So this J.B. recruiter has called me offering .40 cents a

[Twilight Flyer]

I'm not wanting to play sides here, but I have to interject one thing. Most companies will not guarantee mileage for the simple matter in that this is trucking. And where does that "guarantee" get cut off? What if the driver is late, goes out of route, gets lost, or any of a dozen or more different scenarios, some of them the driver's fault, some of them not.

Trucking is the most unpredictable beast out there, bar none, when it comes to jobs, because there are so many different players in the game...meaning driver, dispatch, planner, customer, DOT, stupid 4-wheelers, etc. and the company and the driver has to deal with them all in one way or another.

As far as guarantees, a company could guarantee PAY, with the right policies in place, but could not or should not come out and guarantee mileage. We have a couple of $825 guaranteed pay short haul fleets where the basic requirement is the driver is available for dispatch 5 1/2 days out of the week. It's mostly local stuff (250 mile radius), home on the weekend and sometimes during the week, but it's guaranteed pay because they do a lot of short runs. And if they run a lot of miles, then we would pay them mileage if their mileage would take them over $800. But we guarantee it because we know going in that the the mileage is low.

[Rev.Vassago]

REALITY, you as a driver cant guarantee that you will never be in a accident, you cant guarantee that you will always be on time. You cant guarantee that you will never get sick.

True, and point taken

You cant guarantee that you are an above average driver.

Sure I can.

Once again, the only thing I can do is tell you what the average driver is making. Whether you are an above average driver or not isnt up to me, its up to you.

This is my major beef with the larger companies. They spew advertising stating "Our top driver made $90,000 last year!". That says absolutely nothing. They say "You'll average $30,000 - $35,000 your first year!". Last I checked, an AVERAGE isn't a range of numbers. Perhaps if the companies (and by association, the recruiters), were more up front with prospective employees, then the drivers wouldn't have such disdain for them. If a company (and by association, a recruiter) is beating around the bush with pointless numbers, and double talk, then there is probably a reason for it.

Hell, nothing about my job is guaranteed. Well, I take that back, Im guaranteed to make at least minimum wage if I come to work. I wouldnt have it any other way.

Funny that your company doesn't do the same for its drivers. :wink:

[Twilight Flyer]

You cant guarantee that you are an above average driver.

Sure I can.

The problem with that, Rev, is that every driver I (we) ever talk to, will say the same thing. The thing with average, whether talking about drivers or miles is that half the drivers are better and the other half are worse. Same thing with miles. Half of them do better, half of them don't.

Our top OTR driver last year made $82K. Our average for the OTR fleet was $60K, meaning about half made that or better and half made that or lower. Average is just that...average.

[ben45750]

And BTW, an AVERAGE is not a RANGE of numbers. They teach you that in grade school math.

Last I checked, an AVERAGE isn't a range of numbers.

Why is it that you are the only one on this entire website that can't "get" it? No one said an average is a range of numbers. When a person says they average BETWEEN two different numbers it then BECOMES a RANGE of numbers because the specific number is not defined, therefore they specify a range of the average that a number falls into.

[Rev.Vassago]

Why is it that you are the only one on this entire website that can't "get" it? No one said an average is a range of numbers.

Ummm, you did - when you said this:

I have been working for JB Hunt since the first of December, I have been averaging 2700-2800 miles a week

When a person says they average BETWEEN two different numbers it then BECOMES a RANGE of numbers because the specific number is not defined, therefore they specify a range of the average that a number falls into.

Perhaps some remedial math would help you. If 10 drivers earn $40,000, and 10 drivers earn $30,000, the AVERAGE driver earns $35,000, and not $34,000 - $36,000. The carriers that have drilled this "trucker's math" into your head have you brainwashed. There is a reason they use ranges - because generally, the lowest number of the range is the most realistic number. But, they don't call them "ranges", they call them "average", when in reality, they are anything but.

I'm sure you've heard before that if a company says you'll "average" 2500-3000 miles a week, then it's a safe bet that you'll "average" 2500 miles a week.

[ben45750]

Do you know what that little thing that looks like - ? When you put that between two numbers that would indicate between or a range between the two numbers. If I would have used a , between two numbers that would have indicated there is no range between the two numbers.

[ben45750]

Most companies will not guarantee mileage for the simple matter in that this is trucking.

Only except for the company's Rev has worked for, cause you know he has an exception for every rule that applies to him.

[Rev.Vassago]

Do you know what that little thing that looks like - ? When you put that between two numbers that would indicate between or a range between the two numbers. If I would have used a , between two numbers that would have indicated there is no range between the two numbers.

Then don't call it an average, because it isn't.

[Crackaces]

Why is it that you are the only one on this entire website that can't "get" it? No one said an average is a range of numbers.

Ummm, you did - when you said this:

I have been working for JB Hunt since the first of December, I have been averaging 2700-2800 miles a week

When a person says they average BETWEEN two different numbers it then BECOMES a RANGE of numbers because the specific number is not defined, therefore they specify a range of the average that a number falls into.

