Driver Trainers and the $$$$

[kips41]

Talked to one of my friends who is still a trainer at my old company.

Now I know that the majority of drivers don't want to train or have the nerve for it. But here is what my friend has done it the last three weeks.
41 cents with trainee on truck

1st week ( 4 days ) 2100 miles = about $861.00 gross
2nd week 5700 miles = about $2331.00 gross
3rd week 6100 miles = about $2501.00 gross.

I guess there is still money to made in trucking.

[NevadaJim]

What company? How do they manage 6000+ miles a week and do any training?

[greg3564]

What company? How do they manage 6000+ miles a week and do any training?

They're "team training." The worst kind of training, if you can call it that.

[redsfan]

I wouldn't even call it training. It's called "team" plain and simple, there's no training going on period...

[Malaki86]

I wouldn't even call it training. It's called "team" plan and simple, there's no training going on period...

Sure there is - they're training you how to make yourself so tired that you can actually sleep in a rolling 80,000lb missle with a pilot with less than a weeks driving behind the wheel.

No thanks.

[Windwalker]

Seems like about a year ago or so that I was the one that first spoke out against the TEAM METHOD of training. (If there were others before that, I don't mean to "slight" you.) I'm glad to see so many others that agree with me. I would suggest that anyone on this board that is planning on going through school and becoming a driver, check on the companies method of training BEFORE you sign up with them. If their trainers run 6,000 miles a week, AVOID THEM.

If the trainer is not awake and alert while the trainee is driving, there is no training going on. The trainee may as well be in the truck all by himself/herself. Just give them the fuel cards, truck, load, and a day later, send out a flatbed to bring the wreckage home.

[kips41]

These miles are not hard to do when you load from cali to windy city and back or to atlanta and back.

Run 16 hours a day and have 8 for fuel, shower, eat and some time that both men can lay down with out the truck moving.

It's all about the type of trip and time management. Plus the trainee, some catch on real quick and others......you don't let them out of your sight for one second.

[Rev.Vassago]

Run 16 hours a day and have 8 for fuel, shower, eat and some time that both men can lay down with out the truck moving.

It's all about the type of trip and time management. Plus the trainee, some catch on real quick and others......you don't let them out of your sight for one second.

Then the trainer is violating his 14 hour rule, as all time spent supervising the trainee is ON DUTY (not driving), and 8 hours in the sleeper is 2 hours too few.

If the trainer is sleeping while the truck is moving, then he isn't training - he is teaming.

[NevadaJim]

This is a real rookie question. When there's 2 in the truck are the log books filled out any different than if solo? Do both have the same 14 hour requirement or are there any tweaks involved for teams.

[redsfan]

Yup, I agree with Rev, that would be a direct violation.

There's only one way you could run even remotely close to team during training and still be respectable in my book. That would be in a for instance that when the trainee hit his 11 hours of driving time and they still had an hour or so on the 14 hour clock and needed to make up a little time. Then the trainer could drive an hour or so to catch up a little. My personal opinion is that the trainee should spend 100% of the time in the driver's seat because he won't have the trainer's extra hour to bail him out once he gets in his own truck, but the above mentioned scenario might be acceptable.

I know when I was with Maverick, they were very strict about the trainee doing all of the driving minus maybe the first couple of hours or so to let the trainee observe. There was one trainer who did the exact thing above that I describe and the log department caught it. That trainer was reprimanded and all others were put on notice that this wasn't acceptable in their book. My trainer drove the first 100 miles or so and turned it over to me, then I drove every mile after that. He did the same thing with securement also, helped me on the first load or two and then supervised me the rest of the way. IMO, that's they way all companies should do it.

[driver67373]

Not necessarily true. The trainer can drive first, than the student can drive while the trainer is in the right seat. As long as you aren't driving, you can be in the on duty, non driving line as long as you want. It's perfectly legal to violate the 14 as long as you're on line 4 and you take a 10 hour break before you start driving again.

Run 16 hours a day and have 8 for fuel, shower, eat and some time that both men can lay down with out the truck moving.

It's all about the type of trip and time management. Plus the trainee, some catch on real quick and others......you don't let them out of your sight for one second.

Then the trainer is violating his 14 hour rule, as all time spent supervising the trainee is ON DUTY (not driving), and 8 hours in the sleeper is 2 hours too few.

If the trainer is sleeping while the truck is moving, then he isn't training - he is teaming.

[redsfan]

Not necessarily true. The trainer can drive first, than the student can drive while the trainer is in the right seat. As long as you aren't driving, you can be in the on duty, non driving line as long as you want. It's perfectly legal to violate the 14 as long as you're on line 4 and you take a 10 hour break before you start driving again.

