New & Old Drivers....this book is a must have!!

[Skywalker]

There is a book available that will make your life so much easier with regards to DOT Regulations, and especially where HOS are concerned.

Here is the link to buy it:

https://server12.lfchosting.com/ASTA...cific=joqmnnp4

This book contains all of the pertinent parts of the FMCSR's, and the ALL IMPORTANT "GUIDANCE" THAT DOT OFFICERS USE TO MAKE DECISIONS.

If you buy this book, you will be able to answer 99.9% of your questions regarding HOS and such.....and will not end up getttin shot in the wallet over a stupid mistake. Of course, if you don't understand something, you may need clarification....but you will find that the guidance is written in plain English and easy to understand.

This book is worth its weight in gold. They also have the Hazmat Regulations in book like this. These are much larger in size, about 8" X 11" so they are easier to deal with. They cost $21.95.... a mere pittance compared to some of the fines that can be assessed for a simple mistake.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE, GET ONE NOW!!

BTW.... I don't work for them.... but I have one of their books, and now that I know they also have the Hazmat Regulations as well.... I'm going to buy one for myself. 8)

Another good one is "Sweatshop on Wheels" by Micheal Belzer. I highly recommend this book to those drivers who know how to read. He truly tells it like it is!

[kc0iv]

There is a book available that will make your life so much easier with regards to DOT Regulations, and especially where HOS are concerned.

Here is the link to buy it:

https://server12.lfchosting.com/ASTA...cific=joqmnnp4

This book contains all of the pertinent parts of the FMCSR's, and the ALL IMPORTANT "GUIDANCE" THAT DOT OFFICERS USE TO MAKE DECISIONS.

If you buy this book, you will be able to answer 99.9% of your questions regarding HOS and such.....and will not end up getttin shot in the wallet over a stupid mistake. Of course, if you don't understand something, you may need clarification....but you will find that the guidance is written in plain English and easy to understand.

This book is worth its weight in gold. They also have the Hazmat Regulations in book like this. These are much larger in size, about 8" X 11" so they are easier to deal with. They cost $21.95.... a mere pittance compared to some of the fines that can be assessed for a simple mistake.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE, GET ONE NOW!!

BTW.... I don't work for them.... but I have one of their books, and now that I know they also have the Hazmat Regulations as well.... I'm going to buy one for myself. 8)

Best thing I've found for HOS is Driver's Daily Log. I've been through many inspections and have never had a problem with D.O.T. Most of the time when I show them my logbook they didn't even turn the page.

kc0iv

[jimjim]

I got one of those books! All I had to do was attend Central Tech in Drumright, OK. Probably one of the best decisions I ever made, well, that and asking my sweety to marry me 30yrs. ago!

Another good one is "Sweatshop on Wheels" by Micheal Belzer. I highly recommend this book to those drivers who know how to read. He truly tells it like it is!

does this book happen to mention how all of us OTR drivers are suckers and we need to go LTL? I could be way off base here but i feel like that might be part of the content.... :twisted:

[Colin]

Another good one is "Sweatshop on Wheels" by Micheal Belzer. I highly recommend this book to those drivers who know how to read. He truly tells it like it is!

does this book happen to mention how all of us OTR drivers are suckers and we need to go LTL? I could be way off base here but i feel like that might be part of the content.... :twisted:

Yeah. I thought that was your job... 8)

And your comment in bold? Nice. Not even an emoticon behind it? Get bent.

[jnk2001]

Another good one is "Sweatshop on Wheels" by Micheal Belzer. I highly recommend this book to those drivers who know how to read. He truly tells it like it is!

I know I'm just a dumb truck driver...But i think we've been insulted.....

[Karnajj]

Another good one is "Sweatshop on Wheels" by Micheal Belzer. I highly recommend this book to those drivers who know how to read. He truly tells it like it is!

I know I'm just a dumb truck driver...But i think we've been insulted.....

I thought you knew, only ltl drivers are smart enough to know how to read!

[ssoutlaw]

Another good one is "Sweatshop on Wheels" by Micheal Belzer. I highly recommend this book to those drivers who know how to read. He truly tells it like it is!

does this book happen to mention how all of us OTR drivers are suckers and we need to go LTL? I could be way off base here but i feel like that might be part of the content.... :twisted:

[WildK9]

Another good one is "Sweatshop on Wheels" by Micheal Belzer. I highly recommend this book to those drivers who know how to read. He truly tells it like it is!

I know I'm just a dumb truck driver...But i think we've been insulted.....

I thought you knew, only ltl drivers are smart enough to know how to read!

And your comment in bold? Nice. Not even an emoticon behind it? Get bent.

Take a chill-pill Colin, I wasn't being serious. I'm a truckdriver just like you are for chistsakes. Except that I'm better paid and better looking.

[WildK9]

And your comment in bold? Nice. Not even an emoticon behind it? Get bent.

