down shifting and grinding gears

[sam william]

thanks to you rookie
this is what i am going to do
i well say to my instructor what gear i am in every time i shift and every time i am down shifting and keep telling him what gear i am in every 15 second this work with one of the student and he is doing good
and i well keep my hand on the gear stick very firmly until I reach the desire speed on the road my instructor stick a diagram showing the gear where is first and where is second and so on
i am going to relax and spend good time before start Monday
really i need to do this . all the respect and greeting to all truck drivers now i know how important their job is and how they are underestimate by the society

[geeshock]

lol, wait till you really do this for a living, then you'll really understand.

BOL and keep it safe

[Papa Rick]

I'm not sure for other states but I believe there all the same, in that you to use the clutch to shift, up or down. I taught at a Driving School for a couple of years, and we would have people come in who could float the gears, but this is not what was required by the State when testing.

In fact if you didn't double clutch it was cause for automatic failure. So to try and help you out, there has been some great advice given to you. The only thing I would add is to remember when downshifting, you must have your rpm's going up and then downshift them on the way down.

Example: Your in 10th gear speed 60mph, rpm around 1500, the only way it will go into 9th gear is for your rpms to be higher than they were in the gear you just took it out of, so when your getting ready to downshift, slow down some, watch your rpm's and when they are around1200 - 1300 then do your downshift and remember to get the rpms up to 1700 - 1900 and put it in gear as the rpms drop. Don't mash the clutch all the way in while doing this or it will make it nearly impossible to get it done.

Remember when up-shifting, let them drop (Rpm's) and when downshifting, you've got to rev it up.

Now for the crazy advice to give you: When I had students who were having a problem doing either up or down, I would have them go to a classroom all by themself and sit in a chair with Bathroom plunger and practice this over until they were comfortable doing this. I didn't do this to embarrass them, but to help them get it in their mind first because like anything else that is new to us, once you get it in your mind it is much easier to do. No student wanted to do this to start with, but after some practice, I never had one student tell me it didn't help them greatly.

[millersod215]

hey FOZZY, not to get heated here, but why are you telling me my technique is not proper, and if you read my post i clearly stated that this individual could try this technique once he got on his own and started feeling comfortable. I've had the most success with the way i downshift, i come to a controlled stop, with no herky jerky crap, if you ask me i think that's pretty damn proper.

[ssoutlaw]

This is going to sound strange, and i wouldn't recommend it as a procedure you use in school, but i'll tell you anyway.........Here goes, hopefully i can make sense with it. When you get on your own, and begin to feel confident, and learn how to "float" your gears, try braking with your left foot, this will allow a nice steady braking, and use your right foot for accelerating out of gear and in turn raising your RPM's to make the downshift, i see so many guys trying to rush the downshift, using your right foot to accelerate out of gear, hoping like hell you get it in first try, and then if not you rush over to hit the brake to slow you down, and then you try the process all over again. I know it might seem weird, but i came across it in an "old timers" article over on layover.com, and i've been using this method of controlled braking and downshifting ever since, i don't clame to be perfect at what i do, but i sure know that it smooths everything out. Maybe some others out there are using this technique also, and can let me know of more success stories.

Don't tell a new driver to use his left foot for the brake at all, left foot is for the clutch..... Right foot brake and GAS. In 30 yrs I have never used the brake to help any shift at all!
Hand and foot timing raise the RPM, this is why the plunger and a chair are a good training tool!!!

[Jack_07]

What I did a time or two when i was learning to upshift or downshift and I missed a gear was to just rest my foot on the clutch and float the gear till I got used to double clutching.
learn to shift in about 400 rpm difference up or down.
when shifting down use the brake to slow you down a lil if needed, let the rpm's drop to about 1200 simutainiously as the clucth is tapped take tranny out of gear, the tap the accelerator and bring the rpms up to about 1500 to 1600 rpms simutainiously tap clutch and put in gear, its all about the timing.
I can upshift within 200 rpms downshifting is a lil bit slower.
Just remember to never mash the clutch in over about 2 inches when double clutching.
if you can float the gears you can double clutch.