Run 16 hours a day and have 8 for fuel, shower, eat and some time that both men can lay down with out the truck moving.

It's all about the type of trip and time management. Plus the trainee, some catch on real quick and others......you don't let them out of your sight for one second.

Then the trainer is violating his 14 hour rule, as all time spent supervising the trainee is ON DUTY (not driving), and 8 hours in the sleeper is 2 hours too few.

If the trainer is sleeping while the truck is moving, then he isn't training - he is teaming.

Nope, that still wouldn't work for the trainee, I agree it would with the trainer, but not the trainee. The trainee's 14 hour clock will start when the trainer starts driving. For them to run a 16 hour day with the trainer driving first, the trainee would be in violation of the 14 hour rule because he is still "driving" at the 15th and 16th hour. The only way that this could legally be done would be to run as a true "team".

The bottom line is that any company that allows, much less recommends, team training to go on has nothing on their mind, but revenue. The best interest of the trainee couldn't be farther from their mind. If they're pushing this sort of training my bet is that they'll be the same type of company to ask you to bend the logbook rules once you go solo. It's second rate all the way, no matter how you slice it.

[driver67373]

I don't know how it is with other companies, but at my company I did team train and it was a great learning experience. I was not simply left on my own while my trainer went to sleep. He would often sit in the other seat for an hour or two and teach, instruct, etc. And I would often times sit up there while he was driving and observe, let him teach me things. He was always there any time I had a question, it was ok to wake him up no matter what the situation was. He would always have me wake him up before I got to a shipper or a reciever if that fell on my shift, and he would sit up with me and help me with directions, help me check in, back into the dock etc. I was not left on my own, in fact I learned so much from him (I say him but I had two different trainers and they were both like this). The idea was that he would help me as much as I needed him and as I learned and grew more confident I started to wean off of him less and less until we were operating as a true team by the end of the training, with me still calling on him for help from time to time. I learned great through this and being allowed slowly to progress to becoming independent to the point where I was ready to solo. Again I don't know if other team trainers at other companeis are like this but that is how they do things at Prime and I know you fellas will say lots about Prime but I feel as far as their training goes it is great.

[redsfan]

This is a real rookie question. When there's 2 in the truck are the log books filled out any different than if solo? Do both have the same 14 hour requirement or are there any tweaks involved for teams.

Their both running their own 14 hour clock with one being in the sleeper while the other is on duty/driving. This way you could literally run around the clock as long as you don't run into having to reset your clock. One is rolling out of the bunk into the driver's seat and the other is doing vice versa.

In a true training evironment, both start their 14 hour clock at the same time with the trainer on duty or off duty the whole time and the trainee driving, on duty or off duty. They will both hit the sleeper at the same time according to their logbooks.

[driver67373]

No, no, no, don't make it more complicated than it has to be. The trainer drives his shift first, while the trainee is still in the sleeper birth. Than the trainer goes into line 4 on his log book, and the trainee goes into driving line 3 on his logbook. The trainee then drives his shift wile the trainer is on line 4 in the right seat.

Not necessarily true. The trainer can drive first, than the student can drive while the trainer is in the right seat. As long as you aren't driving, you can be in the on duty, non driving line as long as you want. It's perfectly legal to violate the 14 as long as you're on line 4 and you take a 10 hour break before you start driving again.

Run 16 hours a day and have 8 for fuel, shower, eat and some time that both men can lay down with out the truck moving.

It's all about the type of trip and time management. Plus the trainee, some catch on real quick and others......you don't let them out of your sight for one second.

Then the trainer is violating his 14 hour rule, as all time spent supervising the trainee is ON DUTY (not driving), and 8 hours in the sleeper is 2 hours too few.

If the trainer is sleeping while the truck is moving, then he isn't training - he is teaming.

Nope, that still wouldn't work for the trainee, I agree it would with the trainer, but not the trainee. The trainee's 14 hour clock will start when the trainer starts driving. For them to run a 16 hour day with the trainer driving first, the trainee would be in violation of the 14 hour rule because he is still "driving" at the 15th and 16th hour. The only way that this could legally be done would be to run as a true "team".

The bottom line is that any company that allows, much less recommends, team training to go on has nothing on their mind, but revenue. The best interest of the trainee couldn't be farther from their mind. If they're pushing this sort of training my bet is that they'll be the same type of company to ask you to bend the logbook rules once you go solo. It's second rate all the way, no matter how you slice it.

