JB and Wallyworld but buddies...dont talk to me.

It does not matter what the Ritchey truck looks like, their driver made a mistake! National standard for a 6% grade over 2 miles and a 75,000 - 80,000 pound truck is 18 miles per hour. There are several hills in various parts of the west posted as such. Just because Arizona has decided not to pass safe downgrade speeds for trucks, does not mean do it because you can. The training position of the drivers at Stevens has withstood many court cases and investigations by the FMCSA, so I doubt they will change it. Again, their safety record will vouch for that.

If that case should ever go to trial, Ritchie will be paying allot of money to Stevens. Just because you can, does not mean you should. See you in the ditch my friend.

And as far as your name calling and misconception of my knowledge of the industry, you are way off base. It is because of drivers like you, that the government keeps shoving more crap at the trucking industry to slow us down and limit our hours. Good luck!

[Fredog]

Going 30 mph down a mountain is NOT SAFE YOU MORON! especially with a 65 mph speed limit..... And for the other guy, it's 5% for about 6 miles.
And for Mr. safe driver....please dont argue with me...thats not what I want to do..Ritchies truck is still in the yard..go check it out..it's in the Deming yard. Please dont reply back, pony man...I hate guys like you..I'm trying to help guys who need a break..unlike your little life's virgin azz. Go talk to your JB and Wallyworld but buddies...dont talk to me.

you are the kind of moron who ends up killing some innocent person or family. please stop holding a truck steering wheel and find another job.
5% for 6 miles at 80,000 pounds. at 60 mph. yea, right. that's safe. and you call someone ELSE a moron?

perhaps if the guy flying down the hill had been paying attention, he would have noticed a truck going slow down the hill. oh that's right, it's always someone elses fault isnt it? has he filed his lawsuit yet? we cant let those stupid truck drivers get away with tying to be safe now can we?

[aztrucker]

most everyone runs 60-65 down this mountain..believe me its legal and safe..call az dot and ask them what the speed limit is..I dont go by your silly calculations, I drive the way I feel is safe. Any local Phoenix driver will tell you the same thing 60-65 all day long...if it's so unsafe, then why is it legal..

[countryhorseman]

most everyone runs 60-65 down this mountain..believe me its legal and safe..call az dot and ask them what the speed limit is..I dont go by your silly calculations, I drive the way I feel is safe. Any local Phoenix driver will tell you the same thing 60-65 all day long...if it's so unsafe, then why is it legal..

Arizona DOT wil tell someone to drive at speed that is safe for conditions, equipment, load and traffic. They will not tell a driver of a CMV, oh hell, the speed limit is XX, go for it, we have plenty of emergency personel to clean up the mess. Obviously what you feel is safe, if beyond any other responsible and safe drivers comprehension. The Arizona DOT will very easily ticket a driver that is going to fast down that or any hill, especially after the brakes start smoking because they were going to darn fast.

Just because you think it is safe, does not by any means make it safe! Common sense should prevail in all situations, not stupidity.

Please tell me you have not ever trained another driver in your ways. Good luck hand, and we will pray for your safety and those around you! I also hope any new driver that is reading your post, is not stupid enough to go off those hills on I-17 in high gear as you suggest. I have enough conscious and moral to tell them it is not right, but it would seem that you do not, and are very likely to get someone else killed.

[Fredog]

most everyone runs 60-65 down this mountain..believe me its legal and safe..call az dot and ask them what the speed limit is..I dont go by your silly calculations, I drive the way I feel is safe. Any local Phoenix driver will tell you the same thing 60-65 all day long...if it's so unsafe, then why is it legal..

Arizona DOT wil tell someone to drive at speed that is safe for conditions, equipment, load and traffic. They will not tell a driver of a CMV, oh hell, the speed limit is XX, go for it, we have plenty of emergency personel to clean up the mess. Obviously what you feel is safe, if beyond any other responsible and safe drivers comprehension. The Arizona DOT will very easily ticket a driver that is going to fast down that or any hill, especially after the brakes start smoking because they were going to darn fast.

Just because you think it is safe, does not by any means make it safe! Common sense should prevail in all situations, not stupidity.

Please tell me you have not ever trained another driver in your ways. Good luck hand, and we will pray for your safety and those around you! I also hope any new driver that is reading your post, is not stupid enough to go off those hills on I-17 in high gear as you suggest. I have enough conscious and moral to tell them it is not right, but it would seem that you do not, and are very likely to get someone else killed.

Exactly, some innocent person will suffer because of this idiot.

[Popeye]

The phrasing for safe operation and space mangement that we just covered in class yesterday was to drive only as fast as would allow you to stop in a normal distance to avoid obstacles and hazards. If you can't do this because you will smoke your brakes than you are going to fast.

Seems simple to me but I guess my school is not in the BBR training business

[Fredog]

The phrasing for safe operation and space mangement that we just covered in class yesterday was to drive only as fast as would allow you to stop in a normal distance to avoid obstacles and hazards. If you can't do this because you will smoke your brakes than you are going to fast.

Seems simple to me but I guess my school is not in the BBR training business

according to supertrucker. if someone runs into the back of you. it's your fault because you werent going fast enough. I hate to think people like him are driving trucks. we can only pray that he just killls himself and no one else. I wonder if he runs over a mini van, if they will investigate the van driver for going too slow.

[aztrucker]

Like I said everybody drives that fast coming down this mountain, its no problem, except when idiots like you are crawly down with white knuckles going 30 mph. I've been driving for 27 years and have never had an accident. It's the rookies like you that cause all the problems out here. Your so called safety "paranoia" is what causes 90% of the accidents out here..Just ask Swift or Stevens insurance companies. If you cant run with the big dogs stay on the porch, and keep away from me and my fellow brothers..