[Fozzy]

hey FOZZY, not to get heated here, but why are you telling me my technique is not proper, and if you read my post i clearly stated that this individual could try this technique once he got on his own and started feeling comfortable. I've had the most success with the way i downshift, i come to a controlled stop, with no herky jerky crap, if you ask me i think that's pretty damn proper.

This is not a question on whether or not what you do in your truck is proper or not. I never had to use anything but the right foot for the accellerator and the brake, and the left foot for the gas, You and anyone else can shift how ever you want. This is not really what will help this new driver's problem. If he were out on the truck by himself and needed tips to shift, then your technique may be tried and it might have helped the guy. Problem is that thus guy is trying to pass the skills test and depending on the state they will automatically fail the guy if he tries anything but the proper use of the controls defined by the state CDL manuals and the examiner's knowlwedge. If he gets a "white glove" examiner and trys anything but double clutching, he could auto fail and or even fail for an "unsafe act".

I know that driver want to help, but anything that does not include the basics of double clutching, use of the accelerator, brakes and tachometer are just confusing the issue to a guy that doesn't need anymore confusing in his life right now. It's probably been a while for you since you were in his shoes, but I can tell you having been an instructor and a CDL examiner that this is almost life and death for these people mentally. This is about as stressful for an adult as most anything and especially if they are having problems. The "anyone can drive a truck" mentality goes right out the window when the truck first starts moving and it gets more mentally taxing every second for a lot of people. They get frustrated because it sometimes is just not easy and its darned confusing to be an adult and not being able to "just do it". It takes some time.

[millersod215]

I just don't understand here, i told this guy once he got comfortable with driving, and understood what he was doing, this was simply a technique he could try, if he likes it great, if not, he can go back to what he was doing. It kinda sucks when I come on here and try to give helpful advice, sometimes advice that othe people, not mentioning any names might not find helpful, but all the while i'm just trying to help. If this driver doesn't like the way i down shift, no feelings will be hurt, and again if you look at my original post i clearly stated once he became "comfortable" with what he was doing. I've been around trucking for 4 years now, maybe not as long as some of you, but 4 years with no accidents, tickets, etc, i believe that says something about the way i drive!!!!

[Fozzy]

Thats the problem. ADDING things that occur AFTER this guy is "comfortable" is just not really helpful at this stage of HIS game. I realize that you are trying to help, your just really not helping the guy and possible may be hurting the guy. Don't take this so personal. If he were on truck after CDL training and you could teach this guy your technique, then thats another matter. Most good schools have their instructors "dialed in" to teach these core subjects exactly the same way as to not add confusion to the new folks. When there is only one way to pass the skills tests, you MUST teach the skill the only way it can be perfomed to pass the skills test. That is the goal.

When the driver "gets his wings" he can try whatever he wishes. Even floating...

[Jack_07]

Thats the problem. ADDING things that occur AFTER this guy is "comfortable" is just not really helpful at this stage of HIS game. I realize that you are trying to help, your just really not helping the guy and possible may be hurting the guy. Don't take this so personal. If he were on truck after CDL training and you could teach this guy your technique, then thats another matter. Most good schools have their instructors "dialed in" to teach these core subjects exactly the same way as to not add confusion to the new folks. When there is only one way to pass the skills tests, you MUST teach the skill the only way it can be perfomed to pass the skills test. That is the goal.

When the driver "gets his wings" he can try whatever he wishes. Even floating...

Fossy seems to be right on the money, it is a skills test. My instructor told me to get the truck in gear within the length of the truck and trailer, its not so much that you can shift without scratching gears but its more important that if you miss a gear that you can recover by putting the tranny back into a gear.
They are not expecting anyone to be perfect, just safe enough to drive in traffic.
My instructor was always telling me this, your going to slow in traffic, you are now a traffic hazzard, then its whats the speed limit, your going to fast, so confusing lol, then finally after I nearly put the instructor into the dash by stopping the truck on a dime at 25 mph when the traffic light turned yellow, he told me if you were loaded all your freight just wound up in the nose and laughed lmao.
The whole thing is a test its not just the driving but how well you handle different situtaions while driving.