Take a chill-pill Colin, I wasn't being serious. I'm a truckdriver just like you are for chistsakes. Except that I'm better paid and better looking.

and betr edjumacated rite!?!

[Skywalker]

I think maybe all sides of an argument have validity....and it behooves all people in this industry to become aware of the pluses and minuses of the industry.....

But I didn't start this thread for the benefit of an argument.... it was to give everyone a resource for information that could save one's butt in a jam, or prevent the un-necessary parting with ones income. 8)

[Skywalker]

Best thing I've found for HOS is Driver's Daily Log. I've been through many inspections and have never had a problem with D.O.T. Most of the time when I show them my logbook they didn't even turn the page.

Be that as it may....and DDL is a good program, however, I don't recall it containing "wide ranging guidance" regarding not only HOS but many other subjects as well.

For instance....does DDL give you proof positive that you can operate a "tractor" while "off duty" and log it as such, and in such a manner that will stand up in court? This is the type of information that is provided in the book I have referenced above..... 8)

[kc0iv]

Best thing I've found for HOS is Driver's Daily Log. I've been through many inspections and have never had a problem with D.O.T. Most of the time when I show them my logbook they didn't even turn the page.

Be that as it may....and DDL is a good program, however, I don't recall it containing "wide ranging guidance" regarding not only HOS but many other subjects as well.

For instance....does DDL give you proof positive that you can operate a "tractor" while "off duty" and log it as such, and in such a manner that will stand up in court? This is the type of information that is provided in the book I have referenced above..... 8)

To my knowledge the use of using a tractor while being off-duty has never been tested in court. And if I am correct the information the book you reference is only an assumption on what the writer understands the rules says. The same thing can be said for DDL. As the rev pointed out a week or so ago the rules is silent. I have only found it in their guidance and it is very vague. Such things as how far a driver can travel is not addressed. Nor does it address can an empty trailer be attached and still be logged as off-duty.

I don't have a problem with people reading all they can on the topic of HOS. However, very few people have total recall of the material they read. A program such as DDL will show you when you are in violation or getting close. That is the main reason I recommend the program.

kc0iv

[Skywalker]

To my knowledge the use of using a tractor while being off-duty has never been tested in court.

Couldn't tell you if it has or has not....but more than likely there have been tickets written regarding it.

And if I am correct the information the book you reference is only an assumption on what the writer understands the rules says.

No sir. The source of the "guidance" is the federal government. Thus the guidance is what the States DOT's rely on.

The same thing can be said for DDL. As the rev pointed out a week or so ago the rules is silent. I have only found it in their guidance and it is very vague. Such things as how far a driver can travel is not addressed. Nor does it address can an empty trailer be attached and still be logged as off-duty.

The answer is pretty simple actually. Distance is relative, and common sense applies. Plus you cannot be under dispatch, and pulling a trailer is not permitted....as the rule addresses only the use of a tractor.

I don't have a problem with people reading all they can on the topic of HOS. However, very few people have total recall of the material they read. A program such as DDL will show you when you are in violation or getting close. That is the main reason I recommend the program.

Granted, many people don't have total recall....but many have the ability to retain triggers that will cause them to think when broaching certain subjects. DDL is a pretty good program....and may be a good tool for some people.... but I find it more time consuming than my calculator and own mind...
8) I think that Drivers, both new and experienced need to have and use every tool and resource at hand to protect themselves and their incomes.

[kc0iv]

To my knowledge the use of using a tractor while being off-duty has never been tested in court.

Couldn't tell you if it has or has not....but more than likely there have been tickets written regarding it.

And if I am correct the information the book you reference is only an assumption on what the writer understands the rules says.

No sir. The source of the "guidance" is the federal government. Thus the guidance is what the States DOT's rely on.

The same thing can be said for DDL. As the rev pointed out a week or so ago the rules is silent. I have only found it in their guidance and it is very vague. Such things as how far a driver can travel is not addressed. Nor does it address can an empty trailer be attached and still be logged as off-duty.

The answer is pretty simple actually. Distance is relative, and common sense applies. Plus you cannot be under dispatch, and pulling a trailer is not permitted....as the rule addresses only the use of a tractor.

I don't have a problem with people reading all they can on the topic of HOS. However, very few people have total recall of the material they read. A program such as DDL will show you when you are in violation or getting close. That is the main reason I recommend the program.

Granted, many people don't have total recall....but many have the ability to retain triggers that will cause them to think when broaching certain subjects. DDL is a pretty good program....and may be a good tool for some people.... but I find it more time consuming than my calculator and own mind...
8) I think that Drivers, both new and experienced need to have and use every tool and resource at hand to protect themselves and their incomes.

No sir. The source of the "guidance" is the federal government. Thus the guidance is what the States DOT's rely on.

I understand the "guidance" is written by the FMCSR. However, the state D.O.T. must cite a rule (not the guidance) when they write a ticket. Or they have to have case law to support their claim.

The answer is pretty simple actually. Distance is relative, and common sense applies. Plus you cannot be under dispatch, and pulling a trailer is not permitted....as the rule addresses only the use of a tractor.

