New & Old Drivers....this book is a must have!!

[kc0iv]

Based on the general wording...I would have to somewhat agree, however....having spoken with DOT Officers here in FL.... they state that as far as FL is concerned....if there is a trailer behind the tractor, the time must be logged as "driving". Without the trailer...it can be logged as off duty, if in fact you are using it as a "personal conveyance". Also, our Safety people have instructed us to never log off duty with a tank hooked to the tractor. Bobtailing off duty, ok.

You hit the nail on the head. Even though the rules is clear your D.O.T. (and many others) has decided to create their own law. I suspect if one looks up the statutes they will NOT find any such statute. It would be interesting if sometime in your discussion with FL. D.O.T. you would ask them to show you the statute. I suspect they can't produce such a rule.

Company rules is a totally different matter. They can add to any rule, as far as the additional rule is legal, they so desire. Just like the states can add to federal law.

I think one of the "keys" is in the phrase "traveling short distances"... is what can make a difference. Also....the unfortunate side of things is that there is much room for "personal interpretation" on the part of the Officer who stops you. As with most everything the Fed gets involved in, there is much wiggle room, and it seems to give birth to more questions than it resolves.... You're right...it does make for interesting discussion!!

The portion about "traveling short distances" would appear to be where a driver has NOT been relieved from work. Otherwise the first part of the guidance contradict the second part. I believe this is supported by the very next sentence - "The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden."

I do agree 100% with you on the FEDs getting involved. Then add in officer(s) that don't read the laws but go by what the they think the law should be and problems can really get out-of-hand.

Be safe and Have a great day.

kc0iv

[silvan]

Its spelled out right here....as kc0iv posted it:

Question 26:

I followed the link in that post, and question 26 was completely unrelated to this topic. Hence my question. I figured he was pulling the info from someplace else.

(There is no question 26 there. It's all like:
§383.5Administrator means the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administrator, the chief executive of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, an agency within the Department of Transportation.
Alcohol or "alcoholic beverage" means: (a) Beer as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5052(a), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, (b) wine of not less than one half of one per centum of alcohol by volume, or (c) distilled spirits as defined in
[blah blah blah])

[kc0iv]

Its spelled out right here....as kc0iv posted it:

Question 26:

I followed the link in that post, and question 26 was completely unrelated to this topic. Hence my question. I figured he was pulling the info from someplace else.

I didn't link provide a link to the quoted material. Here's the link: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...&section=395.8 where I made the quote.

Sorry for not doing it in the first place.

Finding material in the guidance sections takes a little extra work. It is not as easy as finding the rules themselves.

kc0iv

[Skywalker]

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

Thats the question with the "guidance" from the FMCSR's. It came via the link in kc0iv's last post.

In a sense...it does seem a little contradictory....but then, the Fed has a way of taking a simple issue and turning it into a maelstrom of crap. When I was an Air Traffic Controller for the Army....the FAA Flight Rules were not written by pilots...but instead by "lawyers"....probably none of whom were pilots....and the wording of the rules was often contradictory as well. Might of just as well been written in Russian or better yet, ancient Latin.

Seems it would just be "simpler" to say a driver can operate a "bobtail" or unladen straight truck as a personal conveyance while off-duty, and be done with it...

:? 8)

[kc0iv]

Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

Thats the question with the "guidance" from the FMCSR's. It came via the link in kc0iv's last post.

In a sense...it does seem a little contradictory....but then, the Fed has a way of taking a simple issue and turning it into a maelstrom of crap. When I was an Air Traffic Controller for the Army....the FAA Flight Rules were not written by pilots...but instead by "lawyers"....probably none of whom were pilots....and the wording of the rules was often contradictory as well. Might of just as well been written in Russian or better yet, ancient Latin.

Seems it would just be "simpler" to say a driver can operate a "bobtail" or unladen straight truck as a personal conveyance while off-duty, and be done with it...

:? 8)

I really don't see see a contradiction. When you break the guidance down to sections it really boils down to relieved from work vs not being relieved from work.

The wording might be better as they have done in other sections of the R&R.

kc0iv

[Skywalker]

Maybe "contradiction"/"contradictory".....isn't the best word 8) I think you said it best when you said the The wording might be better as they have done in other sections of the R&R. It certainly could have been worded in a simpler and better manner. 8)

[golfhobo]

The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance.

The interpretation by the FL DOT, or additional rules by a company, nothwithstanding....

I believe the "keyword" is LADEN. The above seems to clearly state (to me) that it doesn't matter whether you are bobtail or dragging a box or tank, as long as you are NOT under a BOL.

[worldisnotenough]

do they make it an audio book. I don't read much.

[BigWheels]

do they make it an audio book. I don't read much.

You serious? 8)

I don't know about you but I'd be asleep at the wheel in 5-minutes listening to the R&R and guidance on the R&R. :shock:

[worldisnotenough]

you'll find that I am rarely serious. When I begin to rant and misspell words. That is when I am serious!

[BigWheels]

you'll find that I am rarely serious. When I begin to rant and misspell words. That is when I am serious!

[cybergod]

There is a book available that will make your life so much easier with regards to DOT Regulations, and especially where HOS are concerned.

Here is the link to buy it:

https://server12.lfchosting.com/ASTA...cific=joqmnnp4

This book contains all of the pertinent parts of the FMCSR's, and the ALL IMPORTANT "GUIDANCE" THAT DOT OFFICERS USE TO MAKE DECISIONS.

If you buy this book, you will be able to answer 99.9% of your questions regarding HOS and such.....and will not end up getttin shot in the wallet over a stupid mistake. Of course, if you don't understand something, you may need clarification....but you will find that the guidance is written in plain English and easy to understand.

This book is worth its weight in gold. They also have the Hazmat Regulations in book like this. These are much larger in size, about 8" X 11" so they are easier to deal with. They cost $21.95.... a mere pittance compared to some of the fines that can be assessed for a simple mistake.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE, GET ONE NOW!!

BTW.... I don't work for them.... but I have one of their books, and now that I know they also have the Hazmat Regulations as well.... I'm going to buy one for myself. 8)

Wow, just what a noob driver like me needs. I'd buy this in a minute -- except that, oddly enough, no title or author is given.

[Skywalker]

Wow, just what a noob driver like me needs. I'd buy this in a minute -- except that, oddly enough, no title or author is given.

Go here: Driver FMCSR - MANCOMM Store Its the Drivers FMCSR's.....