[Douglas]

When you downshift, you're supposed to take the gearshift out of gear, then when it's in neutral, tap the gas pedal to get the rpms up a bit (in out truck it's around 1200 to 1700) then shift it into the next lower gear. I'm still in school and I suck at it too, so don't worry about it. Just keep practicing. :wink:

(A lot of times the instructor will say things like that to you to get you to start doing better).

[got mud?]

one thing new guys do is try to rush the down shift. just relax. my instructor would have us pull it out of gear then ask us our ss number. once we answered he would say "now bump it up to 1300 and put it in. as long as your road speed doesnt change it works every time. the other thing i did wrong was i would over shoot the rpm and try to stick it in as it fell but often missed the window. try to practice revving a three or four hundred rpm bump everytime and put it into gear at the peak of your rev.

[sam william]

today I tried what i learned from you and i did fairly good my instructor said there is improvement on my down shifting not 100% but improved
i would like to thank every one who helped me and thanks for the encouragement

[ibamars]

Relax!!! I had the same problem also when I first started. I could'nt downshift a truck and grind a meal for a week if it were steak.

My trainer was awesome. We were in Nebraska. He took a piece of paper. The first test was put it over the RPM's so I couldnt see them. He made me listen to the motor and watch the speed and then downshift from there.

Then we covered the speedometer and I was to downshift watching my rpms and go from that.

Then we covered both Tach and Speed and I was to do it from there. You know what, I learned from this technique. We got off every exit for like 30 miles. Start at first and go all the way to tenth. Go from tenth and go all the way to first. Yes 1st gear!!!

Did it work? Absolutely. Did I still grind em after that? Absolutely. But you know what! I got way better and the next thing you know I was floating gears up and down. Skipping gears etc..

You will get it!!! Practice practice practice.... But once you get it, you got it. kinda like riding a bike.

So you trainer needs to have patience and work with you and find what your doing wrong, Not yell at ya, Good luck

[Rob_0126]

Just my 2 cents here:

Ive been driving for over 2 years now and I have my own little pattern for shifting and you will have yours too.

Most of the time, I look at my speed to determine what gear Im gonna go into. Nothing wrong with looking at the speedo for reference when your in a pinch to get it right fairly quickly.

I grind gears quite a bit because the tranny in my truck isn't in the best shape in the world(has at least 1.25 million on it, prolly same clutch). Good thing is, my shifter was replaced so it's a tight shift and not all sloppy which I cant stand(pet peeve). I can still avoid the severity of the grind by taking my time, easing the gear in; feeling it in per say.

My truck beats me slap to death but it handles better than the new ones(99 T-600) and has the old school steering wheel which I like.(hate those airbag wheels).

Anyways, you will get better at it, I guarantee. I wish instructors were more realistic with trainees because some things they teach you just arent very practical in the real world, in certain situations. Safety always though.

Some personal advice: When delivering to an area where the roads just get smaller and tighter, before you turn down that tiny street with low hanging limbs, stop right there, and call them to be doubly sure. It's better to tick people off because your in the middle of the road(flashers on) than to turn down a road, then have to back back out into traffic; That will make your hair stand up on end.

[cecole74]

its been 6 weeks and i am still having trouble on down shifting the instructor told this week if i am not improve i well be down grade me to D licen which relay got me upset after all the hard ship and the money invested and the time it come to this is there any way that i can improve my down shifting up shifting is excellent according to him and most time when i down shift i go to the wrong gear and grind the gear . other thing he said i drive too slow for the traffic .
i am starting getting really cranky i don't know what to do
please help
thanks

First off I had instructors do the same to me at my school so it ain't unusual to be told things like that. The only time my instructor did not grind them was when he floated . Just relax. If you are all wound up shifting will be a pain in the butt. find a way to remember what gear for what speed (there are a bunch) and stick with it. if the speed/RPM is wrong it wont go. You will be fine, just don't let that guy get to you. When you get out on the road the stress will be worse and you will have to manage it and be able to shift.