I respectively disagree.

Reading the guidance http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...&section=390.5 Question 5.

Question 5: A driver used by a motor carrier operates a CMV to and from his/her residence out of State. Is this considered interstate commerce?

Guidance: If the driver is operating a CMV at the direction of the motor carrier, it is considered interstate commerce and is subject to the FMCSRs. If the motor carrier is allowing the driver to use the vehicle for private personal transportation, such transportation is not subject to the FMCSRs.

A CMV is defined as any vehicle used for commercial use. See: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...3.5#49CFR383.5 As you can see you can cross state lines and NOT be subject the FMCSRs.

I believe you ( or the author) have also misunderstood the guidance on what it says about the use of a CMV. Quoting the FMCSR: Question 26.

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.

Notice the key phrase is "relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work." There are no limitation as to distance or pulling a trailer as to how far you can travel be it down the street or across states lines. The only acceptation is it can not be laden and it can not be used when a driver is placed "out of service".

I guess I will have to get the book and see just what it has to say. Not that it concerns me since I am now retired.

It has been an interesting discussion.

kc0iv

[silvan]

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her

I'm not clear where that one came from. I'd like to print it and keep it with me, just in case. I drop my trailer about 12 miles away, and bobtail to my house. I log this as off duty, and don't log the miles. I could park my truck 12 miles away, and leave it sitting, but I'd rather keep it where I can keep an eye on it (and where it won't be getting covered in corrosive crap and black scum all night.) I've kind of been treating this as a little under the table fudge, but it sounds like it might actually be 100% legal. 100% legal is better. I'd like to back it up, just in case I ever get called on it. I could actually log the extra time and miles, but old habits die hard.

[Skywalker]

No sir. The source of the "guidance" is the federal government. Thus the guidance is what the States DOT's rely on.

I understand the "guidance" is written by the FMCSR. However, the state D.O.T. must cite a rule (not the guidance) when they write a ticket. Or they have to have case law to support their claim.

The answer is pretty simple actually. Distance is relative, and common sense applies. Plus you cannot be under dispatch, and pulling a trailer is not permitted....as the rule addresses only the use of a tractor.

I respectively disagree.

Reading the guidance http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...&section=390.5 Question 5.

Question 5: A driver used by a motor carrier operates a CMV to and from his/her residence out of State. Is this considered interstate commerce?

Guidance: If the driver is operating a CMV at the direction of the motor carrier, it is considered interstate commerce and is subject to the FMCSRs. If the motor carrier is allowing the driver to use the vehicle for private personal transportation, such transportation is not subject to the FMCSRs.

Based on the general wording...I would have to somewhat agree, however....having spoken with DOT Officers here in FL.... they state that as far as FL is concerned....if there is a trailer behind the tractor, the time must be logged as "driving". Without the trailer...it can be logged as off duty, if in fact you are using it as a "personal conveyance". Also, our Safety people have instructed us to never log off duty with a tank hooked to the tractor. Bobtailing off duty, ok.

A CMV is defined as any vehicle used for commercial use. See: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...3.5#49CFR383.5 As you can see you can cross state lines and NOT be subject the FMCSRs.

I believe you ( or the author) have also misunderstood the guidance on what it says about the use of a CMV. Quoting the FMCSR: Question 26.

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.

Notice the key phrase is "relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work." There are no limitation as to distance or pulling a trailer as to how far you can travel be it down the street or across states lines. The only acceptation is it can not be laden and it can not be used when a driver is placed "out of service".

I guess I will have to get the book and see just what it has to say. Not that it concerns me since I am now retired.

It has been an interesting discussion.

kc0iv

I think one of the "keys" is in the phrase "traveling short distances"... is what can make a difference. Also....the unfortunate side of things is that there is much room for "personal interpretation" on the part of the Officer who stops you. As with most everything the Fed gets involved in, there is much wiggle room, and it seems to give birth to more questions than it resolves.... :? You're right...it does make for interesting discussion!!

[Skywalker]

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her

I'm not clear where that one came from. I'd like to print it and keep it with me, just in case. I drop my trailer about 12 miles away, and bobtail to my house. I log this as off duty, and don't log the miles. I could park my truck 12 miles away, and leave it sitting, but I'd rather keep it where I can keep an eye on it (and where it won't be getting covered in corrosive crap and black scum all night.) I've kind of been treating this as a little under the table fudge, but it sounds like it might actually be 100% legal. 100% legal is better. I'd like to back it up, just in case I ever get called on it. I could actually log the extra time and miles, but old habits die hard.

In the particular case that you have shown.... You do not have to log the time/miles from where you drop your trailer to your house. In that event you are using it as a personal conveyance.

Its spelled out right here....as kc0iv posted it:

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

You just have to be sure that the applicable conditions are met.

You may be able to use one of the links he posted to print down the information....and its also contained in the book that I referenced at the beginning of this thread. 8)