[glasman2]

I agree with redsfan.
driver67373 you can talk till your blue in the face, and I'll still agree with redsfan.

[redsfan]

I don't know how it is with other companies, but at my company I did team train and it was a great learning experience. I was not simply left on my own while my trainer went to sleep. He would often sit in the other seat for an hour or two and teach, instruct, etc. And I would often times sit up there while he was driving and observe, let him teach me things. He was always there any time I had a question, it was ok to wake him up no matter what the situation was. He would always have me wake him up before I got to a shipper or a reciever if that fell on my shift, and he would sit up with me and help me with directions, help me check in, back into the dock etc. I was not left on my own, in fact I learned so much from him (I say him but I had two different trainers and they were both like this). The idea was that he would help me as much as I needed him and as I learned and grew more confident I started to wean off of him less and less until we were operating as a true team by the end of the training, with me still calling on him for help from time to time. I learned great through this and being allowed slowly to progress to becoming independent to the point where I was ready to solo. Again I don't know if other team trainers at other companeis are like this but that is how they do things at Prime and I know you fellas will say lots about Prime but I feel as far as their training goes it is great.

Ok, and what happened if you did not have time wake him up before the question became a problem? If he woke you up as you were going into a shipper or receiver and it was in the middle of your 10 hour break, how did you log that?

Driver, you feel as if you had a good training experience and that's fine, but it doesn't make it right for everyone else to have to go through the same type of training. What you are describing here is exactly what we are talking about. It is not a training program, all they are teaching you is how to bend the rules if you are breaking them during training. A respecatble company wouldn't run this way and if this is the norm at Prime you are just giving all of the "Prime haters" more fodder. It's obvious that all they were thinking was hey, let's start a training program so we can double our revenue.

[redsfan]

No, no, no, don't make it more complicated than it has to be. The trainer drives his shift first, while the trainee is still in the sleeper birth. Than the trainer goes into line 4 on his log book, and the trainee goes into driving line 3 on his logbook. The trainee then drives his shift wile the trainer is on line 4 in the right seat.

And what you are describing here is a team operation. Not making it complicated at all. If the trainer starts his shift with the trainee still in the bunk or vice versa, that is what we call "team driving" in this industry. Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

[driver67373]

Well I suppose I forgot to mention the FOUR weeks of over the road CDL training where the guy was in the left seat every single hour I drove. That preceded the training and therefore when I was in the teaming phase I already knew how to drive the truck.

I don't know how it is with other companies, but at my company I did team train and it was a great learning experience. I was not simply left on my own while my trainer went to sleep. He would often sit in the other seat for an hour or two and teach, instruct, etc. And I would often times sit up there while he was driving and observe, let him teach me things. He was always there any time I had a question, it was ok to wake him up no matter what the situation was. He would always have me wake him up before I got to a shipper or a reciever if that fell on my shift, and he would sit up with me and help me with directions, help me check in, back into the dock etc. I was not left on my own, in fact I learned so much from him (I say him but I had two different trainers and they were both like this). The idea was that he would help me as much as I needed him and as I learned and grew more confident I started to wean off of him less and less until we were operating as a true team by the end of the training, with me still calling on him for help from time to time. I learned great through this and being allowed slowly to progress to becoming independent to the point where I was ready to solo. Again I don't know if other team trainers at other companeis are like this but that is how they do things at Prime and I know you fellas will say lots about Prime but I feel as far as their training goes it is great.

Ok, and what happened if you did not have time wake him up before the question became a problem? If he woke you up as you were going into a shipper or receiver and it was in the middle of your 10 hour break, how did you log that?

Driver, you feel as if you had a good training experience and that's fine, but it doesn't make it right for everyone else to have to go through the same type of training. What you are describing here is exactly what we are talking about. It is not a training program, all they are teaching you is how to bend the rules if you are breaking them during training. A respecatble company wouldn't run this way and if this is the norm at Prime you are just giving all of the "Prime haters" more fodder. It's obvious that all they were thinking was hey, let's start a training program so we can double our revenue.

[driver67373]

It's not true team because the trainer is still in the passenger seat on duty when the trainee is driving.

No, no, no, don't make it more complicated than it has to be. The trainer drives his shift first, while the trainee is still in the sleeper birth. Than the trainer goes into line 4 on his log book, and the trainee goes into driving line 3 on his logbook. The trainee then drives his shift wile the trainer is on line 4 in the right seat.

And what you are describing here is a team operation. Not making it complicated at all. If the trainer starts his shift with the trainee still in the bunk or vice versa, that is what we call "team driving" in this industry. Sorry, that dog don't hunt.