Perhaps some remedial math would help you. If 10 drivers earn $40,000, and 10 drivers earn $30,000, the AVERAGE driver earns $35,000, and not $34,000 - $36,000. The carriers that have drilled this "trucker's math" into your head have you brainwashed. There is a reason they use ranges - because generally, the lowest number of the range is the most realistic number. But, they don't call them "ranges", they call them "average", when in reality, they are anything but.

I'm sure you've heard before that if a company says you'll "average" 2500-3000 miles a week, then it's a safe bet that you'll "average" 2500 miles a week.

In response to "Perhaps some remedial math would help you" Actually Rev .. expressing an average as a range is acceptable.

There are three "averages" mean. mode, and median. We assume mean -- but the mode and the median in this case are very very interesing.

In looking at the mean there are sample means, and population means. Because truck driving has many varibles it is possible to sample one drivers weekly milage, the entire fleets average, Then there is the problem of comparing one population mean to the average of another population mean.


Case 1: I could express the averages of Multiple curves as a range. Let us say the average includes multiple drivers driving several different types of conditions -- expressing this as range would be very acceptable. This would be expressing the averages of the averages ...

Case 2: It is acceptable to express -1 stddev to +1 stddev as a range. This is because most people would not understand mean, stddev, sample means, population means, etc. So to simplify this expressing the confidence your mean (the average of your widgets) will fall with the population of widgets. In this case your miles as a driver compared to a population of drivers. Yes it would be better to say "We feel with X confidence your average miles will fall between X - Y" However, I see more and more statements leaving out the technical constraints. But your assumption that exressing such an average as a range is wrong .. well is plainly you do not understand. I just assume some unknown confidence level and take the information at its face value.


Just a thought sir ... Arrogance helps none ...

[Rev.Vassago]

As I said, there is a reason they use ranges rather than averages - because generally, the lowest number of the range is the most realistic number. But, they don't call them "ranges", they call them "average", when in reality, they are anything but.

[Ian Williams]

In an ideal world carriers would show the entire range of what drivers who were employed for a full year earned broken down by month.

Mean does not tell you much. You could have 3 guys making $30k and one team driver/"trainer" who rakes in $90. Mean would be $45, while median would be 30.

Lowest, Highest and the inter-quartile range would be a good measurement. In the above example it would be 30, 90 and 30-30.

But I suspect that the McMegaCarriers would have a harder time recruiting if they offered realistic audited earnings figures. Especially when you divide by the 70-100 hrs per week that you really spend on lines 3 & 4.

But when it come down to it you have to talk to a good sample 10-15+ of drivers for the carrier. Use the CB or buy guys a cup of coffee at truck stops.

[ben45750]

The opinions expressed by the author should be yours as well, if you knew what was good for you. They secretly represent the views of CAD or of the other members of CAD.

So you know are a representative of CAD? I bet CAD would be real happy having you as a representative, when when do you get your Mod status?

[ben45750]

This is what you should have in your signature instead of claiming to be associated with CAD.

(EDITED) - THAT WAS UNCALLED FOR AND NO FURTHER WARNINGS WILL BE GIVEN.

Nice cheap shot. Edit my post because of another another thread. I post a picture of women's feminine hygiene product and glad trash bags not even using the two words and my post is edited. But it's ok for someone else to come right out and say it

Way to use mod-ship powers.

what a ****** bag.

(not taking a shot at you Blacksheep or dragging you into this. Just making a point, don't disagree with someone with some power on this site)

Am I going to be baned now for quoting someone else?

[Rev.Vassago]

Lowest, Highest and the inter-quartile range would be a good measurement. In the above example it would be 30, 90 and 30-30.

But I suspect that the McMegaCarriers would have a harder time recruiting if they offered realistic audited earnings figures. Especially when you divide by the 70-100 hrs per week that you really spend on lines 3 & 4.

Agreed 100%. At least someone else here understands. :wink:

The numbers that the big carriers advertise with are usually skewed to either:

1. Show them in the best light, or
2. Dupe the unsuspecting public.

That's all fine and well (they have a right to pretend they are the best carrier on earth), but when they try to push those numbers as being an average that at least 50% of their fleet obtains, then it crosses into borderline false advertising.

Unfortunately, most recruiters are simply spewing the dribble that the companies provide them, without actually looking into the data to confirm its validity. I also suspect that the recruiters are guilty of a little "number manipulation" of their own.

After all, if "McMegaCarrier" is saying that their drivers "averaged" $70,000 a year, then their prospective employees should AT LEAST have a 50% chance of meeting that number. Sadly, I think that is unlikely, and only serves to alienate more drivers who are looking for "greener grass", and finding only deception.

The sad by-product of this phenomenon is that drivers use that same "trucker's math" to describe their own operations. They use partial data, add ranges where there are none, and use those false averages to boost up their own data. If I drove an average of 2500 miles a week, and present the data as a range, saying "I average 2500-2800 miles a week", it doesn't change the real numbers, which almost invariably end up on the lower end of the range.

[Blacksheep]

[quote="ben45750"]This is what you should have in your signature instead of claiming to be associated with CAD.

(EDITED)

No disrespect to the good rev., but that's some funny stuff right there.

again, yeah, but which company...may be looking to relocate